Nick Griffin to contest Barking seat

[K.Bullstreet]

As I'm sure many of you will have heard, Nick Griffin is going to be contesting the Barking constituency in East London in the general election. From what they've said, they're going to be putting a lot of time and resources into campaigning in the area (more than any other election campaign apparently). They have two MEPs, but what they really need (and want) to constitute as a 'breakthrough' is an MP. I think they feel this is a winnable seat, or at least somewhere where they could have a big impact. It's a testing ground as such, and will no doubt be used as a trophy to show what they can achieve if they're succesful.

The Barking & Dagenham constituency is where Barnbrook is a councillor, so there is some strong BNP support there. East London has a proud radical and anti-fascist tradition, anarchists need to get out there and reclaim this tradition. We have plenty of prior warning, so a local & grassroots working class group is needed ASAP! Anybody know of any anarchists active in the area?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8361466.stm

[Pogue]

As I'm sure many of you will have heard, Nick Griffin is going to be contesting the Barking constituency in East London in the general election. From what they've said, they're going to be putting a lot of time and resources into campaigning in the area (more than any other election campaign apparently). They have two MEPs, but what they really need (and want) to constitute as a 'breakthrough' is an MP. I think they feel this is a winnable seat, or at least somewhere where they could have a big impact. It's a testing ground as such, and will no doubt be used as a trophy to show what they can achieve if they're succesful.

The Barking & Dagenham constituency is where Barnbrook is a councillor, so there is some strong BNP support there. East London has a proud radical and anti-fascist tradition, anarchists need to get out there and reclaim this tradition. We have plenty of prior warning, so a local & grassroots working class group is needed ASAP! Anybody know of any anarchists active in the area?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8361466.stm

When I say I know anarchists active in this area, I mean I know anarchists active in this area, its fairly close to Whitechapel, our stomping ground, and I'll make sure its a massive priority that we got on the case of this. Rest assured the BNP have never been welcome in this area and we'll do something about Griffin running here.

[Partizani]

why are you limiting this antifascist action to anarchists only? i would understand if you said no 'UAF pricks' but it should be a united front against these fascists.

[Fidel Follower]

A little off topic.. but if Griffin stands as a counselor in Barking will he have to give up his position in the European Parliament, or can he do both?

[Pogue]

why are you limiting this antifascist action to anarchists only? i would understand if you said no 'UAF pricks' but it should be a united front against these fascists.

I don't really see how a united front could work in terms of combatting the BNP in working class areas. If others want to help thats cool and we'll happily work with them but a united front is not the sort of thing we'd be in on.

[Melbourne Lefty]

A little off topic.. but if Griffin stands as a counselor in Barking will he have to give up his position in the European Parliament, or can he do both?

1. Griffin will not win. If he improves his vote [up from about 15% last GE] then they will claim a victory.

2. If Griffin does win a seat as an MP he simply passes his MEP seat on to the person below him on the list in the North West, which would [off the top of my head] be Martin Wigfield, former editor of the BNP's rag Freedom.

3. My guess is that Nick himself does not think he can win this seat, they can prob get about 20% of the vote as a backlash against labour, but thats about it. If you watch the speech on Youtube it is made clear that the real reason for him standing there is to draw attention to the area for the council polls that should occur at the same time, the BNP thinks it can win the council, and since winning the council would mean actual power as compared to a lonely MP in the House of Commons its clear why they are targeting Barking.

If this is the case then I suggest the opposition be massive, that means including the justly maligned UAF and just holding massive media friendly protests in the area drawing as many local people as possible.

[Patchd]

It'll be interesting to see how much their vote goes up by (if it does, doubt it won't not go up) this time around, especially with immigration and 'Islam', and what some lovely white British people are doing about it (EDL/WDL/SDL etc...), have all been in the news recently.

[SpudsMcGee]

www(dot)thetrollhouse(dot)net


The owner is a self-described anti-Semite, anti-Aboriginal (he's an Aussie) White Supremacist with favorable views towards the monarchy and Nazism. There are quite a few BNP types on the board as well as the 'Kill all Moslems' crowd. So this is an open invitation for all the Antifa types as well as others to come join the discussion. As long as you don't post private info or engage in any illegal nonsense he won't ban you. So come and take a look at and join the party. The owner and a good chunk of his members richly deserve it.


btw. There is a UK news section and the UK posters seem to like Nick Griffin. Have fun with the BNP supporters.

[ls]

www(dot)thetrollhouse(dot)net


The owner is a self-described anti-Semite, anti-Aboriginal (he's an Aussie) White Supremacist with favorable views towards the monarchy and Nazism. There are quite a few BNP types on the board as well as the 'Kill all Moslems' crowd. So this is an open invitation for all the Antifa types as well as others to come join the discussion. As long as you don't post private info or engage in any illegal nonsense he won't ban you. So come and take a look at and join the party. The owner and a good chunk of his members richly deserve it.


btw. There is a UK news section and the UK posters seem to like Nick Griffin. Have fun with the BNP supporters.

There's nothing original or funnily trollish on there, it's just regurgitated garbage, not that it would be funny being based on randomly "controversial" stuff anyway but wateva.


why are you limiting this antifascist action to anarchists only? i would understand if you said no 'UAF pricks' but it should be a united front against these fascists.

What Pogue said basically, a united front implies getting people who still believe in the government (who are gonna sabotage everything) and its policies that have led to the BNP's rising this far - to help us out, which is not a good thing. There is a need for revolutionaries here.

[Sam_b]

a united front implies getting people who still believe in the government

No it doesn't.

[Pogue]

No it doesn't.

I think it would. If we had a 'united front' we'd be working with everyone who is 'left wing' and anti-BNP. That could involve social democrats, etc.

Even if it didn't, how could we effectively build up support together in a united front? The SWP solution to the BNP wouldn't be the same as L&S's, for example, so any united front in fighting the BNP would be meaningless.

[Sam_b]

Please, look up the definition of united front.

[ls]

Please, look up the definition of united front.

Please Sam, I think you are showing yourself up here a bit: http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/germany/1931/311208.htm.

[Sam_b]

I maintain it doesn't because it is an inherant simplification, and that I forgot the quote the end of the sentence, a pretty reactionary part if I say so, where you seem to describe progressive if not revolutinoary sections of the working class as saboteurs.

I think you completely fail to notice the differences between what we now call 'social democarats' and the Social Democracy in Germany and Russia. On that point do you disagree with:

"There are and doubtless will be Social Democratic workers who are prepared to fight hand in hand with the Communist workers against the fascists, regardless of the desires or even against the desires of the Social Democratic organizations. With such progressive elements it is obviously necessary to establish the closest possible contact. At the present time, however, they are not great in number. The German worker has been raised in the spirit of organization and of discipline. This has its strong as well as its weak sides. The overwhelming majority of the Social Democratic workers will fight against the fascists, but – for the present at least – only together with their organizations. This stage cannot be skipped. We must help the Social Democratic workers in action – in this new and extraordinary situation – to test the value of their organizations and leaders at this time, when it is a matter of life and death for the working class."

?

From what Pogue et al appear (but perhaps do not necessarily mean) to be saying is that a mass and united working class will not be effective at combatting fascism in working class areas because of its inherant divides ie that some class-conscious workers are reformist. I do not share this view. We have to see the United Front as a tactic not just to overwhelm and defeat the fascists, but to move them away from reformism. As Trotsky wrote in 1922 "On the United Front" with he French example in mind:


"If the Communist Party had not broken drastically and irrevocably with the [reformist] social democrats, it would not have become the party of the proletarian revolution. It would have forever remained a parliamentary safety-valve attached to the bourgeois state. Whoever does not understand this, does not know the first letter of the ABC of Communism. If the Communist Party did not seek for organisational avenues to the end that at every given moment joint, coordinated action between the Communist and the non-Communist (including social democratic) working masses were made possible, it would have thereby laid bare its own incapacity to win over—on the basis of mass action—the majority of the working class. It would degenerate into a Communist propaganda society but never develop into a party for the conquest of power.

It is not enough to possess the sword, one must give it an edge; it is not enough to give the sword an edge, one must know how to wield it. After separating the Communists from the reformists it is not enough to fuse the Communists together by means of organisational discipline; it is necessary that this organisation should learn how to guide all the collective activities of the proletariat in all spheres of its living struggle. This is the second letter of the alphabet of Communism"

[ls]

Sam, don't you think that Trotsky knew what he was talking about when he carefully inferred social-democrats into what he was writing? Yes granted social-democrats were not as bad as they are nowdays, but there was a clear difference between them and Communists, it isn't something that can be overlooked like you are doing.

On an interesting sidenote, do you think that the 'popular front' tactic (and yes I know the difference between this and a 'united front' but I think both notions are bourgeois deviations) was the revolutionary force who's side was worth taking in the spanish civil war?

It usually appears that Trotskyists back the POUM, however, what you're saying here would be akin to backing the popular front instead, against the fascists. It might be an interesting litmus test to see your response here.

[Sam_b]

You do know the difference between a popular front and a united front, aye?

[ls]

I've edited my post. ;)

[ls]

It's really like saying that reformist and social-democratic workers are "pro-working-class", which they aren't.

If you follow the true 'united front' tactic which is supposed to mean everyone in the front is working-class and in fact pro-working-class, the groups you are talking about are not pro-working-class and a substantial proportion of them are not going to be economically workers either. You don't seem to understand that the whole notion of a 'united front' is flawed from its inception in this way.

[Sam_b]

How ridiculously, ridiculously simplistic.

So let's get this straight: your proposal for fighting fascism will not be entrenching itself in the woring class communities of East London because these people are saboteurs, correct? How exactly are you going to beat them without a united working class pushing for a solution to local issues and a community standing strong against fascism and resisting them?

Do you believe that everyone involved at Cable Street was a revolutionary?

[ls]

How ridiculously, ridiculously simplistic.

So let's get this straight: your proposal for fighting fascism will not be entrenching itself in the woring class communities of East London because these people are saboteurs, correct? How exactly are you going to beat them without a united working class pushing for a solution to local issues and a community standing strong against fascism and resisting them?

Do you believe that everyone involved at Cable Street was a revolutionary?

Actually, a lot of them were. However, they weren't called up from within the Labour Party or via the Trade Unions movement.

It is a fundamental and absolute difference here, revolutionaries I'd consider as being suspect like the CPGB, actually chose to break their own party line and join in despite being warned not to.

I believe there is a total difference between working 'within' reactionary organisations to mobilise a fightback against Fascists and working at the lowest common level with the locals to fightback against the Fascists, the examples of local groups that do not necessarily follow the line of for example, the UAF, include Notts stop the BNP. I'm not saying groups like that are 'saboteurs' at all, they do not have a line on politics, unlike the UAF who simply do.

[Pogue]

Sam I don't see what the problem is. What I am saying is that I wouldn't work with groups like the SWP in a united front ebcause it would mean comprimising my politics and I think only my politics are adequate for fighting the BNP. The only groups I could meaningfully be in a united front with would be Class War, AFed, Solfed, etc, and even then, there would be problems.

Obviously we can work together on demos. This happens all the time. But we can't put out propoganda together.