Do physical punishments work?

[the last donut of the night]

Basically, does violence -- in limited amounts, such as weak slaps, for example -- still work as an educational model for little children?

As someone who regularly teaches kindergartners, I know how the teacher's frustration can rise to astronomical levels depending on her/his students' behaviours.

Is it really ethical to inflict corporal punishments? Furthermore, does it even work as an educational tool?

P.S: Sorry if this isn't in the right forum. I presume it could also be in the Discrimination Forum, as this issue can connect to ageism.

[Pierson's]

it doesn't matter if it 'works' or not, it isn't acceptable. yes, teachers can get frustrated. but if they get so frustrated that they want to start using violence against their charges, then they should be teaching. get them out of the class room, and get someone who can actually educate without violence, in.

[Sentinel]

Basically, does violence -- in limited amounts, such as weak slaps, for example -- still work as an educational model for little children?

Absolutely not. What corporal punishment teaches children is that it's okay to use violence to get it your way as opposed to rational argumentation. I don't think it's right to ask if it still works, as it really never has.

To put it short, it's not only despicable but also utterly counter-productive.

[the last donut of the night]

Thanks everybody.

Please don't think I advocate it, I was just curious.

[Demogorgon]

You will often find when adults practice corporal punishment agaisnt children, they are just outing their own frustration. It would be rather better for everyone if they got a stressball or something.

At best corporal punishment is going to have no positive effect, at worst it is going to damage the child psychologically and sometimes physically. It is true that a light slap is unlikely to do lasting harm, but it won't achieve anything either. More serious physical punishment can only cause serious harm.

And certainly, all evidence shows that children who are not physically punished actually behave better.

[Luisrah]

What about this?

Your kid hits another kid. It hurts him and he starts crying.

You tell the other kid to hit your kid so that he will understand how it hurts, and how he shouldn't do it again.

I'd say that *atleast* isn't so bad.
It's not the same as hitting him for spilling milk, or because he annoyed you a little bit, and you were frustrated and hit him.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

You have to quantify "work." Physical punishment might stop the child from doing whatever it is you are are smacking him/her for, but it also contributes to other unforeseeable consequences, the most obvious of which is an acceptance of the idea that resolving issues through pain is okay.

In fact I wonder if boys are dealt more punishment through this manner than girls, which would explain a lot.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

Yeah, it works, and I don't mind seeing it used in certain situations, as there are a lot of adolescent 20-somethings running around who could use a good ass whooping to make them respect things. It's entirely different from kindergartners as well as life in general, but having spent a very limited amount of time at Parris Island, I can tell you corporal punishment can certainly have an effect at whipping people into what you want them to be (with a couple suicides to boot). So I would definitely say it can be effective in certain applications.

That said, drunken dad beating his kid for some nonsense doesn't accomplish anything but fuck the kid up psychologically, and no kid should be exposed to anything of the sort at school. Now, with that said a parent using corporal punishment on their own child walks a fine line between punishment and abuse, and I for one believe that, in some cases, CPS rips families apart for far too little while at other times allowing children to stay in abusive homes.

[New Tet]

Yeah, it works, and I don't mind seeing it used in certain situations, as there are a lot of adolescent 20-somethings running around who could use a good ass whooping to make them respect things. It's entirely different from kindergartners as well as life in general, but having spent a very limited amount of time at Parris Island, I can tell you corporal punishment can certainly have an effect at whipping people into what you want them to be (with a couple suicides to boot). So I would definitely say it can be effective in certain applications.

That said, drunken dad beating his kid for some nonsense doesn't accomplish anything but fuck the kid up psychologically, and no kid should be exposed to anything of the sort at school. Now, with that said a parent using corporal punishment on their own child walks a fine line between punishment and abuse, and I for one believe that, in some cases, CPS rips families apart for far too little while at other times allowing children to stay in abusive homes.

I would agree except that my experience in Navy basic training was completely devoid of physical aggression from Recruit commanders. Any sort of violence (outside the actually "violence" of combat training), including the legendary "blanket party", was strictly forbidden and severely punished by expulsion (in the case of recruits) or other disciplinary action.

Moreover, humiliating and corporal punishments were not allowed. I witnessed a recruit company commander be removed from his responsibilities because he had a recruit run around a tree flapping his arms and tweeting like a fucking bird for committing a petty infraction.

The U.S. Navy has its own prison system, referred to as the brig. The rules of behavior and interaction are very strict. Detainees are not allowed to sing, whistle, shake hands among themselves or with guards or touch anyone. They are forbidden from complaining in any way except in writing. Even harassment from the guards, if proven, is a big no-no.

While waiting for orders in San Diego, I was posted to work in the brig where I witnessed an OIC be removed because he called three riot drills in the span of an hour, at night, when the men where in bed. Almost every single motherfucker held there sat down to fill out complaint chits. The next day that ensign was out with a reprimand. Bad start for that idiot, I think.

Yeah, I know the U.S. Marines have a bad reputation for abusing their recruits, but they've cleaned up their act substantially since the end of the Vietnam war. The U.S. Marines, except maybe for the top brass, is composed of the dumbest, meanest motherfuckers that can be trained to shoot at the enemy without killing their own commanders.

The discipline for soldiering and war is very different from the discipline we need for peaceful, daily life. A slap and kick will make someone mad enough to kill but not ashamed enough to behave well.

[ComradeMan]

Yeah, it works, and I don't mind seeing it used in certain situations, as there are a lot of adolescent 20-somethings running around who could use a good ass whooping to make them respect things. It's entirely different from kindergartners as well as life in general, but having spent a very limited amount of time at Parris Island, I can tell you corporal punishment can certainly have an effect at whipping people into what you want them to be (with a couple suicides to boot). So I would definitely say it can be effective in certain applications.

That said, drunken dad beating his kid for some nonsense doesn't accomplish anything but fuck the kid up psychologically, and no kid should be exposed to anything of the sort at school. Now, with that said a parent using corporal punishment on their own child walks a fine line between punishment and abuse, and I for one believe that, in some cases, CPS rips families apart for far too little while at other times allowing children to stay in abusive homes.


If you need to use violence to teach respect that you may need to question what you are asking someone to respect. We all have violence within ourselves and we are all human. I think we have all been in situations in which we have reacted violently, at school for example, and on hindsight would admit that it didn't solve anything.

I think that the only violence that can be justified is that of self-defence unless you are Christ-like and turn the other cheek.

I would also qualify this with the difference between forcefully grabbing a child who is about to stick their fingers into the electric socket and telling them off and coercion in the true sense.

However, physical violence does work as a means of psychologically traumatising people and taking human beings and turning them into killing machines. Armies have been doing it for centuries.

Just because something is bad does not mean it does not work. But do we want the end product?

[Technocrat]

It works to create more subservient individuals. It also works to create more violent individuals - those who are abused typically suffer from abusive tendencies themselves. It doesn't work to create self-motivated, curious, and independent individuals.

[pastradamus]

I've had many experiences of Physical Violence which have been used as an attempt to discipline me. Growing up, my parents never physically hit me - ever, and so I still have huge amounts of respect for them. If I did something wrong they'd explain to me why it was wrong and so id learn out of my respect for them.

When I was at school I got the living shit kicked outta me by a member of the church for the most trivial of small mistakes. This could amount to a spelling error. All that this Individual achieved was to create an extremely anti-clerical, rebellious and utterly tempermental person out of me. I went from the best student in the class to one of the trouble making ones in the space of a few months. Corporal and psycological punishment does not work. You encourage individuals to achieve by being polite and respectful - this makes them work from their own pride rather than out of fear.

[Dr Mindbender]

Reward good behaviour and ignore the bad behaviour.

Too many parents have the tendency to favour the stick over the carrot in chastising their children.

[Luisrah]

All that this Individual achieved was to create an extremely anti-clerical, rebellious and utterly tempermental person out of me.
That wasn't actually soo bad :D

[pastradamus]

That wasn't actually soo bad :D

Haha, Yeah! But my point was that the guy didnt exactly win me over!:lol: