Passive socialism or impatient me??

[maya]

I'm a restless person, I move around a lot and don't stay in a place for more than about 1-2 years, hooking up with local leftists and making a difference.
But the last 3 years socialism seems to have gotten more passive. I've noticed a huge disconnect in socialist parties, between theory and action.

I just spent 6 months involved in a certain not-so-small socialist 'revolutionary' party, and 99% of the time consisted of:
1) Fundraising
2) Selling the newspaper, which mainly contained articles on the fundraising.

Needless to say, the fundraising was for political campaigns (that we will never, ever win) and to pay to have party members visit Cuba.

Terrific! Message we put out: give us money. Will we raise the roof?? No just spend it on trips around the world. And BTW reduce your carbon footprint!!

Has anyone else felt this? Is the life of socialist action being replaced by the slow surrender to 'democracy' waiting around like sheep to vote every few years??

[red cat]

What is your political line?

[maya]

Never really established that for certain. Maybe you can tell me ;)

Hastily written, but here is goes..

Back in the early 00s there was about 12 of us on and off and we had (IMHO) great success in building awareness of the need for socialism. We called ourselves an activist network, no 'parties' or anything like that. All action is political, after all, so no need to mention it. It was truly awesome. I've been trying to recreate stuff like that ever since, but ppl are just getting less and less interested.

We practiced entrantism into local nonprofits. I think of my guiding principle as 'down and dirty socialism', getting involved in as many things as possible to raise awareness and build institutions that are really grassroots.

Getting involved in nonprofits of all kinds, from thrifts to food vans.. everything. You'd be surprised how politically aware people can be. We'd even get elderly folk, ppl who the politicians think are sheep, active and aware.

Getting people engaged with thrilling, getting rallies together, meshing and building a community of people that had a reason to care again, and fight back.

The point is not to stand around on a street corner with a headline saying 'Support Cuba!' or whatever. If I wanted to stand around selling newspapers until the revolution came, I'd be a LaRouchite.

No elections. They are always rigged, whatever party gets in because they don't run the show, the public servants do. Put pressure on the public servants and elected officials. Running in elections means doing deals with them. You need leverage.

Talk to people, ask them DO YOU HATE POVERTY? No? GOOD! DO YOU HATE BANKERS MAKING THE $$$? No? GOOD! So here is what we do, this is how you can help! We presented a program, not a 'socialist program', just a program of action (which happened to be socialist). We'd work from there.

So many people think when you say 'socialist' you want to setup gulags or something. Better to avoid the labels and get straight to the point.

Socialism as action, not as words. We didn't want to make a revolution in the sense of storming the capital, but by raising up politically aware institutions at all levels to challenge the government.

Sorry for the rant. But is there anywhere around (anywhere on the planet!) where people are still attacking from the grassroots, and not sitting around waiting for doomsday??

[Kléber]

No elections. They are always rigged, whatever party gets in because they don't run the show, the public servants do. Put pressure on the public servants and elected officials. Running in elections means doing deals with them. You need leverage.Making deals with liberal officials can fuck your organization up. There are many examples of revolutionary parties successfully using the electoral system (even when elected) as a propaganda platform, without reformist illusions.

Are you talking about Socialist Action? I once worked with a group that had its origins in SA, it was weird. If I had to support any group it would be the ICFI (http://www.wsws.org).

[maya]

A certain Marxist party that is fond of disciplining its members with fake tribunals. I will not speak its name on this forum, as I still have contacts there.

They have had members elected in the past, and they've gone right off the deep end trying to get more elected. Practically prostituting their political platform right now with elections in 3 months, making all sorts of back room deals that get 'ratified' in branch meetings. Marx would be pissed.

And are the only socialist group in the smallish town I'm in right now :(

[red cat]

Never really established that for certain. Maybe you can tell me ;)

Hastily written, but here is goes..

Back in the early 00s there was about 12 of us on and off and we had (IMHO) great success in building awareness of the need for socialism. We called ourselves an activist network, no 'parties' or anything like that. All action is political, after all, so no need to mention it. It was truly awesome. I've been trying to recreate stuff like that ever since, but ppl are just getting less and less interested.

We practiced entrantism into local nonprofits. I think of my guiding principle as 'down and dirty socialism', getting involved in as many things as possible to raise awareness and build institutions that are really grassroots.

Getting involved in nonprofits of all kinds, from thrifts to food vans.. everything. You'd be surprised how politically aware people can be. We'd even get elderly folk, ppl who the politicians think are sheep, active and aware.

Getting people engaged with thrilling, getting rallies together, meshing and building a community of people that had a reason to care again, and fight back.

The point is not to stand around on a street corner with a headline saying 'Support Cuba!' or whatever. If I wanted to stand around selling newspapers until the revolution came, I'd be a LaRouchite.

No elections. They are always rigged, whatever party gets in because they don't run the show, the public servants do. Put pressure on the public servants and elected officials. Running in elections means doing deals with them. You need leverage.

Talk to people, ask them DO YOU HATE POVERTY? No? GOOD! DO YOU HATE BANKERS MAKING THE $$$? No? GOOD! So here is what we do, this is how you can help! We presented a program, not a 'socialist program', just a program of action (which happened to be socialist). We'd work from there.

So many people think when you say 'socialist' you want to setup gulags or something. Better to avoid the labels and get straight to the point.

Socialism as action, not as words. We didn't want to make a revolution in the sense of storming the capital, but by raising up politically aware institutions at all levels to challenge the government.

Sorry for the rant. But is there anywhere around (anywhere on the planet!) where people are still attacking from the grassroots, and not sitting around waiting for doomsday??We have quite a few movements in the third world.

[RedRise]

In places such as America or Australia it is hard for lefty/commie/socialist groups to do anything outstanding. Still, I agree that getting everybody to fundraise, fundraise, fundraise is not the best idea as it gives the pole opposite of the communist message: money, money, money. Also, in the places that do not suffer extremely from capitalism people are lazy about doing anything about it. Good luck anyway!

[maya]

@Scarlowy, it all depends what you mean by outstanding :)

Socialism works only when people are politically engaged. The ruling class want politics rationed to a election every so-often. I always think. one more politically engaged person, one person closer to socialism.

[red cat]

@Scarlowy, it all depends what you mean by outstanding :)

Socialism works only when people are politically engaged. The ruling class want politics rationed to a election every so-often. I always think. one more politically engaged person, one person closer to socialism.Wow! You're looking for really militant kind of stuff. :)

[maya]

red cat: I'll take that as a compliment :)

Militancy does imply violence, and I'm not about that. Guns will get you nowhere - look at the US Army in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Its a battle of the hearts and minds.

But I found vacuum cleaner salesfolk more committed to selling their product, than a lot of socialists are to spreading socialist ideas. That really troubles me.

[Q]

Militancy does imply violence, and I'm not about that. Guns will get you nowhere - look at the US Army in Iraq and Afghanistan.
When socialists or trade unionists talk about "militant" they refer to activism, the most active political layers of the working class movement. I has nothing to do with guerrilla war or somesuch.

[maya]

When socialists or trade unionists talk about "militant" they refer to activism, the most active political layers of the working class movement. I has nothing to do with guerrilla war or somesuch.

I've always heard it used in connection with the less peaceful demonstrators, esp. by the MSM. But I much prefer the definition you gave :)

[Q]

I've always heard it used in connection with the less peaceful demonstrators, esp. by the MSM. But I much prefer the definition you gave :)

The English section (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_of_England_and_Wales) of the CWI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_for_a_Workers'_International) for example used to be called Militant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militant_tendency) until the early 1990's and they chose that name because of this connotation.

[red cat]

red cat: I'll take that as a compliment :)

Militancy does imply violence, and I'm not about that. Guns will get you nowhere - look at the US Army in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Its a battle of the hearts and minds.

But I found vacuum cleaner salesfolk more committed to selling their product, than a lot of socialists are to spreading socialist ideas. That really troubles me.
In large parts of the world today, the masses have but two choices before them; either liberation or death. So they have to fight a war; a war qualitatively different from what the US mercenaries are doing in the occupied lands.

[maya]

Thanks Q for the background! History has always been a weakness of mine.


In large parts of the world today, the masses have but two choices before them; either liberation or death. So they have to fight a war; a war qualitatively different from what the US mercenaries are doing in the occupied lands.

How to make this struggle real for people esp. socialists living in subdivisions of the world not directly affected, to make socialism a lifestyle instead of a Saturday afternoon activity?

I despise religions: they make and something 'real' that does not exist. People leave the services, talking about how they felt god, or god touched them. They go home, turn on the TV: the wars cease being real, become phantoms projected between the 'real news' and the weather.

The dream becomes real, the real becomes a dream. But I guess I'm preaching to the converted here already ;)

BTW is there a militant tendency on this site?

[Q]

Thanks Q for the background! History has always been a weakness of mine.
No problem ;)


BTW is there a militant tendency on this site?
If you mean the tendency I linked to you earlier, that is the Committee for a Workers' International (http://www.socialistworld.net/) and we have a usergroup (http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=100) here aswell.

[revolution inaction]

I'm a restless person, I move around a lot and don't stay in a place for more than about 1-2 years, hooking up with local leftists and making a difference.
But the last 3 years socialism seems to have gotten more passive. I've noticed a huge disconnect in socialist parties, between theory and action.

I just spent 6 months involved in a certain not-so-small socialist 'revolutionary' party, and 99% of the time consisted of:
1) Fundraising
2) Selling the newspaper, which mainly contained articles on the fundraising.

Needless to say, the fundraising was for political campaigns (that we will never, ever win) and to pay to have party members visit Cuba.

Terrific! Message we put out: give us money. Will we raise the roof?? No just spend it on trips around the world. And BTW reduce your carbon footprint!!

Has anyone else felt this? Is the life of socialist action being replaced by the slow surrender to 'democracy' waiting around like sheep to vote every few years??


It sounds like your problem isn't with socialism itself but more with a certain kind of "socialism". What you've said about your time in that organisation sounds like what lots of exmembers of various leninist organisation report.
Have you ever looked into anarchism? from what you say it sounds like it may interest you.

[cyu]

I'm a restless person, I move around a lot and don't stay in a place for more than about 1-2 years

If you like to move around a lot, sounds like this might be right up your alley: http://www.iww.org/organize/strategy/salt.shtml



Is the life of socialist action being replaced by the slow surrender to 'democracy' waiting around like sheep to vote every few years??


You might consider this from http://www.revleft.com/vb/weapons-mass-deception-t120176/index.html

1. Take some event in which you feel the local media is only reporting the views of the ruling class (maybe when a strike happens, maybe when there's a protest, maybe there's some event the media totally omits). Organize a largish group of activists to simply walk into your local news room, bring a list of the points you want to make, then stand in front of the camera while they are trying to film and make your points - keep doing it until the points you are making are getting fair play in the local media.

2. Repeat step 1 until it's fairly common. Then move on to a schedule in which activists are regularly assuming democratic control of your local media outlet for maybe 1 day a week, 1 week a month, etc.

3. As step 2 becomes fairly common, move on to advocate full employee democracy and community democracy for the policies and governance of your local media.

[maya]

It sounds like your problem isn't with socialism itself but more with a certain kind of "socialism". What you've said about your time in that organisation sounds like what lots of exmembers of various leninist organisation report.
Have you ever looked into anarchism? from what you say it sounds like it may interest you.

Yes it is leninist, how could you tell? :)
I've always worked with whoever is available and committed to our cause, be in leninist, maoist or social democrat. So far I've tried to avoid labeling myself anything more than socialist.

[QUOTE]If you like to move around a lot, sounds like this might be right up your alley:/QUOTE]I like the IWW a lot, and didn't know about this. Thanks for the link!