The Death of Che Guevara - Let this be the last of these rep

[Pete]

Educate Yourselves :) (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB5/index.html#declass)

[LeonardSharkey]

Thanks Pete. Nice One.

[booga]

Che IS not dead!

Yes! Lets find out what communism is all about, for real!
The economists are saying communism has been defeated yet you and I both know that it has transcended.

We hate no country, we hate no religion, we hate no world leader or political affiliations. We buy truth and teach others, we're not out to make trouble, and if it's trouble they want to start, then this is where trouble ends. :smile:

tt

[atlanticche]

Che isn't dead his spirit lives on and always will until all is forgotten if ever

[Luna]

Thank you Pete.

[zero8gear]

THe death of Che Guevara makes rise to all the people who have the guts to lead all the people who are poor,deprived,oppressed and exploited.

[Camarade Eli]

ok, I will...

[ThePrynce]

This is very interesting, Pete. Thanks tons for the link... I'm sure I'll waste away many hours of my life exploring it.

BTW, I'm new here ;)

-=The Prynce

[Tistje communistje]

hey thx a lot. btw here in belgium PVDA, the only communist party , has lost 0.1%(0.2%-0.1%=0.1%...)
:'(

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

That link is old man. Those documents have been declassified and on the net for ages.

What's the actual point of this thread?

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

Interestingly, or not as the case may be, Nas, on his album Stillmatic makes a reference to how Che Guevara was killed by "his country". I'm not sure if Nas meant Argentina or Cuba.

Just something I picked up on.

[Comrade Ceausescu]

i picked up on that,being the huge nas fan that i am.

[Pete]

I put this up because of all the 'fidel killed che, no america killed che' threads that sprouted up all at once a month or so back.

[SlimJin]

True Pete it was the Americans. I have done a lot of reading on this and I think it was the CIA who had many Top Secret Documents on how to brainwash the people and turn them against Che, it worked and the Americans were "Indirectly" responsible for the murder of Che.

[Zeljko]

Offcourse it was CIA, who did you think it was?!
But, one thing troubles me: what do those people think?
I mean they dont know what Socialism is all about and then they opose it so strongly.

[RebeldePorLaPAZ]

Thanks for that link. Long but worth every minute reading.

Your right Zeljko, people oposing Socialism so strongly never saw things on Che point of veiw and thats why they opose its so much. And thats what Americas role is. To make everybody belive that they are right and the other people are wrong.

[ThePrynce]

I'm ashamed to be an American. I know that every time I buy something, my sales tax goes to the government so that they can destroy the lives of innocent people just because they're not Americans. That's like all of the kids being blown away in Iraq, but when one kid goes missing in the US, it's headline news. How dare we think the the value of life is directly related to our country of orgin? I know that my life and my soul is worth no more than an infant Iraqi. And now, in two days, I have to hear this whole country brag even more than it does on a regular day about it's 'greatness'. I'm not sure when 'greatness' came to mean 'a country who lies to itself, its people, and the world and plots against all the fore-mentioned'.

Save me from this place...

-=The Prynce

[cOmMie rOcKs]

To atlanticche:

I toatally agree, che will NEVEr die
he is in our hearts all the time!!

[革命者]

Quote: from Zeljko on 12:10 pm on June 27, 2003
Offcourse it was CIA, who did you think it was?!
But, one thing troubles me: what do those people think?
I mean they dont know what Socialism is all about and then they opose it so strongly.
it's just there job, they don't take it that serious-- they have to oppertunity to kill and not get prosecuted or even arrested!!

[Berg]

Thank's CrazyPete.

[peterb]

Che is an inspiration: he recognised imperialism and attacked it. His heroism will always inspire us. Socialism must be created but we must learn from Che's mistakes. We need to work internationally to defeat imperialism and create democratic socialism which takes control away from the capitalists. Worker control and revolution. Power to the people not a stalinist elitist bureaucracy.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

[FistFullOfSteel]

i agree with peterb!!good one..we have to fight against imperialism and we will not give up!hasta la victoria siempre!

[Le Libérer]

Hello everyone, I am new to this message board, and already love what I see.

Thanks so much for the above article. There were some details I werent aware of that were mentioned in the article. Been here less than an hour, and already getting educated. What more can I ask for?
Debora

[FistFullOfSteel]

ask what u want?

[Che Forever]

nice one!

Ok will kill my self now!

[Vladimir]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2003, 07:44 AM
Che is an inspiration: he recognised imperialism and attacked it. His heroism will always inspire us. Socialism must be created but we must learn from Che's mistakes. We need to work internationally to defeat imperialism and create democratic socialism which takes control away from the capitalists. Worker control and revolution. Power to the people not a stalinist elitist bureaucracy.
Hasta la victoria siempre.
You're an idiot. Sorry but you are advocating Democratic Socialism to take control away from the capitalists??????? :lol: :lol: Whats the plan? Is this going to happen in July when all the ruling class are away in the Carribean on holidays?

[FistFullOfSteel]

Originally posted by Che [email protected] 14 2003, 08:06 PM
nice one!

Ok will kill my self now!
no dont do that..pls

[Kurtcsk]

Patria o Muerte!

[HUAQIAO]

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[!!~rizo~!!]

learned alot, thanks pete.

[hugebologna]

Definitely Nice Link.

The People Should Have The Power. I Am Also American, And It Disgusts Me Too That My Toilet Paper Supports The Government. The Only Way To True Freedom Is Through Bloody Military Coup.

Power To The People!

[capone]

I DISAGGREE WITH HUGEBOLOGNA FREEDOM BY A BLOODY MILITARY GROUP!!! SO YOUR PRO BUSH HE HAD A BLOODY MILITARY COUP WHEN HE ORVERAN IRAQ AND SENT HIS COUNTRY TO GO TO LAW FIRMS AND FILE FOR BANKRUPTCY.





YOU MAKE ME SICK!!!!!!!!!!1

[pandora]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2003, 04:27 AM
Educate Yourselves :) (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB5/index.html#declass)
There is too much darkness in this world to live off of, but amidst so much toil and strain there is always the surprise of light. Thanks Pete for "Intelligence" Memo; although the word intelligence here is a stretch, it has always saddened me the coldness and lack of depth found in memos from both the CIA and the state department towards their subjects, especially those in the non-"White" world.
[QUOTE] -"Mr. Gandhi, what do you think of Western civilization?"
-"I think it would be a good idea."

[Alternative]

Hasta la victoria Siempre!

Hi i'm new in this Board!

I think without the death of Che he had never got so popular!
That shouldn't mean that I am Happy about his death! He is one of the greatest persoalitys on this earth and I wish his body is still alive but....he is dead!
javascript:emoticon(':angry:')
javascript:emoticon(':angry:')
I am from Austria and I think some of you know the politics there (Haider, ...) and I hate this fucking demokracy!

I hope I can fly to CUBA once and see how the people live there! Is anyone from Cuba here???? I would have so many questions!!

Excues my bad English!

Hasta La victoria Siempre

[El Tipo]

He's alive as long as we remember him, and I honor him as my personal hero in many ways.

[Severian]

I'm going to comment on a rumor that gets persistently brought up in various threads: that there was a falling-out between Castro and Guevara, or that Castro didn't do everything he could to support Che's guerrilla in Bolivia.

First of all, there's no evidence of any major political disagreement between Castro and Guevara. Differences of emphasis, maybe. It's sometimes suggested that Guevara was critical of the USSR and Castro wasn't, but in fact Castro also criticised Soviet policies in a number of mid-60s speeches.

Second, the Cuban government was heavily involved in supporting the guerilla effort in Bolivia. Cuban intelligence supplied the passports that Che and others travelled on, a large number of Cubans participated as guerillas, etc.

Third, Che never expressed any dissatisfaction with Castro or the support he received from the Cuban government. Not even in his private diary, which has been published, so anyone can read it. Not in any conversation with any of the other guerillas.

Guess who's the origin of the claim that he did express dissatisfaction with Castro? One of Che's murderers, CIA agent Felix Rodriguez. He claimed that Che seemed to him "bitter over the Cuban dictator's lack of support for the Bolivian incursion...." Yeah, right, Che's going to confide something with his captors something that he never confided in any of his comrades or in his diary. What BS.

The rumors, originating with Rodriguez, have circulated ever since, spread by enemies of the Cuban revolution and of everything that Che Guevara stood for. The New York Times, for example. Here's a letter to the NYT - which the NYT refused to print in full - explaining in detail why an NYT article on this was purest BS. (Link to letter) (http://www.themilitant.com/1995/5947/5947_14.html)

Fourth, it's sometimes said that the Cuban government failed to rescue Che once the guerillas got into trouble. What were they supposed to do, drop an army of paratroopers?

One excellent book that definitively debunks this rumor and others: Conflicting Missions by Piero Glijeises. It's a history of Cuban foreign policy, including Africa and Latin America. It's so massively well-documented - with declassified papers from a dozen countries - that it received the Ferrell Prize from the Society for Historians of American Foreign Relations even though it's not mostly about U.S. foreign relations.

BTW, it's interesting to note how little conflict there has been within the core leadership of the Cuban Revolution. I'm sure there have been disagreements, but they have been resolved amicably. The Cuban Revolution, unlike some others, has never eaten its children.

The main leaders of the guerillas in the Sierra are all still leaders of the Cuban Communist Party today - with the sole exceptions of Camilo Cienfuegos, killed in a plane crash, and Che Guevara, murdered by a CIA agent and the Bolivian military dictatorship.

[Kurai Tsuki]

Originally posted by cOmMie [email protected] 3 2003, 05:31 PM
To atlanticche:

I toatally agree, che will NEVEr die
he is in our hearts all the time!!
He may be in our hearts but its his actions that we need.

[Nas]

im new to this forum , I am from USA but my parents are spanish , Hasta la victoria Siempre!!!!!!! Che vive en espiritu, anyways I love this place , i share the same beliefs with many of you ,

i mean if you could only make an impact, if you could change the system , isnt that worth living for , isnt that worth fighting for, isnt that worth dying for ???!!!!

[DaCuBaN]

You want me to, I'll make a call to arms. The problem is I ain't got no arms to distribute. :(


He may be in our hearts but its his actions that we need

The man infests every part of my being. A simple human going against everything simply to get the best he can for the peoples he tried to bring to revolution.

[spirit_of_1916]

The U.S had a big part to play in the death of che, without their intervention the Bolivian forces would have been in no way been able to cope with the guerrilla movement. this is evident in che's Bolivian diary’s, and he also commented on the fact that as time went on the Bolivian forces were becoming more and more competent. And it was the 2nd Ranger Battalion, trained by C.I.A "tactical advisors", that finally ended his guerrilla movement and executed a P.O.W and claimed he was killed in combat.
Wherever there is injustice, let a revolution take hold.

[cptozgun]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2003, 09:46 PM
I'm ashamed to be an American. I know that every time I buy something, my sales tax goes to the government so that they can destroy the lives of innocent people just because they're not Americans. That's like all of the kids being blown away in Iraq, but when one kid goes missing in the US, it's headline news. How dare we think the the value of life is directly related to our country of orgin? I know that my life and my soul is worth no more than an infant Iraqi. And now, in two days, I have to hear this whole country brag even more than it does on a regular day about it's 'greatness'. I'm not sure when 'greatness' came to mean 'a country who lies to itself, its people, and the world and plots against all the fore-mentioned'.

Save me from this place...

-=The Prynce
just be a human think peace of the child

[cyd]

alright guys, ive got some news to break to you che is dead, and this image you have of him is distorted. ok, ok he was a couragous guy, incredable brave and a brilliant mind. but the fact is the only reason he is held in such high esteem is because of this brand we've been sold, not only by pop culture but by god himself fidel castro. so much has been written about him that theres no mystery anymore, if there was then i could understand, tell me this why isn't there more websites about camilo cienfuegos, i tell u why because che is prettier.

[iriscience]

i hope im not talking out of y ass...but i watched a special on che on the history channel and was led to believe that castro was quite instrumental in his capture and execution. is this true? why would castro kill ch? i hope you can give me some answers.

[emmissary]

Thanx for tha link!!

[Hasta Siempre Comandante]

CYD, it is true that pup culture and che's looks have added to his wide-spread popularity, but that doesn't take anything away from what he did. I'm sure the last thing Che wanted was for his face to be used as a marketing tool to sell products. What's important is that people who really believe in socialism- communism learn from what he said and what he did. There is no question that there are many revolutionaries that have been overlooked or forgotten, but I will argue that people who are truly educated and passionate about the revolution know and value the work and sacrifice that people like camilo cienfuegos gave.

Speaking of Camilo- his death is perhaps even more mysterious than Che's death. From what I've read, he was last seen boarding a plane, returning to havana.... what do you guys think happened to Camilo? I know there are a lot of theories as to what happend- like fidel had him killed and, his plane was shot down by mistake by a cuban air force fighter plane.

[Joey101]

WOW, Cuba even has an air force? Like with planes and stuff, I guess good for them? lol

I have a few questions, I am from America, and while I don’t hold the exact same beliefs as some... or well all of you, im a little bit confused as to who this Guevara person is, I obviously understand a few things like he was communist/socialist or something, and was a rebel in Bolivia, that’s where my info ends. Before I had gone to a website called http://www.negativepositive.org/ in one of the many subjects he wrote, (he lives in New York, and well I guess you cant relate, much of what he says is 100% true, opinions, but nonetheless true, anyways sorry for ranting) one of the things he says that he hates about America is,

"People who own T-shirts, posters, flags, stickers, etc. with the face of Che Guevara on them who have absolutely no clue who he was, what he did, or why he was historically significant, but are pretty sure he had something to do with Rage Against the Machine.... or maybe Pot."

Personally I had no Idea who Guevara is, or was until I read this, this intrigued me as to who he was. So what do I do, I go to google.com and google it, and find this site. I have seen many people here (USA), some at my high school, they wear shits with a HUGE picture of Guevara on the front of them, and 99% of them probably don’t know who he is, whenever I saw these shirts prior to my knowledge of him now, I always thought he was one of the monkeys from Planet of the Apes, no disrespect, but I had never paid attention to the picture, as there was no reason too. After this was pointed out to me, it does make me mad that, if someone meaning Guevara, did something important in the world, that girls that think bob Marley is cool because he was Jamaican and he did pot so he’s cool, wear this shit of a figure, which I don’t know much about, they just wear this shit with no basis upon it, besides it costs 30$ THIRTY USD! That’s a lot for some clothing that means nothing for them.

I may not agree with communism, I think that it is necessary in the world, I read awhile back about a Russian Class of students, and their teachers goal was too teach the class that Lenin was wrong, and his ideas for Russia were bad, and communism is not for Russia. The students saw it completely differently, since many of you know, Russia is freaking HUGE. It is a Continent all by its self, therefore, the way the students saw it, Lenin was correct in his ways, because since Russia was so big, nothing could be equal ever, it was a sad but true point. The article was put in the Washington Post (Washington DC area) in May I believe, it opened my eyes, that communism isn’t……well I don’t want to say it, it isn’t always bad in all circumstances, i.e. Lenin’s theory that they show in the article, it is acceptable in Russia, IMHO.

I don’t know where I am going with this, to tell you the truth, im bored, its 8:21 am, and US television is boring so I was reading and I find this site, I think it is quite interesting actually. I always try with all my might to give everything I see in the world more then one view, because to not, would be ignorance, to at least not look at something at more then one angle. The sad thing is, most of the US population is too stupid to give anything any other look, as many of us always believe we are correct. In school people talk about the “Crazy” suicide bombers in Iraq, and how they are monsters for killing civilians that just get in the way, and cant help it, and the US army are the victims. Well one day I asked the girl that said this, “wait, so what you are saying is that, no one else in the world can fight for freedom?” she was puzzled because she couldn’t look at it from the bombers view, besides he was brought to believe he would go to heaven for killing a few people he intended to kill (US troops) and take out a dozen or so other civilians who worship his god also. She didn’t really want to understand because she was scared :( , its sad when the population wont answer the questions that they need to answer/ask. But she couldn’t understand that just because it might not be the most worthy cause, doesn’t mean its not worth fighting for right?

Well im done for now, again I apologize to you all for being forced to sit through that long read, im just bored, and these are a few things I wanted to get off of my chest, because here in America we have “Freedoms” but the downside is you are looked at as being different just because you think about these things, even though you don’t believe them, and you just need to say them because they eat at your mind, and your trust in your government.

Again Sorry.

[CubanFox]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 06:32 PM
alright guys, ive got some news to break to you che is dead, and this image you have of him is distorted. ok, ok he was a couragous guy, incredable brave and a brilliant mind. but the fact is the only reason he is held in such high esteem is because of this brand we've been sold, not only by pop culture but by god himself fidel castro. so much has been written about him that theres no mystery anymore, if there was then i could understand, tell me this why isn't there more websites about camilo cienfuegos, i tell u why because che is prettier.
Ohh, I dunno, that beard was pretty damn sexy ;)

But in all seriousness, the reason why so much has been written about Che is that he died young, died violently, and died fighting for something.

Camilo died in a plane crash, and wasn't as, how do I put it?, dashing as Che.

He didn't go gallivanting off to the jungles of Africa and the altiplano of Bolivia in the way that Che did.

In other words, he didn't capture the West's imagination in the way that Che did.

Not to say that Camilo was at all inferior, he made a great contribution to the Revolution. I especially love this quote from him: "The rebel army is the people in uniform."

[max burke]

I would just like to say that not all Americans are bad. For those of you who are disgusted to be an American, instead of whining about it, get out there and do something to improve it (and it does need a lot of improving). One of the best things we can do is get Bush out of office. Don't get me wrong, I respect and like Che and I am all for peace and I am anti-Iraq war, but don't be ashamed of the place you were born in and don't assume all Americans are bad. There I am done.

[max burke]

I would just like to say that not all Americans are bad. For those of you who are disgusted to be an American, instead of whining about it, get out there and do something to improve it (and it does need a lot of improving). One of the best things we can do is get Bush out of office. Don't get me wrong, I respect and like Che and I am all for peace and I am anti-Iraq war, but don't be ashamed of the place you were born in and don't assume all Americans are bad. There I am done.

[max burke]

I would just like to say that not all Americans are bad. For those of you who are disgusted to be an American, instead of whining about it, get out there and do something to improve it (and it does need a lot of improving). One of the best things we can do is get Bush out of office. Don't get me wrong, I respect and like Che and I am all for peace and I am anti-Iraq war, but don't be ashamed of the place you were born in and don't assume all Americans are bad. There I am done.

[r3B3lli0n]

Beautifully said ThePrynce

[Anarcho-Communist]

Thanks for that!

Peace, Love, Empathy

[Hege]

Thanks for the link Pete.

[left wing player]

I would like to quote Billy Joe Armstrong... leadsinger of Green Day:


You are the leaders of this world, don't let no empty head or redneck tell you what to do or how you should do it....

I'm not white, black or yellow....
I'm no christian, moslim or budha
I'm a world cityzan I love life!!!!

[mexican rebel 13]

che may be dead but his ideas and his fight for justice will live for as long as the earth spins.

[EL_ Commandante]

Hey sorry, I know that this doesn't pertain to the subject at matter but could someone plz tell me how to get one of those Che pictures. I really want one. I would really appreciated.

[CheJoni]

Viva la Revolution
you find suppressions and exploitation around the world, change this

[Marxist]

Spirit of che will live forever!!! :che:

[Iroquois Xavier]

Che Lives and his spirit is in every single one of us! Viva La Revolucion! :)

[Fistful of Steel]

Che didn't die, he's working in a laundromat in Venezuela. I'm completely fucking serious.

[forza_che]

Che provides to us and the world not only a great number of idea's and theories on socialism and revolution but most importantly he shows that any one of us can and will make a difference.

Che was born in a small village in Argentina and lived in the same conditions as millions and millions of other people across the world. If he who hated and fought all his life against in-justice and oppression can rise so opulently and have such an incredible impact then why can't we who have so many priveleges and opportunites to change the world for the better.

'Shoot coward, you are only killing a man'

Forza Che

[John Lenin]

"Above all, try always to be able to feel deeply any injustice committed against any person in any part of the world.
It is the most beautiful quality of a revolutionary."


~ Che Guevara's last letter to his children



http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j318/Tredcrow/Guerrilla/che1.jpg



FYwZP-98UqI



http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j318/Tredcrow/Guerrilla/che2.jpg



"This secular saint (Che) was ready to die because he could not tolerate a world where the poor of the earth,
the displaced and dislocated of history, would be relegated to its vast margins."


~ Ariel Dorfman, Time Magazine






...







http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j318/Tredcrow/Guerrilla/che3-1.jpg


"You may cut the flowers, but it will not stop the spring."


"Podran cortar las flores, pero no detendran la primavera."


~ (A saying about El Che's legacy, written on walls throughout Latin America)

[ponyfang]

I've heard tell people came in and said he looke dalmost like jesus christ. I may be wrong but he was allot of peoples "savior" if you catch my drift really sad the CIA had to put an end to him, he was a nice fella. ^_^

[RedAnarchist]

I've heard tell people came in and said he looke dalmost like jesus christ. I may be wrong but he was allot of peoples "savior" if you catch my drift really sad the CIA had to put an end to him, he was a nice fella. ^_^

I suppose anyone with long hair and a beard could look like the Western idea of what Jesus looked like (that is, if he ever even existed). The CIA saw him as a threat to America and had him killed, because they saw no other alternative other than murder.

[Rousedruminations]

yes you are right red anarchist, it was the CIA and its many plots with all american governments to preserve its own political ideology desiring to propagate that all over the world , for US corporate expansion/imperialism, political, and military domination..he was unfortunately killed by CIA trained bolivian fighters. He wanted two or three Vietnam's in latin America completing a communist latin america.. all american governments where scared of this and he posed the biggest threat of all .. a legend and martyr forever

VIVA EL CHE GUEVARA .. VIVA LA REVOLUCIAN !

[CHE with an AK]

"Che’s life is an inspiration for every human being who loves freedom, we will always honor his memory."

— Nelson Mandela



FI1ixHnDo6I

[Hammering]

I've heard tell people came in and said he looke dalmost like jesus christ. I may be wrong but he was allot of peoples "savior" if you catch my drift really sad the CIA had to put an end to him, he was a nice fella. ^_^

Well if people keep Idolizing him, he will end up another Jesus Christ.

I really don't see anything special about him. Everything he learned about communism came from Raul.

People like Camilo Cienfuegos were miles ahead of him in terms of freedom and democracy for the people, the sad thing was that he died or was killed by the Castros