Alternate History of World War Two and Cold War

[Ol' Dirty]

I'm working on a novel about the Cold War, only the Nazis don't get their faces kicked in. They make peace with Britain, never declare war on the US, and wait to invade the USSR.

It'll be written from the point of view of a German "journalist" during the eighties. Germany is going through a sort of "Glastnost" thing, and he's celebrating the fiftieth aniversary of the "German Revolution," read: Hitler's election. So its 1983, and Germany is starting to run out of steam, with a continuing war in the Soviet Union, a massive Jewish and Slavic workforce that is growing increasingly unruly, an empty treasury, and the loss of the colonies of her European allies (Congo, Angola, Mozambique, Indonesia.)

Any help would be good.

[Drace]

Interesting...
Its going to be in the past tense? Since its narrator is in the 80s?

[Manifesto]

Describe the Cold War better, does not really make sense if the USSR is fighting Nazi Germany.

EDIT: Was not rightly worded.

[Axle]

What part will Italy and Japan play?

I've always thought that Nazi Germany would have turned on its allies.

[ComradeOm]

Explain why Germany did not lose the Eastern Front, how it has the resources to sustain its war effort, why neither Britain or the USA have intervened in the past fifty years, why the war has not gone nuclear, and how the tottering Nazi edifice is still standing

[coda]

I can help with history, trivia/music and or pop culture, (mostly from a US perspective though.) I was in my late teens in 1983. Fling any questions to my inbox.

[Dimentio]

I'm working on a novel about the Cold War, only the Nazis don't get their faces kicked in. They make peace with Britain, never declare war on the US, and wait to invade the USSR.

It'll be written from the point of view of a German "journalist" during the eighties. Germany is going through a sort of "Glastnost" thing, and he's celebrating the fiftieth aniversary of the "German Revolution," read: Hitler's election. So its 1983, and Germany is starting to run out of steam, with a continuing war in the Soviet Union, a massive Jewish and Slavic workforce that is growing increasingly unruly, an empty treasury, and the loss of the colonies of her European allies (Congo, Angola, Mozambique, Indonesia.)

Any help would be good.

It has already been written. Its name is "Fatherland". :)

[Tatarin]

Interesting. Fatherland didn't go as far as the 80's, and Hitler was alive in it, but I am guessing that one way or another he would have died before the 80's (he had Parkinsons and some other diseases).

I'd be interested in the development of fascism in the US, and in the world. I always had the stance that if they never fought the nazis, there wouldn't be much use of propagating against fascism - in fact, it is the perfect system and back then it had quite a popular support.

Another view which I would be interested in is the development of nazism. Would successors after Hitler have gone in his steps of creating a "master race", or would they ignore Hitler's vision? In contrast, we've seen that after Lenin (for some Stalin), the USSR dropped the whole world revolution concept, and in China after Mao's death, they reintroduced capitalism.

[swirling_vortex]

Here's a YouTube video that tries to show just that, although it's slightly different from your storyline.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVksVZs0nmo&feature=related

[Comrade Gwydion]

I indeed think that if there hadn't been a WWII with USA involved, USA would have been very likely to become Nazi. Think of Ford and Charles Lindenbergh for example.
Even on a greater scale: What if there hadn't been any wordwar: Nazi germany could have done all it's crimes and all it's plans, but wouldn't try to expand it's borders: Probably half of the world would have turned fascist. The fascist parties around the world were popular, and if they would have had a chance to see what wonders fascism did for the economy, I'm sure the Benelux, the USA, Eastern Europe, Canada and UK perhaps had a great chance of turning fascist without a single shot fired.

Anyway, the only thing I have against your scenario is this: The German-USSR war wouldn't have lasted that long. Both nations were at full commitement, and no matter who would've won, it'd be total, it'd be brutal, and it'd be over by 1950 I think. At least it'd be over as soon as the Atomic Bomb was invented^^;;

[MarxSchmarx]

I indeed think that if there hadn't been a WWII with USA involved, USA would have been very likely to become Nazi. Think of Ford and Charles Lindenbergh for example.


There was a book about this in America, I think it was called "Plot against america" where Lindie gets elected to the presidency and declares war on Canada along with Germany or something like that. It was kinda weird.

[Random Precision]

There was a book about this in America, I think it was called "Plot against america" where Lindie gets elected to the presidency and declares war on Canada along with Germany or something like that. It was kinda weird.

By Philip Roth, who I never really liked. Lindbergh does get elected president, relationships with the Nazis get warmer. The main plotline is an alternate version of Roth's childhood, where his brother Sydney becomes a regime "pioneer" or something to move Jewish families away from the cities and into places like Idaho, Montana, Wyoming etc.

(spoilers)

It ends with Lindbergh's plane going down, a la Amelia Erheart, and never being found before he can enter the war on Germany's side. Thereafter there is a plebiscite which restores FDR to office, America enters the war against Germany a year late, Sydney comes back into the fold and everyone lives happily ever after. Bit of a cop-out if you ask me, but no one ever does. :(

[The Author]

I only wish there was an alternate history novel out there where the USSR won the Cold War and it wasn't told from a Red Dawn style anti-communist point of view. Now THAT would make for an interesting read.

[MarxSchmarx]

By Philip Roth, who I never really liked. Lindbergh does get elected president, relationships with the Nazis get warmer. The main plotline is an alternate version of Roth's childhood, where his brother Sydney becomes a regime "pioneer" or something to move Jewish families away from the cities and into places like Idaho, Montana, Wyoming etc.

(spoilers)

It ends with Lindbergh's plane going down, a la Amelia Erheart, and never being found before he can enter the war on Germany's side. Thereafter there is a plebiscite which restores FDR to office, America enters the war against Germany a year late, Sydney comes back into the fold and everyone lives happily ever after. Bit of a cop-out if you ask me, but no one ever does. :(

Agreed. That sounds like a lame copout, though the pogrom plot sounds intriguing.

[Ol' Dirty]

Well, the Cold war is really about the liberal west (Commonwealth and U.S., COMUS) against the Anti-Comintern pact, which is Europe except Sweeden, Switzerland and Britain and Europe's colonies, plus the southern cone of Latin America & South Africa. its not as hostile as the cold war OTL, because its mostly just the two powers arguing about how to deal with the communist threat. Most of the war is actually about the west losing her colonies. France is still in Africa and Indochina, Belgium in the Congo, Portugal in Moz. and Ang., Holland in Indonesia. Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay and Chile all habe Franco-style fascist states. Che is a pivitol figure in the guerilla war there, resembling a mix between the Spanish Civil and Dirty wars. South Africa goes really crazy with its Apartheid policies. The Germans get huge amounts of resources in return for military resources. The Chinese CivilWar is still going on, but Korea is unified. Japan was defeated as in OTL, but Italy is still a big part of the Axis. There will be an Italo-German Split like the Sino-Soviet split in OTL. Also, Germany is fighting a constant war in Russia, as well as Poland. Large numbers of Germans are going east to live in walled-in towns. The only people actively fighting fascism are the Anti-Imperialist League (OTL League against Imperialism) who are overwhelmingly socialist with a good amount of liberals.

[Dimentio]

Interesting. Fatherland didn't go as far as the 80's, and Hitler was alive in it, but I am guessing that one way or another he would have died before the 80's (he had Parkinsons and some other diseases).

I'd be interested in the development of fascism in the US, and in the world. I always had the stance that if they never fought the nazis, there wouldn't be much use of propagating against fascism - in fact, it is the perfect system and back then it had quite a popular support.

Another view which I would be interested in is the development of nazism. Would successors after Hitler have gone in his steps of creating a "master race", or would they ignore Hitler's vision? In contrast, we've seen that after Lenin (for some Stalin), the USSR dropped the whole world revolution concept, and in China after Mao's death, they reintroduced capitalism.

Most likely, it would have moderated itself given the fact that a Nazi Germany on the top of an empire would need some "responsible way" of reaping the benefits of an empire. After Hitler, either the nazi party would turn into some sort of apartheid national party or be couped by the military, either way creating some form of conservative dictatorship.

The main difference would of course have been that the entire struggle against racism and discrimination would probably have been retarded worldwide. A large reason of the fact that the USA enacted civil rights legislation in the 1960's was that racist and misogynistic ideologies had lost all credibility and ideological clout due to the defeat of Hitler's reich, racism taken to its logical conclusion.