Registering to vote and parties

[liono4407]

I just turned 18 and I'm going to register to vote in New York State. I was wondering what socialist/communist party do you think I should register under that is on the ballot in New York State? I already contacted Socialist Alternative (part of the CWI or Committee for a Workers' International) and unfortunately they are not on the ballot in New York State. The person I contacted either said to register as an Independent or a member of the Green Party.

What do you think I should do and do you have any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

EDIT: If this is not in the right place feel free to move it to where it is appropriate. I apologize if it is in the wrong place.

[farleft]

Many people on here will be ideologically opposed to voting for anyone.

Personally I have only voted once for local (UK) and European elections and it was for the Green Party.

[communard resolution]

Many people on here will advocate voting in order for the working class to gain maximum representation on all platforms.

Even Rosa Luxemburg advocated participating in general elections so the communists would get a platform from which to expose parliamentary democracy for the sham it was - she insisted that the parallel economic struggle (strikes, workers councils) was of much higher importance, though. The takeover in the political sphere would just be the icing on the cake once the proletariat secured power in the economic sphere.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

The Party for Socialism and Liberation is active in New York. Maybe you have heard about the campaign around the NYC mayoral elections, Frances Villar is running as a communist.

link: http://www.pslweb.org/site/PageServer?pagename=votepsl_home

[Revy]

You could try the Socialist Party of New York (affiliated with the Socialist Party USA). I don't know if they're on the ballot though. I don't see why that should matter, you could still register under the party can you not? The Socialist Party USA is great, they do activism and they're one of the more organized parties.

PSL aren't that bad, but they have major slip-ups when it comes to their views on certain regimes (which they feel the need to defend in the name of anti-imperialism, a line they owe to the party they split from called Workers World). If you're willing to look past that, they do some great work.

There's the Socialist Workers Party, but I'd stay clear of that, as it is a cult around a man, and they have managed to build their party as a very capitalistic enterprise. The same also happens to apply to the Socialist Equality Party.

That's about it for electoral parties, although a few smaller Trotskyist groups
have run candidates in the past, most of the time they do not. It's not surprising you were told to be an independent (read: Naderite) or Green by someone in Socialist Alternative, the infatuation with Nader or the Green Party is something that pervades much of the left in the US. Socialist Alternative has repeatedly endorsed Ralph Nader for President.

[Spawn of Stalin]

PSL should be your first and only port of call.

[fatpanda]

Many people on here will be ideologically opposed to voting for anyone.

Personally I have only voted once for local (UK) and European elections and it was for the Green Party.

What?!!!Isn't the green party some liberal-capitalist anti communist party?

[Spawn of Stalin]

The Greens have an eco-socialist faction called Green Left, I don't know about anti-Communism but they certainly are not supporters of capitalism.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I don't think it really makes too much difference in the US, especially.

I won't be voting in the UK General Election.

[which doctor]

Even Rosa Luxemburg advocated participating in general elections so the communists would get a platform from which to expose parliamentary democracy for the sham it was - she insisted that the parallel economic struggle (strikes, workers councils) was of much higher importance, though. The takeover in the political sphere would just be the icing on the cake once the proletariat secured power in the economic sphere.
I don't think you can compare the situation of the SPD in the German Parliament to any bourgeois elections nowadays, especially within the US. The nature of the US electoral system and branches of government effectively prohibit any sort of working-class power to be assumed within them anymore. The very atmosphere of congress stifles any actual political action to ever be taken.

I think participation in the electoral system, even when limited to protest voting, legitimizes the very state we should be trying to get rid of it, and shows the pervasive influence of bourgeois ideology in the hope that there's still time you save ourselves through state machinery.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

What?!!!Isn't the green party some liberal-capitalist anti communist party?

What do you expect from parliamentary politics? That is the paradox, because revolution does not arise out of parliamentary politics and never will.

[liono4407]

I do agree with the statement that parliamentary politics does not breed true revolution. No true revolution can be one in the electoral system the US has, ever. I want to register under a party as an act of support for a party that I believe is closest to representing my communist beliefs. For right now I'm looking at SPUSA and PSL. If Socialist Alternative was in NYS I'd think of registering under them too. SPUSA and PSL both look like decent parties but I'm leaning more towards SPUSA right now.

If I wanted to make a good joke I could register under CPUSA. :lol:

[Kassad]

I'd point you towards the Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL). We're a relatively new Marxist-Leninist party. If you have any questions about our line, activity or how to become a member, let me know and I'll get back to you as soon as possible. Here's some contact information about the New York branch: http://www.pslweb.org/site/PageServer?pagename=NewYork

We actually just ran a very successful campaign for Mayor of New York, which stirred up a lot of activity and growth for the party. Our website is www.PSLWeb.org (http://www.PSLWeb.org). Let me know if you have any questions.

[NecroCommie]

"Toppling the bourgeois government could not have been possible without the reforms of the soviets and their moods ...We did not declare a boycott on the bourgeois parliament, a gathering of society, for since the party conference on march (1917) our party officially stated that a bourgeoisie republic with such a gathering is superior to a similar republic without such gatherings... Without the bourgeois parliament the october revolution could not have been possible..."

V.I. Lenin on "left-wing communism, an infantile disorder" translated from finnish to english, and agreed by me.

My advice? Join and vote the party which has the biggest propability of igniting revolutionary thoughts.

[Comrade Gwydion]

Funny how PSL-members all advice PSL while SPUSA-members all advice SPUSA..... Who would have suspected:rolleyes:

Anyway, I know little about both of them. What I can tell is that the PSL website looks more flashy (= good, I guess) while their name is more cheesy (= bad I guess, although cheesy names attract more voters I think and thus have more chance of achiving something with your vote)

Any, do vote. I have allways believed that although reformism isn't going to bring socialism, it can help give the people better standards of living. Reformism and Revolution are two means that should both be used at the same time.

[Manifesto]

"If voting changed anything they'd make it illegal." Seems like a good place to quote that.:D

[CELMX]

CPUSA = fail
don't do it
same w/ socialist party of usa

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

You can also look into the socialist equality party:

http://socialequality.com/

They're run candidates there in the past.

[chegitz guevara]

Registering for a specific party is pretty much irrelevant. Rules vary, state by state, but registering to vote for a party is not the same as being a member. The Socialist Party of Florida, for example, has around 700 known registered voters (privacy laws don't let us know anyone who opts out of being reported). The SPFL, however, only has around 50 actual members. In addition, some actual members of the SPFL aren't even registered as our voters, as they want to be able to vote in the Democratic Primary (I am totally against this practice and such folks are prohibited from holding office in the organization).

The SPFL, PSL, etc., don't have primary votes, so the only advantage of registering as a voter for a party doesn't exist here. In addition, parties like the Green Party US and Peace and Freedom only consider the results of primaries advisory, and the convention delegates typically pick whomever they want (which is how the Greens got McKinney, despite the fact that Nader had more support from the voters).

The truth is, being an officially registered voter is pointless. Nor do I advocate joining any specific organization. Your best bet is to work with which ever groups exist locally. If you're in the perfect group, but you're the only member in your state, part of the state, city, etc., it's awful, it burns you out, and you end up dropping out of politics. If an imperfect group is the only one available, join it, unless it's cult, ala the Socialist Equality Party or the Socialist Workers Party or the Revolutionary Communist Party. You won't be doing politics if you join one of those types of organizations, just selling papers, and if you're really lucky, working in the Party leader's factory.

[Zeus the Moose]

Registering to vote isn't the particularly big issue here. Many states don't allow people to register into any socialists parties, though I've seen some registration statistics in New York which include the Socialist Workers Party, so you might be able to register as such. Nevertheless, socialist organisations don't work like "traditional" political parties in the US, so the question is what group to join, not what to register as.

That said, it doesn't particularly narrow down your choices, particularly since New York City means that almost every socialist groups in the US has members in New York. Going geographically, the International Socialist Organization (http://www.internationalsocialist.org) and the Workers World Party (http://www.workersworld.net/) both seem to have contacts in Rochester, so you might want to check them out. In terms of its politics and activity, you could definitely do worse than the ISO, and there are a few ISO members on here that you could talk to for more info. I'm less sold on Workers World, but take a look for yourself.

For my part <plugplugplug> I'd recommend looking into the Socialist Party USA (http://www.socialistparty-usa.org), and I'd be happy to answer questions if you're interested. Chegitz Guevara and The Human Condition are also SP members, so you might want to talk to them as well.</plugplugplug>

[Spawn of Stalin]

I have a question about SP-USA, why did your Presidential candidate describe Communism as "very authoritarian" live on Fox News? I'm sorry but this is something that has been bothering me for a while and I just want to know if this reflects the general opinion of SP-USA and if it doesn't, why was he selected as your candidate?

[Q]

Funny how PSL-members all advice PSL while SPUSA-members all advice SPUSA..... Who would have suspected:rolleyes:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3250/3009698505_6991321a4b.jpg

"Wij van wc-eend adviseren wc-eend"

;)

[Kassad]

I do agree with the statement that parliamentary politics does not breed true revolution. No true revolution can be one in the electoral system the US has, ever. I want to register under a party as an act of support for a party that I believe is closest to representing my communist beliefs. For right now I'm looking at SPUSA and PSL. If Socialist Alternative was in NYS I'd think of registering under them too. SPUSA and PSL both look like decent parties but I'm leaning more towards SPUSA right now.

If I wanted to make a good joke I could register under CPUSA. :lol:

Members of Socialist Party USA come in two types. They're either revolutionary Marxists, such as chegitz guevara and Stancel on here, or they're social-democrats who see 'revolution' happening through electoral action.

Unfortunately, at the moment, Socialist Party USA, despite the things I hear that revolutionaries are gaining a majority in the party, is still social-democratic. Here's what they say about electoral action.


Socialists participate in the electoral process to present socialist alternatives. The Socialist Party does not divorce electoral politics from other strategies for basic change. While a minority, we fight for progressive changes compatible with a socialist future. When a majority we will rapidly introduce socialist reforms, with priority to the elimination of the power of big business through public ownership and workers' control.
Source: http://vote-socialist.org/

Emphasis is mine.

This infers that they are using the electoral field to gain a majority in the capitalist legislature, which is a part of the bourgeois state. Sadly, you will find not one mention of Marx, proletarian revolution or anything like it on Socialist Party USA's platform or program. If you're looking for a party that realizes that electoral reform and reformism will not bring about workers control and revolution, Socialist Party USA is not for you.

On the other hand, the Party for Socialism and Liberation uses elections as a means of promoting revolutionary socialism, while realizing the bourgeois elections will not bring about proletarian control.


Our party knows that revolution is necessary. We fight for reforms that ease the burden on workers and oppressed people, but ultimately reforms are not enough. We know that revolutions are made in the streets, in the factories and other workplaces, and in the military units when workers—in and out of uniform—become conscious that the power of the capitalist bosses and the generals must be replaced with the power of the people. This is the message that the PSL will bring through its intervention in the 2008 elections.
Source: http://www.pslweb.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=7994

Emphasis is mine again. Here you can clearly see the difference between a social-democratic electoral platform and a revolutionary Marxist platform. In the end, picking a party is not an issue to be taken lightly. It is a commitment to revolution and socialism, but if a party is calling merely to 'become a majority', how will workers control ever be realized? I hope you'll take that into consideration.

[chegitz guevara]

Chegitz Guevara and The Human Condition

Sounds like the name of a rock band. :laugh:


I have a question about SP-USA, why did your Presidential candidate describe Communism as "very authoritarian" live on Fox News? I'm sorry but this is something that has been bothering me for a while and I just want to know if this reflects the general opinion of SP-USA and if it doesn't, why was he selected as your candidate?

Brain was selected for a couple of reasons. The leading candidate going in was Comrade Eric Chester. Eric is a very nice person, with very good political instincts, good politics (revolutionary), and a case of foot-in-mouth disease. Eric is, ironically, both an opponent of democratic centralism and one of the biggest democratic centralists I've ever met. If you break one of the party's rules, Eric wants to make sure you're disciplined for it, even though most of our resolutions aren't written down any place accessible (I agree with Eric, btw, but I think it's unprincipled to hold people to rules they can't find). So Eric is fairly unpopular with that section of the party which doesn't feel bound by party democracy, i.e., the social democrats.

The only other two candidates were Stewart Alexander, of the Peace and Freedom Party, and Brian Moore. Stewart was a socialist before seeking the candidacy, while Brian's story is that he only discovered he was a socialist after reading our principles and platform. Personally, I did not believe him at the time, but the campaign is over and he's stuck with the party and claims he will not be running for office again (so his wife won't divorce him).

Brian came to the convention with three big pluses in his favor. One, he was from Florida, so the Florida delegation was on his side (including me), because we thought he could help us put the Florida organization back together, by having him tour the state, speaking, winning people to the party. Even before he joined the SPUSA, he had gotten in the press that he was seeking our nomination, and he had a demonstrated ability to get in the news. Three, Brian could raise money, and had already raised several thousand dollars. He proved to us he was serious about running. So that's how we got Brian.

Brian, as a new socialist, obviously wasn't the most qualified to spread our politics. I was impressed, however, that whenever he said something that the left wing in the party had serious problems with, he'd listen, and then he'd change himself. So, over time, he has radicalized considerably. He may not consider himself a communist, but he doesn't side with the social democrats.

As for Communism being very authoritarian, do you want to seriously argue that the USSR, DPRK, PRC,etc., were not very authoritarian? It is the official position of our organization. It's in the Statement of Principles, 'authoritarian "Communism."' :cursing:. One faction tried to get that position changed to read Stalinism. We compromised by adding the word "authoritarian."

I tried to have it removed altogether. No questions is more divisive on the left that the discussion of the nature of the USSR. I personally think it's self-defeating to be divided over something that no longer exists. So while I think it's fair to discuss it (my own position seems to be nearer to Marcy's), I think it's shooting ourselves in the foot to refuse to work together because we disagree.

[MarxSchmarx]

If they're still around (I have no idea if they are), you might consider the working families party. My understanding is that they have something of a presence in the working class suburbs of NYC. THey used to organize around pretty local issues, kind of bread and butter type things like civil rights, tenants rights police brutality and union organizing issues. While they struck me as lacking a strong ideology, the people i knew who were involved with them tended to see workign with them as a pragmatic and short-term expediency. However, I guess in new york there's some kind of weird provision that allows for third parties to sort of endorse mainstream candidates and have their votes for the mainstream candidates attributed to the party.

In any event, they've tried to stay out of the sectarian fray, although I have no idea what their current situation is.

[Die Neue Zeit]

The Working Families "Party" is, unfortunately, a front group for the Democratic party. I'm with the SP-USA gang, but I'd also suggest considering the Workers Party in America and, if you have the stomach to fight a long fight against a degenerating party leadership, the DeLeonist group Socialist Labor Party (the world's second-oldest socialist party, too).


Brian came to the convention with three big pluses in his favor. One, he was from Florida, so the Florida delegation was on his side (including me), because we thought he could help us put the Florida organization back together, by having him tour the state, speaking, winning people to the party. Even before he joined the SPUSA, he had gotten in the press that he was seeking our nomination, and he had a demonstrated ability to get in the news. Three, Brian could raise money, and had already raised several thousand dollars. He proved to us he was serious about running. So that's how we got Brian.

Brian, as a new socialist, obviously wasn't the most qualified to spread our politics. I was impressed, however, that whenever he said something that the left wing in the party had serious problems with, he'd listen, and then he'd change himself. So, over time, he has radicalized considerably. He may not consider himself a communist, but he doesn't side with the social democrats.

From what I've read in this post, it seems that you guys have found a smaller version of "Red Oskar" but without the opportunism... I hope.

[Revy]

From what I've read in this post, it seems that you guys have found a smaller version of "Red Oskar" but without the opportunism... I hope.

It was not known that he would say the things he did. Can parties be psychic and know that? The lesson learned is, nominate people with a greater knowledge of revolutionary socialist ideas, who have been in the party for longer than a few months. The nomination was very slim majority for Brian Moore, by 5 votes, so Eric Chester could have won.

However, all three socialist campaigns did not succeed in doing much to make a blip on the radar. Although many people are open to the idea of socialism, socialist parties are still alien to them, and without a major change in political consciousness, socialist campaigns will continue to not gain much support.

I think I said before here that it's revolutionary conditions that create truly revolutionary parties.

[communard resolution]

I don't think you can compare the situation of the SPD in the German Parliament to any bourgeois elections nowadays, especially within the US. The nature of the US electoral system and branches of government effectively prohibit any sort of working-class power to be assumed within them anymore. The very atmosphere of congress stifles any actual political action to ever be taken

What are the differences between the German parliament then and the US parliament now that render an 'In The Enemy Camp (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Enemy-Camp-Using-Parliament-Revolution/dp/1874123047)' type approach by communists impotent/unfeasible? I don't live in the US and am not familiar with the electoral system there.

Would you say the same about British and European parliaments, or do you differentiate?

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ Nero, all too often many so-called Marxists downplay the "superstructure"; in this case, the various electoral systems used is the key, whether first-past-the-post or some form of proportional representation. Also, if I'm not mistaken the primary system in the US is a big obstruction towards the emergence of third parties (even if the Green party renamed itself the Progressive Party ;) ).


It was not known that he would say the things he did. Can parties be psychic and know that? The lesson learned is, nominate people with a greater knowledge of revolutionary socialist ideas, who have been in the party for longer than a few months. The nomination was very slim majority for Brian Moore, by 5 votes, so Eric Chester could have won.

However, all three socialist campaigns did not succeed in doing much to make a blip on the radar. Although many people are open to the idea of socialism, socialist parties are still alien to them, and without a major change in political consciousness, socialist campaigns will continue to not gain much support.

I think I said before here that it's revolutionary conditions that create truly revolutionary parties.

The SPD wasn't founded under "revolutionary conditions," though. Just keep that in mind. ;)

[chegitz guevara]

What are the differences between the German parliament then and the US parliament now that render an 'In The Enemy Camp (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Enemy-Camp-Using-Parliament-Revolution/dp/1874123047)' type approach by communists impotent/unfeasible? I don't live in the US and am not familiar with the electoral system there.

Would you say the same about British and European parliaments, or do you differentiate?

The main thing is that it is nearly impossible to be elected when your candidate is not one of the two main parties. Third Party candidates are not taken seriously by the capitalist media, so we tend not to make much of an impact on the campaign.

However, the election campaign affords us the opportunity to get in front of many more people than we normally would, to spread our politics. No one calls up chegitz guevara, Socialist Party/Kasama Project member, to ask his opinion. Many people, however, write to chegitz guevara, Socialist Party candidate for Congress, and ask him to come speak.

If a candidate actually won, the position would most definitely be a platform from which to expound revolutionary communist politics.

[MarxSchmarx]

The Working Families "Party" is, unfortunately, a front group for the Democratic party.

Oh - ok. Thanks for the clarification. Yeah in that case I'd stay away from them.