Africans mouths padlocked shut

[Frantz Fanon]

I recently had a talk with a black comrade, he is very soft spoken and articulate, but as soon as racism is discussed he loses all rationale and becomes verry aggresive, and having recently talked to him on the issue of race and revolution in Africa, he said he feels that no white man should be able to participate in revolution there because of the way european marxists stood by while their country raped all of africas, and feels that communism spouted liberal rhetoric during the colonial era, but failed to fight against it, just denounce it while profiting from the colonies.
He said, when the white man was piercing the negros lips and padlocking them shut, where was communism, when negros were starved till they became zombie slave workers, where was communism, he says when the black man in britain today is called nigger or attacked, he is told to stop playing the race card, and what do communists do, they wave banners saying the working class need to unite, but most first world workers are racist.

Can you understand his anger, or do you think he is being irrationale and not understanding that communism was not strong enough to take the imperialist powers head on.

Would just like to know how comrades feel.

[Drace]

What does communism have to do with the existence of racism and the harsh conditions in Africa?

[red cat]

Sadly, since a large portion of the people who are projected as communists do nothing but propose absurd theories and slander former socialist states, this is the image of communism that an average black worker will have.

MLM teaches us to stand by the oppressed, to fight for them, to bring them into the fight concerning every social contradiction and gradually escalate it to a class-war.

I find many "revolutionaries" here posting nonsense about national liberation movements and about "not supporting them". What would the racially oppressed minorities think of them? Any such "communist" who dares to travel to the third-world and asks these people to stop fighting for national liberation is most likely to get a solid flogging from the masses. Precisely this is why no left-communist or Trotskyist is ever seen in the third world where the all the fighting is taking place. All we can hear about them is about meetings of, say, a few dozen guys in some place a "few weeks ago".

[the last donut of the night]

Sadly, since a large portion of the people who are projected as communists do nothing but propose absurd theories and slander former socialist states, this is the image of communism that an average black worker will have.

MLM teaches us to stand by the oppressed, to fight for them, to bring them into the fight concerning every social contradiction and gradually escalate it to a class-war.

I find many "revolutionaries" here posting nonsense about national liberation movements and about "not supporting them". What would the racially oppressed minorities think of them? Any such "communist" who dares to travel to the third-world and asks these people to stop fighting for national liberation is most likely to get a solid flogging from the masses. Precisely this is why no left-communist or Trotskyist is ever seen in the third world where the all the fighting is taking place. All we can hear about them is about meetings of, say, a few dozen guys in some place a "few weeks ago".


Could you honestly let a person learn, instead of setting up another massively unnecessary tendency war?

Like, what the hell?

It isn't merely MLM that contains all the truth in the world, cowboy. Maybe it's people like you -- along with some left-communists, trots -- who cripple the left, making it into a collection of little clubs known as sects, and prevent us all from getting a better life.


Jeez, so annoying....:thumbdown:

[Kléber]

Lenin was very favorable to revolutions in the colonial world. However, the Popular Front policy of collaborating with imperialists meant the betrayal of the revolution in Africa, India and Southeast Asia among other places because imperialist Britain and France temporarily became "people's allies." Stalin's dissolution of the Comintern freed the European Communist Parties from international control, which facilitated the despicable betrayals of the Algerian and Indochinese peoples by the PCF. That counter-revolutionary policy, anti-internationalist is representative not of Leninism or communism, but the revisionist Stalin clique.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

I'm a little confused by what is being projected here. Is the fellow mentioned in the original post asserting that whites have no role in liberation movements in the third world? Perhaps I'm getting the wrong impression, but if that's the case I think it's irrational to passively assert that all white comrades should not even try to get involved when they could be and sometimes have been formidable allies.

As to the separate issue of whether or not communists in the West should eschew national liberation movements in general, that's a different issue. I personally think nationalist movements can be progressive in certain situations.

[RedSonRising]

Racism is a prevalent social issue that many minorities, particularly the demonized African American population, have become sensitive and reactionary to. The way to deconstruct the aggressive, sometimes "counter-racist" mentality among discontented victims of racism is to try and establish a world-view that consists of class-based analysis at its core; divisions of power in relation to means of production and political institutions, not race. The ruling class propagates racism, as it is in their interest to establish such norms, and one has to move beyond black-white binary thinking (not that race-based division doesn't exist, it is simply the wrong question with no solvent answer) to understand how oppression is caused by the current class-based hierarchical power structure.

[Kléber]

Look who's stuck in some 1950's vision of "Stalinism".Judging by the OP's name (ever read Wretched of the Earth?) he was referring to the 1930's-50's period when the CPs were indeed betraying Asia and Africa.


However its the Trotskyists who have been *****ing and keep *****ing about everyone else right from the time of Trotsky until the present moment.If we are so inconsequential then why don't you stop complaining about us? If our movement was doomed from the start, why was it necessary to murder our leaders to make sure?

[Kléber]

last I checked we're no longer in the 50's.
Last I checked this isnt Franco Spain where you can spout anti intellectual bullshit and get taken seriously.


what relevance does Trotskyism have ... ?Interesting, the first hit when you google "Trotskyism relevance" is a pro-Trotsky statement by the Nepalese Maoists.

[red cat]

Last I checked this isnt Franco Spain where you can spout anti intellectual bullshit and get taken seriously.

Interesting, the first hit when you google "Trotskyism relevance" is a pro-Trotsky statement by the Nepalese Maoists.Has any such statement been approved by the majority of their CC ?

Maoists agree on the fact that any kind of opportunism can arise within the party, even from the most dedicated of leaders. The duty of the party as a whole is to rectify such opportunistic errors.

[Kléber]

OK so joining a capitalist government isn't opportunistic, but giving the founder of the Red Army his due is. :lol:

[red cat]

OK so joining a capitalist government isn't opportunistic, but giving the founder of the Red Army his due is. :lol:

He got his due in 1940.

As long as the organs of peoples' power remain, the UCPN(M) can adopt any tactic to defend the revolution.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Can you understand his anger, or do you think he is being irrationale and not understanding that communism was not strong enough to take the imperialist powers head on.

Would just like to know how comrades feel.

Of course I understand his anger.
communists weren't and aren't strong enough to take on a lot of powers that we nevertheless challenge
have we as a whole been negligent of racism?
yes, absolutely

[the last donut of the night]

*****ing

Don't use that word.

[Frantz Fanon]

THANKS FOR GETTING US BACK ON TOPIC man

[the last donut of the night]

It's been less than 24 hours since the first post was posted in this thread, and this has already been turned into a tendency war.


What an accurate representation of the left.

[the last donut of the night]

To the OP: tell your friend that comrade Guevara, a white Argentinian, fought in the jungles of the Congo with African comrades.

[Kléber]

He got his due in 1940.
Are you threatening me?

[Bloody Kalashnikov]

i can overstand such resentment for sure, but it is up to Africans to create revolution in Africa, no one else can or should, it would undermine the african proletariat to assume they are not capable of fighting capitalism imperialism themselves.

[Kléber]

Bloody Kalashnikov: Obviously the African proletariat must liberate itself, but I believe he was referring to events like when the French Communist Party voted in favor of imperialist repression in West Africa and Southeast Asia.

Funny how when I talk about the betrayal of oppressed peoples in the 30's, 40's, and 50's, the Stalinists scream "BUT THAT WAS ALL THE WAY BACK IN THE 1950'S!" since if I mention anything counter-revolutionary the Soviet government did after the 50's it turns into "BUT THAT WAS THE REVISIONISTS!" Seems like somebody is in denial.