On Obama's Hate Crime Bill

[Invincible Summer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abCxHGa8TaQ



My friend had this to say:


I've heard that argument before, and I understand what people mean. But how many people are murdered because they're rich? Or beautiful? When was the last time you turned on the news and saw that someone was murdered because of being short? There never was a movement for short people (dwarves are another thing); "beautiful" people never rioted because they had less rights than average people ("Oh those poor, rich people. Whenever will they get equality?" wtf?). Throughout history, minority groups have very clearly faced tons more discrimination, so his point is moot.

Statistically speaking, people who aren't straight and white have higher rates of assault and murder. Why not protect those people?

If I sleep with your girlfriend and you kill me for it, it's murder. I pissed someone off enough to want to kill me. But if I'm walking down the street, minding my own business, and I get killed simply because I exist and am gay, how should that be the same? It's not fair because it's not JUST murder, and people need to recognize this....


Thoughts? I see where the video is coming from, but minority groups do need something to fight off the oppression they face, even if it's handed down from the state

[bcbm]

how does sending people to jail for longer periods thereby strengthening a prison industry that largely targets minorities and (if this is the bill i'm thinking of) increasing funding to police forces that are, by and large, racist, homophobic, sexist, transphobic institutions fight off oppression faced by minority groups?

[h0m0revolutionary]

how does sending people to jail for longer periods thereby strengthening a prison industry that largely targets minorities and (if this is the bill i'm thinking of) increasing funding to police forces that are, by and large, racist, homophobic, sexist, transphobic institutions fight off oppression faced by minority groups?

Agreed. Hate Crome does ntohing but set up the state as the only mechanism through which justice can be served. In doing so it invalidates all it's own racism and discrimmination and acts as an amoral arbiter in which cases of racial prejudice are remedied.

Not only does this involve support for the prison industial complez, police and prosecuters, but the whole logic is warped. If I am attacked because of my skin colour, it's sickening, but trying my attacks once for the attack and then again because I, the victim, am ethnic is crazy. Try them twice goes this logic, and they won't be racist 0_o

[Invincible Summer]

Good points, bcbm and h0m0.


I think a problem with identity politics is that by asserting a group's identity, the group indirectly aids in their oppression by possibly reinforcing stereotypes and images associated with said group.

So a LGBT/black women/etc group asserts themselves as a group that represents their respective populations. This aids the creation of difference, which can be argued to be a good/bad thing. On one hand, we cannot treat minorities exactly the same as non-minorities due to their inherent inequality and oppression (as you rightly said); on the other hand, basing a group's identity on how they are *different* seems to work in opposition to the fight for social and economic equality. Black women want social and economic as a doubly-oppressed minority group (black + woman), but not necessarily because it's something that should be a given for every single person.

However, it's possible that by exacerbating identity difference by demanding "special" rights (for the lack of a better term), it is possible that discrimination can *increase*....

[x359594]

...Hate Crome does ntohing but set up the state as the only mechanism through which justice can be served. In doing so it invalidates all it's own racism and discrimmination and acts as an amoral arbiter in which cases of racial prejudice are remedied...

From the liberal/statist view, the law (in theory) acts as a deterrent to the crime to which it's addressed; thus, a hate crimes law will deter hate crimes. Of course we know better, but for those covered by the law it has a psychological significance, it's somehow empowering. We really can't ignore the subjective factor in politics of this sort.

[gorillafuck]

From the liberal/statist view, the law (in theory) acts as a deterrent to the crime to which it's addressed; thus, a hate crimes law will deter hate crimes.
Is it known how well have hate crime laws done in deterring hate crime?