Why is it that......?

[ComradeMan]

.... when people attack religion it is nearly always Christianity that comes under fire, when in theory, at least, if not in practice, the "Jesus philosophy" has been described as the first expression of communism by some? I am not talking about the Vatican, the established church, crusades and the like but the words of the founder.

If we look at another religion, say Hinduism, with its systems of castes is that not far more worthy of criticism in terms of a class struggle? A religion by whose very doctrines condemns millions of people to classes without their ever being able to move up or down, or out without facing alienation from their society. It's easy to say that one can simply stop practicing that religion but man is by nature a social animal and the pressures of family and society often outweigh ideological advantages.

I am not targetting Hinduism, just using it as one example.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Well if we lived in India then we probably would be criticizing Hindu nationalism more than right-wing evangelicalism. I've known some Indian socialists as well as some socialists whose family came from India and they've blown my mind talking about religious bigotry there.

I think mostly when we talk about religion we are talking about it in a materialist and political way. So while I think probably every major religion has some communal value and many religions condemn inequality (this is a large part of their appeal), we also look at how organized religion as a political force works in society.

Revolutionary theology people talk about Jesus the anti-imperialist fighting the empire and condemning it's homegrown collaborators; right-wing christian organizations in the US talk about Jesus as some kind of moral judge who determines who is saved and who is damned based on how well you as an individual follow strict christian values.

The real issue isn't Jesus, it's the politics.

[red cat]

Well if we lived in India then we probably would be criticizing Hindu nationalism more than right-wing evangelicalism. Agreed.

But a global forum like this one should have critiques of all religions.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Agreed.

But a global forum like this one should have critiques of all religions.

I agree, but personally I don't know enough about Hindu nationalism or the role of religion in other regions to talk about it with any authority. I know more about the US christian right because it's sort of an unavoidable fact of politics in the US. I don't know much about Christianity in modern Europe or the role of Judaism in Israel and its use by Zionists or much about Hindu nationalism simply because I'm not exposed to it as much.

I'd be useful to find out more though.

[Dean]

.... when people attack religion it is nearly always Christianity that comes under fire, when in theory, at least, if not in practice, the "Jesus philosophy" has been described as the first expression of communism by some? I am not talking about the Vatican, the established church, crusades and the like but the words of the founder.

If we look at another religion, say Hinduism, with its systems of castes is that not far more worthy of criticism in terms of a class struggle? A religion by whose very doctrines condemns millions of people to classes without their ever being able to move up or down, or out without facing alienation from their society. It's easy to say that one can simply stop practicing that religion but man is by nature a social animal and the pressures of family and society often outweigh ideological advantages.

I am not targetting Hinduism, just using it as one example.

Hinduism has some progressive elements. And christianity has some reactionary ones. I am very wary of categorically dismissing or accepting any religious tendency, since the religion of a people tend to be a summation of various cultural, economic and social values.

It seems very evident to me that Jesus, as a character in Christianity, was a revolutionary egalitarian who absolutely allied himself with the lower class. But that is not to say that Christianity as a whole can really be described that way; contemporary Christianity is by and large a reactionary, upper-class ideology.

In any case, this ought to be moved to "religion." I'll contact a global mod.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Dean, this needs moviong to Religion, I think.

[Dean]

Dean, this needs moviong to Religion, I think.

I agree. But as a local mod I can't do that, so I've contacted AW in the hopes that he'll do it :)

[The Ungovernable Farce]

It's perfectly simple: most of us live in states where Christianity is the dominant religion, and those states among the most powerful in the world, so that's the one we encounter the material effects of most often. If we were Israelis, our anti-theism would start with the rejection of Judaism, and if we were Jamaican our anti-theism would probably start opposition to Rastafarianism. I don't think there's some socialistic "essence of Christianity" that's worth trying to rescue: the New Testament has some egalitarian passages, but it also contains repulsively misogynist shit, to give just one example. If you have the time for a fairly lengthy read, Bakunin's God and the State (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_archives/bakunin/godandstate/godandstate_ch1.html) is an excellent demolition of how Christianity and socialism are incompatible opposites (which, of course, is not to deny that there have been sincere socialists who were Christians; there have been, but their ideas were completely contradictory).

[ComradeMan]

I see the points, but we do need to have a world view on things... no man is an island and all that...

As an anarchist I like the idea of an ungovernable farce.... :D

[Decolonize The Left]

.... when people attack religion it is nearly always Christianity that comes under fire, when in theory, at least, if not in practice, the "Jesus philosophy" has been described as the first expression of communism by some? I am not talking about the Vatican, the established church, crusades and the like but the words of the founder.

There are two issues here.

The first is that Christianity comes under fire more often than not because most individuals on this forum reside in an area which is predominantly influenced by Christianity. Hence it makes sense to attack that which one is most familiar with and best understands.

The second is that the "Jesus philosophy" is in no way distinct from the actions of the established Church and followers. The Bible has been translated and changed countless times - there is no way to seriously claim that the words printed in the Bible were actually those of Jesus Christ (if he even existed). The "Jesus philosophy" is therefore a relatively meaningless term as one cannot pinpoint any exact elucidation of his meaning. The meaning of the entire Christian tradition is relative to who is speaking at what time - Tolstoy had a different idea than the Pope, who is right, if any?


If we look at another religion, say Hinduism, with its systems of castes is that not far more worthy of criticism in terms of a class struggle? A religion by whose very doctrines condemns millions of people to classes without their ever being able to move up or down, or out without facing alienation from their society. It's easy to say that one can simply stop practicing that religion but man is by nature a social animal and the pressures of family and society often outweigh ideological advantages.

I am not targetting Hinduism, just using it as one example.

One can analyze a caste system via a materialist perspective, but this is secondary (I believe re: the topic at hand) to the critique of religion as is. The anti-theist, or the vocal atheist, are not concerned with one religion vs. another, rather, they are concerned with the situation of religion as a whole on our planet: they way it encourages individuals to think, act, react, judge, etc...

- August

[spiltteeth]

Another reason has to do with media, Christianity gets alot of coverage in the Bourgeois media, such as fox, particularly fundamentalist christianity; plus the US pretty much runs the world, and it's leaders hypocritically hide behind there very pious christian beliefs while making war and grabbing power.

[Comrade Anarchist]

The reason is b/c it is the most prominent in the world. When it comes to a global scale christianity is second only to islam in the market on bat shit crazy people. It is the biggest so more people believe so attacking the biggest religion allows atheists to be heard by a larger audience.

[Plagueround]

.... when people attack religion it is nearly always Christianity that comes under fire, when in theory, at least, if not in practice, the "Jesus philosophy" has been described as the first expression of communism by some?


I think Bertrand Russell, amongst others, smashed this one nicely. Christ's philosophy was about not being concerned about this life because a "better one" awaited you and had little to do with those that seek to improve conditions in the here and now.

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

Here is the greatest objection to Jesus' philosophy ever:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9r7fz_turn-the-other-cheek_fun