Fall of the Berlin Wall

[Pogue]

Well its the anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall. The BBC has a good article here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8347695.stm

A good day for freedom, as a physical manifestation of the divisions authoritarian regimes put between sections of the working class, a tool of fear and oppression, was literally smashed to pieces by ordinary people.

Good stories on the BBC site, I like the bits about people previously scared of the guards now felt empowered.

[fatpanda]

You do know that the bbc and other western media doesn't distinguish between "State-capitalist" or "socialist" right?For them its all the same , because they are hypocritical anti-communists!
They do not celebrate so called "freedom" but the triumph of western imperialism.

Why don't they also celebrate the fall of the
Apartheid regime, the fall of Suhartos regime or protest against Israels wall in Palestine?!

[Pogue]

You do know that the bbc and other western media doesn't distinguish between "State-capitalist" or "socialist" right?For them its all the same , because they are hypocritical anti-communists!
They do not celebrate so called "freedom" but the triumph of western imperialism.

Why don't they also celebrate the fall of the
Apartheid regime, the fall of Suhartos regime or protest against Israels wall in Palestine?!

They do celebrate the fall of the apartheid regime.

But I agree they are hypocrites, they'll support this sturggle whilst conemdening others, the article is still good though.

[Lyev]

You do know that the bbc and other western media doesn't distinguish between "State-capitalist" or "socialist" right?For them its all the same , because they are hypocritical anti-communists!
They do not celebrate so called "freedom" but the triumph of western imperialism.

Why don't they also celebrate the fall of the
Apartheid regime, the fall of Suhartos regime or protest against Israels wall in Palestine?!

I think 'they' probably do celebrate these things. Definitely the end of Apartheid. Although to an extent I agree with you. For those silly people that conflate communism with totalitarianism they see the fall the of the Berlin wall as a victory for the west, freedom and democracy. It's a dissolution of what they see as the 'evil empire', in Reagan's words 'freedom and democracy will leave Marxism and Leninism on the ash heap of history.' And there's also those annoying people that think 'communism has failed', and was sort de-bunked as an ideology altogether with the failure of such regimes. I guess capitalism will seize upon any sort of propaganda that's going put itself into a positive light. On a lighter note, I found this quite amusing; instead of commemorating the fall of the wall Google are commemorating something altogether more relevant and important; the 40th anniversary of Sesame Street- http://www.google.co.uk/logos/count_von_count-hp.gif:lol:

[Wanted Man]

I read that Lech Walesa attacked Gorbachev today. He felt that Gorbi had almost nothing to do with the fall of the wall, and that the vast majority of it was thanks to Solidarnosc and the Pope. Funny how all the great "heroes" of '89 are just a bunch of egos who will fight each other for a place in history. The fact is that these "great men" were mostly interested in co-opting and manipulating the collective anger at the Wall and other things from the start. They were at the forefront of restoring capitalism, but they came from the "communist" revisionist cliques in their countries in the first place. An important historical lesson.

[redflag32]

Interview with former President of the GDR (http://communistperspective.blogspot.com/2009/11/interview-with-former-president-of-gdr.html)

[Andropov]

I posted this not so long ago so will repost it again as it is relevant......

The wall was a necessity.
It wasnt black and white where people are saying that Germans immigrating into West Berlin was an indication that the DDR was a failed state etc.
It merely shows us that when the West pumps billions into an economy beside a sustainable Socialist economy people will leave.
Its inevitable becase West Berlin was offering better living standards because of it being bank rolled.
It was a propaganda stunt by the west to show on the tellys of the west Germans, showing residents from the DDR "fleeing" East Berlin.
But when put into material context we can analyse that East and West Berlin wasnt an even playing field, one was attempting to establish a sustainable centrally planned socialist state and the other was merely being fed billions in aid by the west.
Isnt it odd how there wasnt a massive wall built along the East/West German border if the DDR was that oppresive?
Its sad to see Leftists here buying into Cold War propaganda without looking at the material context of the situation.