Moving to France? BBC poll: only 11% worldwide think capitalism is working

[cyu]

Excerpts from http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/8347409.stm

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46684000/gif/_46684877_world_service_captial_466.gif

Twenty years after the fall of the Berlin Wall, a new BBC poll has found widespread dissatisfaction with free-market capitalism.

In the global poll for the BBC World Service, only 11% of those questioned across 27 countries said that it was working well.

There were also sharp divisions around the world on whether the end of the Soviet Union was a good thing.

More than 29,000 people in 27 countries were questioned. In only two countries, the United States and Pakistan, did more than one in five people feel that capitalism works well as it stands.

Almost a quarter - 23% of those who responded - feel it is fatally flawed. That is the view of 43% in France, 38% in Mexico and 35% in Brazil.

And there is very strong support around the world for governments to distribute wealth more evenly. That is backed by majorities in 22 of the 27 countries.

[Look at what Russians think: ]
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46684000/gif/_46684876_world_service_soviet_466.gif

[pranabjyoti]

The "bustard broadcasting corporation" has exaggerated results favoring imperialism. I don't think they produced proper results.

[ls]

The "bustard broadcasting corporation" has exaggerated results favoring imperialism. I don't think they produced proper results.

It's a pretty good result I thought, even from them.

[NecroCommie]

This poll just found it's way to my parent's e-mail. :cool: "I told you so!"

[MarxSchmarx]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46684000/gif/_46684877_world_service_captial_466.gif

Huh. For once Americans aren't at the bottom of the pile.

[scarletghoul]

It's worth noting that all of those countries are capitalist. If they'd included China, Nepal, Venezuela, DPRK, etc, I'm sure the figures would be very differant. And obviously poorer countries are grossly underrepresented in this, which also hugely distorts the figures.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Huh. For once Americans aren't at the bottom of the pile.

Yeah, it's Germany that worries me the most, actually.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

US and Pakistan have the most liberals it seems
coincidentally, neither are at all attractive to me

[Andropov]

Progressive poll to say the least.

[cyu]

it's Germany that worries me the most


Looks like Germany just has more moderates and the US has more people at the two extremes...

[NecroCommie]

Which is very european of germans... :closedeyes:

[MarxSchmarx]

Actually I wonder how Germany breaks down by East/West.

[Intelligitimate]

To quote Gowans:



Nowhere is the incidental (and not causal) connection between socialism and poverty more evident than in the former German Democratic Republic (East Germany) where the regression to capitalism has done nothing to close the gap with the former West Germany or make the lives of east Germans better. After experiencing two decades of a resurrected capitalism, half of east Germans want to return to what they had before. Reuters, hardly known for promoting socialism, revealed that a public opinion poll had found that 52 percent of east Germans had no confidence in capitalism, and most of them wanted to return to a socialist economy. Here’s what east Germans told Reuters’ (5).
Thomas Pivitt, a 46-year-old IT worker from east Berlin:

“We read about the ‘horrors of capitalism’ in school. They really got that right. Karl Marx was spot on. I had a pretty good life before the Wall fell. No one worried about money because money didn’t really matter. You had a job even if you didn’t want one. The communist idea wasn’t all that bad.”
Hermann Haibel, a 76-year old retired blacksmith:

“I thought communism was shit but capitalism is even worse. The free market is brutal. The capitalist wants to squeeze out more, more, more.”
Monika Weber, a 46-year-old city clerk:

“I don’t think capitalism is the right system for us. The distribution of wealth is unfair. We’re seeing that now. The little people like me are going to have to pay for this financial mess with higher taxes because of greedy bankers.”
Ralf Wulff:

“It took just a few weeks to realize what the free market economy was all about. It’s rampant materialism and exploitation. Human beings get lost. We didn’t have the material comforts but communism still had a lot going for it.”

[punisa]

must... move... to..... France ! :lol:

But seriously, speaking of France - I think you might be interested in checking out the Composition of the Council of Paris (2009):

Socialist Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_%28France%29) 72
Union for a Popular Movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_for_a_Popular_Movement) 55
the Greens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Greens_%28France%29) 9
French Communist Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Communist_Party) 8
New Centre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Centre) 8
Citizen and Republican Movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen_and_Republican_Movement) 5
Miscellaneous Left 2
Left Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_Party_%28France%29) 2
MoDem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Movement_%28France%29) 1

I really like those numbers :D
If anyone wants to move to Paris, PM me ; D

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Manif_Paris_2005-11-19_dsc06238.jpg/770px-Manif_Paris_2005-11-19_dsc06238.jpg

[*Viva La Revolucion*]

I want to move to Paris! Let's all go now and start a revolution. :p

It's disheartening to see that so many people in the UK still believe reforms will work. You'd think we'd know better by now.

[Andropov]

I find the most fascinating figures the contrast between the Ukrainians opinions on the demise of the Soviet Union and the Pols opinions on the demise of the Soviet Union.
Both from so called "occupied" nations under "imperialism".

[NecroCommie]

Polish have always been nationalist due to repeating invasions from all directions throughout it's history.

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

I totally want to move to France.

The reknowned knights of liberalism noticed this as well - arg, I can't post links, but go google "the triumph of Socialism"

[choff]

I had no idea France was so progressive. I should have paid more attention in my french class, I guess. :blink:

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I had no idea Germans Pakistanis and Canadians were so reactionary :(

[NecroCommie]

Well, I was always aware that the french working class is more conscious than the average european one, but I am still somewhat surprised.

[jesper]

Well i hink that germany must be hugely split since i seem to remember that the left wing parties in have got quite a lot of votes from east germany, not completely sure though.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I wonder how that little green fraction managed to elect those disgusting neoliberals (cdu)

[Drace]

Germany surprised me here.
In another smaller pole, it was completely the opposite. Majority of Germans said they thought capitalism wasn't working.
That was only based on like a 1000 people though.

[Wakizashi the Bolshevik]

Well it looks I might need to visit our southern neighbour more often. Vive la France:cool:

[eyedrop]

How did that Sarcovski (?) dude get into power in France though.

The least they could do is elect a "socialist" party who speaks sweet and introduces shitty reactionairy reforms.

[Yazman]

It's worth noting that all of those countries are capitalist. If they'd included China, Nepal, Venezuela, DPRK, etc, I'm sure the figures would be very differant. And obviously poorer countries are grossly underrepresented in this, which also hugely distorts the figures.

LOL @ saying China & Venezuela aren't capitalist!

[9]

Do we know the sample sizes for this survey?

[Oneironaut]

Do we know the sample sizes for this survey?

Quoted from the article: "29,000 people in 27 countries were questioned"

[9]

Quoted from the article: "29,000 people in 27 countries were questioned"

Yeah, I was actually just scouring the article and I saw that. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to go into any further details about the distribution of those 29,000 people. I wonder if the samples were equal (highly doubtful) from country to country. I also wonder exactly how the question was phrased. I wonder how many of those 29,000 were asked the first question and not the second, and vice versa. In light of the fact that there are some countries present on one of the questions and not the other, it's quite curious.

[NecroCommie]

How did that Sarcovski (?) dude get into power in France though.

The least they could do is elect a "socialist" party who speaks sweet and introduces shitty reactionairy reforms.
It's called parliamentarism and not democracy for a reason. But yeah I know what you mean, one would think that the french leftism would show somehow.

[9]

^If I'm remembering correctly, Sarkozy was neck and neck with a pseudo-socialist candidate named "something Royal" for a while. A social democrat from the French 'Socialist' Party.

[RHIZOMES]

How did that Sarcovski (?) dude get into power in France though.

The least they could do is elect a "socialist" party who speaks sweet and introduces shitty reactionairy reforms.

Alain Badiou did a good analysis of this in "The Meaning of Sarkozy". Basically saying that there are two Frances, one represented by people such as Sarkozy and another in the spirit of May 68. or something like that. France is still one of the most progressive first-world countries on earth (in terms of the people not the government). When Sarkozy was elected there were riots. :lol:

[Angry Young Man]

Why is there so much surprise about France having the highest disaffection with capitalism? Marxists were vital in the French resistance, the Trades Unions have traditionally been tied to the PCF, there were the events in May 1968.

I think what needs to be drawn attention to is that only 11% of those polled support free-market capitalism. We always need to properly understand opinion of the far-left.

BTW, if those who said so are serious about moving to Paris,...

[Stranger Than Paradise]

How can we know how accurate these surveys are and how representative of the working population they are. Surely considering this is from the BBC we can assume the numbers have been deflated somewhat.

[NecroCommie]

Why is there so much surprise about France having the highest disaffection with capitalism? Marxists were vital in the French resistance...
This brings to mind the most outrageous hijacking of history by nationalists. Why is it that all the european anti-nazi guerrillas and resistance movements have been hijacked by ultra-nationalist twats in history books, when the reality was that pretty much the only people taking arms against the fascists were internationalist marxists and anarchists? If there is something disgusting and heinous in this world then I vote for nationalism. :sneaky:

[eyedrop]

This brings to mind the most outrageous hijacking of history by nationalists. Why is it that all the european anti-nazi guerrillas and resistance movements have been hijacked by ultra-nationalist twats in history books, when the reality was that pretty much the only people taking arms against the fascists were internationalist marxists and anarchists? If there is something disgusting and heinous in this world then I vote for nationalism. :sneaky:

Hmmm, it's not suprising that the only Norwegian resistance movements I can name are the british funded/orchestred heavy water sabotage groups, and the british funded group led my Max Manus (who just got the biggest movie ever in Norway.)

While I can't say I ever heard about any communist resistance group although I know they were damn strong here before the war. Some rudimentary googling suggests that the communists resistance groups where actually "heavily worked against" by the british and the government in exile, if wiki is to be trusted. A good thing to know that the bourgouise had their priorities right.

[NecroCommie]

Hmmm, it's not suprising that the only Norwegian resistance movements I can name are the british funded/orchestred heavy water sabotage groups, and the british funded group led my Max Manus (who just got the biggest movie ever in Norway.)

While I can't say I ever heard about any communist resistance group although I know they were damn strong here before the war. Some rudimentary googling suggests that the communists resistance groups where actually "heavily worked against" by the british and the government in exile, if wiki is to be trusted. A good thing to know that the bourgouise had their priorities right.
The Jugoslavian partisans were mainly marxists, as were the french. Needless to say that the, albeit less numerous resistance movements in the conquered soviet union were also marxist, at least theoretically. Also the Greek resistance was heavily red. Pretty much the only major nationalist resistance I can think of is the dutch. Feel free to correct me if something seems wrong.

Ofcourse I am talking strictly about the second big brawl.

[eyedrop]

The Jugoslavian partisans were mainly marxists, as were the french. Needless to say that the, albeit less numerous resistance movements in the conquered soviet union were also marxist, at least theoretically. Also the Greek resistance was heavily red. Pretty much the only major nationalist resistance I can think of is the dutch. Feel free to correct me if something seems wrong.

Ofcourse I am talking strictly about the second big brawl.

I don't know very much about ww2 unfortunately, due to it being pushed down my throath too much for my to ever wanting to any real research on it. I know almost nothing about the resistance movements in differing parts of Europe.

I was just commenting on how official history, and current events, are always rewritten (biased) in favour of the status quo. Norwegian citizens resistance wasn't all that great in the first place and not too much to be proud of anyway, as far as I'm aware.

[cyu]

it doesn't seem to go into any further details about the distribution of those 29,000 people. I wonder if the samples were equal (highly doubtful) from country to country. I also wonder exactly how the question was phrased.

See http://www.globescan.com/news_archives/bbc2009_berlin_wall/demoquest.html

More: http://www.globescan.com/news_archives/bbc2009_berlin_wall/

[RHIZOMES]

I don't know very much about ww2 unfortunately, due to it being pushed down my throath too much for my to ever wanting to any real research on it. I know almost nothing about the resistance movements in differing parts of Europe.

I'm in a similar situation, whenever I think of WWI and WWII, I immediately think of reactionary ANZAC day glory-to-the-British-empire Kiwi nationalism.