Irsp/inla/pbp

[jenny]

what is the story with possibility of INLA joining the PEOPLE BEFORE PROFIT ALLIANCE?????????????, its been in the irish times but even members don't know about it-just shows the lack of proper democratic structures in our organization

[Madvillainy]

This just seems sooo unlikely. I remember the SWP saying they wouldn't work with the IRSP until they disbanded their armed wing, so I'd say this story is bollocks.

Do you have a link to the article, dude?

[Holden Caulfield]

they have disbanded INLA for all intents and purposes

[PRC-UTE]

well if I remember correctly this was reported in the Guardian first and spread from there, and it was based on the talks the IRSP had with the SWP back in 2004 or so.

since then the IRSP was in touch with the IMT frequently, which appears to be over, and worked on the republican unity project which is now collapsing.

some kind of left unity would be great but can't really be hammered out in a few meetings. it has to be built on the ground through cooperation around issues and campaigns. and unfortunately the group closest to the IRSP, eirigi, is dead set against that. when marching behind us recently they even took great care to keep our members and banners out of the photos they took of their members

also, most lefties don't inhabit the same areas as the irps do- so that makes cooperation less likely as well.

[pastradamus]

well if I remember correctly this was reported in the Guardian first and spread from there, and it was based on the talks the IRSP had with the SWP back in 2004 or so.

since then the IRSP was in touch with the IMT frequently, which appears to be over, and worked on the republican unity project which is now collapsing.

some kind of left unity would be great but can't really be hammered out in a few meetings. it has to be built on the ground through cooperation around issues and campaigns. and unfortunately the group closest to the IRSP, eirigi, is dead set against that. when marching behind us recently they even took great care to keep our members and banners out of the photos they took of their members

also, most lefties don't inhabit the same areas as the irps do- so that makes cooperation less likely as well.

While its good to converse with other factions of the left, personally I must admit that If the IRSP aligned themselves with the SWP, all respect I have for either organisation would go totally out the window with me. They are both quite different in their make-up and principles from a cross-sectioned leftist point of view....Look at an Irp and compare him to a Swp member. Totally different kettle of fish.

[PRC-UTE]

While its good to converse with other factions of the left, personally I must admit that If the IRSP aligned themselves with the SWP, all respect I have for either organisation would go totally out the window with me. They are both quite different in their make-up and principles from a cross-sectioned leftist point of view....Look at an Irp and compare him to a Swp member. Totally different kettle of fish.

Well I don't see it happening. I haven't heard anything about it- like I said the Guardian article was based purely on a few talks held years ago that came to nothing because of the SWP's objections re the INLA

[Conghaileach]

some kind of left unity would be great but can't really be hammered out in a few meetings. it has to be built on the ground through cooperation around issues and campaigns. and unfortunately the group closest to the IRSP, eirigi, is dead set against that.

That isn't true. The IRSP was a member organisation of the Campaign Against the EU Constitution, as was éirígí. éirígí members have been at protests in support of republican prisoners alongside members of the IRSP. If you're referring to the Irish Republican Forum for Unity though, well I think recent events have validated éirígí keeping its distance.




when marching behind us recently they even took great care to keep our members and banners out of the photos they took of their members

What event was that? I assume you're referring to the British Armed Forces Day event, where a small contingent of IRSP members joined in behind a 150-strong éirígí protest. Believe me when I say that no effort or care would have been required if someone didn't want an Irp in the photo.

[The Ungovernable Farce]

Like you say, it really says something about the functioning of your organisation's internal democracy and accountability if you have to ask on revleft to get an answer.

[pastradamus]

Like you say, it really says something about the functioning of your organisation's internal democracy and accountability if you have to ask on revleft to get an answer.

Who are you referring to?

[The Ungovernable Farce]

The People Before Profit alliance, since they're the ones Jenny was talking about in her OP. Assuming the SWP are the major players behind it, and Jenny's a member of them, it also says something about them if she can't just ask her comrades and get a straight answer.

[pastradamus]

The People Before Profit alliance, since they're the ones Jenny was talking about in her OP. Assuming the SWP are the major players behind it, and Jenny's a member of them, it also says something about them if she can't just ask her comrades and get a straight answer.

Well she's only posted once and maybe it was another of the said newspaper's bullshit articles which none of the SWP knew about, but I dunno comrade.

[Barry]

The papers could also be confused with regards to a few talks that have been occiring the last year or two between leftwing groups, on creating a large leftwing alliance for the next elections. I know the socialist party and the swp had talks aswell, but this ended with no agreement.

[Andropov]

What event was that? I assume you're referring to the British Armed Forces Day event, where a small contingent of IRSP members joined in behind a 150-strong éirígí protest. Believe me when I say that no effort or care would have been required if someone didn't want an Irp in the photo.
Ehh I think you will find that it was a CYM organised protest against the British Armed forces of which the IRSP/RSYM was invited to attend.

[Coggeh]

also, most lefties don't inhabit the same areas as the irps do- so that makes cooperation less likely as well.
The IRSP aren't the only radical leftist organisation that actually operates in working class areas. most organisations in ireland do including PBP but the SWP on the otherhand , In cork anyway don't do any activity outside the odd public meeting . Which is patetic tbh . They make no effort to organise any sort of working class campaigns and still have the nerve to stand up at meetings here and tell people to get out there , get organised etc . I can't speak for the SWP in any other place besides Cork so i won't but that is the situation with regards to their functioning down here.

Anyway outside sectarianism, I think it should be pointed out that left unity for left unities sake will accomplish little. Bringing small sects together will do little in the way of building as real alternative to the major capitalist parties (Labour, FF, FG) left unity has to be done on the basis that its full democratic, their is an agreed manifesto if you will, and they it involves the workers movement i.e the unions.

[Andropov]

The IRSP aren't the only radical leftist organisation that actually operates in working class areas. most organisations in ireland do including PBP but the SWP on the otherhand , In cork anyway don't do any activity outside the odd public meeting . Which is patetic tbh .
I dont think PRC-UTE was having a go at the SP or the SWP class basis.
I think it was merely making referance to the fact that the IRSP has very little basis within communities south of the partition and are primarily based in the working class communities north of the partition.

They make no effort to organise any sort of working class campaigns and still have the nerve to stand up at meetings here and tell people to get out there , get organised etc . I can't speak for the SWP in any other place besides Cork so i won't but that is the situation with regards to their functioning down here.
TBH I think you are being to kind to the SWP in Ireland.
I have yet to meet a SWP member who is not a lifestylist.

[PRC-UTE]

That isn't true. The IRSP was a member organisation of the Campaign Against the EU Constitution, as was éirígí. éirígí members have been at protests in support of republican prisoners alongside members of the IRSP. If you're referring to the Irish Republican Forum for Unity though, well I think recent events have validated éirígí keeping its distance.

I know éirígí joined that campaign, but that's not the same as a unity project. I hope the cooperation continues along those lines between éirígí and IRSP as non-socialist republicanism is at a political dead end, and broad fronts have caused political stagnation for republican socialists.



What event was that? I assume you're referring to the British Armed Forces Day event, where a small contingent of IRSP members joined in behind a 150-strong éirígí protest. Believe me when I say that no effort or care would have been required if someone didn't want an Irp in the photo.

No, wasn't referring to that.

[PRC-UTE]

The IRSP aren't the only radical leftist organisation that actually operates in working class areas.

rite boi already addressed this, but I wasn't trying to say other groups didn't have a base in or operate in working class areas. that's obviously not true.

[The Ungovernable Farce]

The IRSP aren't the only radical leftist organisation that actually operates in working class areas. most organisations in ireland do including PBP but the SWP on the otherhand , In cork anyway don't do any activity outside the odd public meeting . Which is patetic tbh . They make no effort to organise any sort of working class campaigns and still have the nerve to stand up at meetings here and tell people to get out there , get organised etc . I can't speak for the SWP in any other place besides Cork so i won't but that is the situation with regards to their functioning down here.

Are the SWP not majorly active in PBP? I thought it was effectively one of their fronts.

[ellipsis]

SWP, PBP, IRSP, INLA... Makes me crave some alphabet soup.

[Coggeh]

rite boi already addressed this, but I wasn't trying to say other groups didn't have a base in or operate in working class areas. that's obviously not true.
Ok sorry I must have misunderstood . Fair enough . Sorry if i was a bit hostile :blushing: though we do organise north of the border and have been quite successful in that we have a sold organisation but not as strong politically speaking as the south.though per population we have more members in the north than the south :) lol


TBH I think you are being to kind to the SWP in Ireland.
I have yet to meet a SWP member who is not a lifestylist.I'm not so sure.I only know of Cork and I don't want to attack the SWP for something I'm not sure about but down here they are a literal disgrace tbh. And many other movements are too, those who make no effort whatsoever to get involved with community campaigns etc and just hold a meeting once every 3months about some random topic but yet again, they stand up at meetings and have to gall to tell ordinary people to get active . Hypocrates.

[Coggeh]

Are the SWP not majorly active in PBP? I thought it was effectively one of their fronts.
PBP is an effective front for the SWP but their is many other groups involved in the PBP, however the SWP on their own as far as i can say and i limit my talk on the swp (see above) I may be proven wrong and i really want to be . But from my experience they have made no effort. None. to work in working class areas, get involved with community organisations, start campaigns about real working class issues . And until I am proven wrong i will hold that they are a patetic excuse for a revolutionary organisation.

[Soldier of life]

PBP is an effective front for the SWP but their is many other groups involved in the PBP, however the SWP on their own as far as i can say and i limit my talk on the swp (see above) I may be proven wrong and i really want to be . But from my experience they have made no effort. None. to work in working class areas, get involved with community organisations, start campaigns about real working class issues . And until I am proven wrong i will hold that they are a patetic excuse for a revolutionary organisation.

Now we are getting there. Not only are their politics reformist to the core with the likes of boyd barrett leading them, but their general membership are crusties with little knowledge of marxism and who are just trendies.They base alot of their membership and recruitment around colleges, so this is unsurprising.

[pastradamus]

Now we are getting there. Not only are their politics reformist to the core with the likes of boyd barrett leading them, but their general membership are crusties with little knowledge of marxism and who are just trendies.They base alot of their membership and recruitment around colleges, so this is unsurprising.

If I may, Id also like to add that, bar the last 6 months I've seen very little from the SWP with concern to Irish Current Events and politics. Most of their meetings seem to be based around Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine. Not that there is anything wrong with addressing these Issues but I find it annoying that only now they seem to be attacking Pay Cuts and mass workplace dismissals.