Russia's Nazism is very worrying, but have faith. The left in Russia will win again!

[AntifaAustralia]

It seems that hope is lost for Russia, especially for their youth. WTF? HELL NO!!! RUSSIA IS THE HOME OF SOCIALISM! ANTIFA WILL RISE IN RUSSIA!!!

Here are some Militant Communist Russians. Some of this is a bit old i think, Boris Yeltsin days i believe. Some anti-nazi clips here as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zzRxCyrscg (AKM 1917 com group, attacks Nazis and burns flag)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9Azx4M1coU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElNRFlFw4xY (this one has a Crazy mob on mob charge attack with communists and nazis)

[Batman]

Is that last video not National Bolsevik?

[Batman]

And who are those AKM 1917 lads? :confused:

[An archist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbeUOUebS0E

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Bolshevik_Party

[Steve_j]

Is that last video not National Bolsevik?

Lol, by no means our comrades.

[Ravachol]

The latter are indeed National Bolsheviks, a dirty fascist permutation of the strasserist kind. They seek to merge ultra-nationalism, soviet-nostalgia, anti-semitism and strasserist (NOT Marxist-Leninist) economics.
They're a typical Russian phenomenon akin to the 'autonomous nationalists' in Germany and the National-Socialist Action in the Netherlands. Historically however, there have been National-Bolshevist movements in the 1920's in France and Germany (Ernst Niekisch) who where nothing more than third-positionists (Again a permutation of fascism) seeing Stalin as a fuhrer-figure and a Nationalist.

It should be clear National-Bolshevism is hostile to class-struggle and the left in general and should by no means be considered an ally. Quite the contrary in fact. It should be opposed wherever it arises, together with all other fascist syncretic movements like 'National-Anarchism','National-Syndicalism',etc. They are hostile to class-struggle and genuine leftists should not be confused by their symbols and rethoric.

[Steve_j]

Off topic: question for the op: what are your politics? You mention russia as the home of socialism (which makes me think you are of the bolshevik offshoots) but your avatar suggests you are anarchist?

[POUM]

I heard that there were two fractions of the russian Nazbols and that one were antisemitic and racists while the other werent?


AntifaAustralia..these videos are
a) ancient
b) mostly stalinist or 3rd positionists

On the other hand, i have heard that the numbers of boneheads in the big cities have diminished,especially of those that are active nazis,not only lifestlye nazis. They are also met with physical resistance by the russian Antifa and apolitical SHARP. I am not sure to which extent they have diminished but the situation is not as grave in Eastren Europe and Poland as it used to be. If there are users from these countries i would appreciate their comments.

On the other hand, the russian problem,when talking about the street level are the putinist youth organisations. That might be partly the reason of decline of the boneheads since a lot of these boneheads were backed by the government and now they have switched to a more moderate ideology but with a more organised stand against anti-government forces.

[Ravachol]

I heard that there were two fractions of the russian Nazbols and that one were antisemitic and racists while the other werent?


Well it's a bit more difficult. The Nazbol movement split into two factions, the Limonovists and the Anti-Limonovist tendency (sometimes called the National Bolshevik Front, although the NBF doesn't exist anymore). The Anti-Limonovist tendency, examplified by the ESM (Eurasian Youth Union) of Alexander Dugin is openly fascist and racist.
The Limonovist tendency is also racist in nature but claims it is not. It's political positions and alliances with antisemitic reactionaries however speak for themselves. There are some Nazbol groups in the Ukraine which went full circle though actually rejecting racism to the point of including black members. Their 'national' part of Nazbol is nothing more than childish chauvinism. I wouldn't want to work with them but they aren't threatening. The former two (Limonovist Nazbols and the ESM tendency) however are to be opposed wherever they arise.



On the other hand, the russian problem,when talking about the street level are the putinist youth organisations. That might be partly the reason of decline of the boneheads since a lot of these boneheads were backed by the government and now they have switched to a more moderate ideology but with a more organised stand against anti-government forces.

Yeah, NASHI are a problem. They're ultra-nationalist themselves, borderline racist, authoritarian and highly violent. And backed by the state no less. They attack Nazbols, Liberals, Anarchists, Communists and every other single movement that isn't fully aligned to United Russia (Ruling Party). There have been rumors they co-operated with DPNI (Movement Against Illegal Immigration, a hardline armed racist organisation commiting murders against immigrants) though. All in all a troublesome country indeed.

[AntifaAustralia]

Sorry Batman and everyone I didn't know they were Nazbols. Their Hammer and sickle symbol looked very strange i realised at first. Batman i have no clue who and what AKM1917 is. I just saw them burning a Nazi flag and representing militant leftism. They have a website but i donot know Russian. They seem pretty active in activism, and it looks militant, and looks good for the 2nd revolution. Steve_j the russian revolution and lenin was a serious and still is a serious influencial marxist. Anti-fascism is is communist and anarchist. We had that unity untill the 1st communist international and split, let's bring on that unity again the capitalists so dislike. Also revleft is communist anarchist and Antifa. Antifa is a front that is almost like the First International AKA International Workingmen's Association dont you think? I should add some red to that flag. Nashi movement and Putin capitalist movement violent? i thought they were soft centre aligned anti-fascists. It is not good that the state, and especially a capitalist state is funding the anti-fascist movement. So far the AKM1917 (whom a freaking got no clue about) and the tradional communist pro-soviets of Russia seem like the only left-wing front of anti-fascism.

[Sasha]

most "antifa" in russia (and the rest of eastern europe) is distinctly anarchist and hardcore anti-authoritarian, and for good reasons too.
anyone who considers the authoriatarian communist in russia as somewhat of an progresive force are complete idiots, they are anti-semite, racist nationalist and barely distinguesibel from the naz-bols

[Rjevan]

AKM is an independent communist youth organisation, though they have loose ties to both, the KPRF and the RCWP-RPC. They are pretty active and radical and take part at a lot of demonstrations.


anyone who considers the authoriatarian communist in russia as somewhat of an progresive force are complete idiots, they are anti-semite, racist nationalist and barely distinguesibel from the naz-bols
This is a perfect description of the KPRF, a party which completely sold out to the Putin government and if you take a short look at their website you can see funny things like "KPRF defending the Russian culture!" and pics of demonstrations with KPRF members proudly marching next to orthodox priests and nazbols. Also take a look at this KPRF masterpice, unapologetically copied from a thread by Woland (bold parts are mine):

... Immediately and completely exclude from the circle of acquaintances of the child the "guests of the capital" - Gypsies, Asians, Caucasians. No need to tell the child obscure and complex things. Simply explain: these people are not Russian and they are not like us. They may say one thing and do quite the opposite. They live differently, think differently, believe differently, even eat differently. (The child will easily understand and accept this - his mind is pure, and for him "strange" is the very appearance of these people!) Do not go near them! Do not speak to them! Do not answer their questions! Do not look at them! Do not turn to them for help, even if, for example, you are lost! Do not buy anything from them! THEY are not strangers. They are simply- different. But also tell them one more thing - if a ''different'' starts to behave arrogantly, he should be taught a lesson, either by you (if you have the strength), or tell older friends or parents.

And immediately in the first place absolutely forget all this nonsense about racism and nationalism. Do not buy the words that "there are no bad people ..."
http://www.revleft.com/vb/guess-t116552/index.html

But there is still the RCWP-RPC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Communist_Workers'_Party_%E2%80%93_Revolut ionary_Party_of_Communists), a genuine Marxist-Leninist party which condemns the KPRF and gets both verbally and physically attacked for this. As far as I can tell the RCWP-RPC (and their youth organisation RCYL(B)) is the only genuine communist party in Russia which is active in and committed to worker struggles and anti-fascism and they have my support.

[Ravachol]

Sorry Batman and everyone I didn't know they were Nazbols.


No problem, everyone makes mistakes. I've heard of people chatting with some blokes dressed like stereotype antifascists only to discover they were Autonomous Nationalists after a while.



Their Hammer and sickle symbol looked very strange i realised at first. Batman i have no clue who and what AKM1917 is. I just saw them burning a Nazi flag and representing militant leftism. They have a website but i donot know Russian. They seem pretty active in activism, and it looks militant, and looks good for the 2nd revolution.


AKM are independant communists, they aren't Nazbols.



Anti-fascism is is communist and anarchist. We had that unity untill the 1st communist international and split, let's bring on that unity again the capitalists so dislike.


Couldn't agree more.


Nashi movement and Putin capitalist movement violent? i thought they were soft centre aligned anti-fascists.


No way. They're homophobic, racist, nationalist thugs. The only reason they agressively confront the Nazbols is because they can't stand competition as nationalists.

[Honggweilo]

AKM are independant communists, they aren't Nazbols.

Autonomous Stalinists :lol:

[Pogue]

Autonomous Stalinists :lol:

I'm in on that

[Ravachol]

Autonomous Stalinists :lol:

http://libcom.org/files/imagecache/article/stalin%5B1%5D.jpg

THIS IS DELICIOUS STALINISM, YOU MUST EAT IT!

[palotin]

The Nazbol movement split into two factions, the Limonovists and the Anti-Limonovist tendency (sometimes called the National Bolshevik Front, although the NBF doesn't exist anymore). The Anti-Limonovist tendency, examplified by the ESM (Eurasian Youth Union) of Alexander Dugin is openly fascist and racist.

Does anyone know where I could get more information on the present state of the Limonovists? Also, does anyone know where I could find out more about links between anti-Limonovist NBF and the ESM?

[Kayser_Soso]

Dugin is most likely working directly for the Kremlin. AKM, as in AKM1917(Udaltsov), is run by the government as well as far as I know. I don't trust anyone here. Like the proverb goes: Не верь, не бойсья.

[Woland]

AKM, as in AKM1917(Udaltsov), is run by the government as well as far as I know. I don't trust anyone here. Like the proverb goes: Не верь, не бойсья.

???

[Kayser_Soso]

???


European governments often neutralize opposition groups by copying them, causing splits, or using groups with similar names. The thing with Dugin is pretty obvious, Limonov goes to the Other Russia block, and suddenly Dugin with his bizarre theories of "Empire" splits off, and just happens to support the Kremlin on major issues like the recent war on Georgia.

[Woland]

European governments often neutralize opposition groups by copying them, causing splits, or using groups with similar names. The thing with Dugin is pretty obvious, Limonov goes to the Other Russia block, and suddenly Dugin with his bizarre theories of "Empire" splits off, and just happens to support the Kremlin on major issues like the recent war on Georgia.

I'm more interested about the idea that AKM is run by the government. Care to explain?

[Ravachol]

Dugin is most likely working directly for the Kremlin. AKM, as in AKM1917(Udaltsov), is run by the government as well as far as I know. I don't trust anyone here. Like the proverb goes: Не верь, не бойсья.

Dugin is an interesting story, the man seems to have links to various promiment eurasian ultranationalist movements including the turkish Energekon network. Obviously these movements would benefit from Russian support and the Russian governement would be able to cultivate popular anti-american pro-russian sentiments in countries in it's geopolitical sphere of influence.

About AKM, well i'm not very well informed about the state of Marxism-Leninism in modern day Russia, so they could be governement-run and/or infiltrated, they look genuine though.

The state does these things all the time, sometimes by creating small but resource-consuming bogus movements like the Marxist-Leninist Party of the Netherlands (Maoist) which was completely set up by the Dutch intelligence agency. Sometimes by more horrific means, like operation Gladio and it's offshoots (the Turkish Counter-Guerilla, the Greek Sheepskin, CEDADE, Gehlen-Org, the Paladin Group, the Argentinian Anticommunist Alliance,etc)

I must say I have sympathy with you, Russia seems to be a place where I, as a leftist, wouldn't want to be at the moment. 'United Russia'-sponsored Ultranationalists, Neo-Nazi paramilitaries, Nazbols,etc.
My compliments to the leftists who keep the struggle alive under these dire conditions comrade. :thumbup1:

Also: what does the proverb mean?

[Kayser_Soso]

I'm more interested about the idea that AKM is run by the government. Care to explain?

There are two AKM groups. The group that is most likely legitimate is this one: trudoros.narod.ru. As for Udaltsov, several people involved in Russian politics have suggested that the group is basically a Kremlin front, at least infiltrated some way. I grew suspicious one time back in 2007 when I attended a march of AKM(Udaltsov). I had to work later that day and couldn't stay long, but apparently the march was unauthorized and the police kept trying to stop him from marching. He struggled with them quite violently and I couldn't believe they just kept letting him go. As far as I know he didn't get arrested, and I don't remember seeing anyone else hauled off. This is strange because I've seen rallies where ELDERLY people get hauled into a militia van.

Of course I've had other run-ins with suspicious people here, and as a result I'm no longer active in Russian politics, and probably won't be for a long time.

[Honggweilo]

Dugin is most likely working directly for the Kremlin. AKM, as in AKM1917(Udaltsov), is run by the government as well as far as I know. I don't trust anyone here. Like the proverb goes: Не верь, не бойсья.

I actually personally know some shady AKM characters (as well as some good people), and i might not be suprissed to see them being infiltrated, they are a result of a unorganized radical split of them as a youth movement from the mother party "workers party of russia". They have somewhat exactly the same memberbasis as the Nazbol's, and have a very provocative nature. They combine urban direct action with marxist-leninist ideology and bare a close resemblence to the german and american SDS in its radical years. Although due to their radical impulsive actions and loose structure are very prone to infiltration. Although i do not know the specifics, can you elaborate on that Kayser?

As far as Russia goes, i am a strong supporter of the Russian Communist Workers' Party – Revolutionary Party of Communists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Communist_Workers%27_Party_%E2%80%93_Revol utionary_Party_of_Communists) and their youth RCYL(b). Its the second biggest communist party after the KPRF, and also have a very young membership base. They take the most balance stances on subjects, are composed of the most progressive ellements from the former CPSU, do not have the extreme chauvinist additude of the KPRF, but still they dont try to brake communist unity in elections, are progressive on alot of social issues, strong international solidarity, and most importantly have armed defence against fascist and state repression.

[Kayser_Soso]

I must say I have sympathy with you, Russia seems to be a place where I, as a leftist, wouldn't want to be at the moment. 'United Russia'-sponsored Ultranationalists, Neo-Nazi paramilitaries, Nazbols,etc.
My compliments to the leftists who keep the struggle alive under these dire conditions comrade. :thumbup1:

Also: what does the proverb mean?

The proverb basically means "Don't trust, don't fear." Actually it sounds better like "Never trust, never fear." Anyway, to be honest I've never had any problems here connected to politics, just some near run-ins with suspicious characters. In my mind the neo-Nazi problem is a big one in the larger sense, but sometimes the media would make you think that the streets are teeming with skinheads. I'm far more worried about what the FSB could do.

As for Dugin, someone who was more familiar with their theories once tried to explain Dugin's ideas to me. Basically I said it was imperialism, and the answer was, "no it's not IMPERIALISM, it's IMPERIAL!!" Uh...right..ok. Basically it's a convoluted mess of nationalistic bullshit meant to soothe the aching pride of Russian youth with masturbatory fantasies of a great, paternalistic Russian empire.

[Honggweilo]

The proverb basically means "Don't trust, don't fear." Actually it sounds better like "Never trust, never fear." Anyway, to be honest I've never had any problems here connected to politics, just some near run-ins with suspicious characters. In my mind the neo-Nazi problem is a big one in the larger sense, but sometimes the media would make you think that the streets are teeming with skinheads. I'm far more worried about what the FSB could do.

As for Dugin, someone who was more familiar with their theories once tried to explain Dugin's ideas to me. Basically I said it was imperialism, and the answer was, "no it's not IMPERIALISM, it's IMPERIAL!!" Uh...right..ok. Basically it's a convoluted mess of nationalistic bullshit meant to soothe the aching pride of Russian youth with masturbatory fantasies of a great, paternalistic Russian empire.

We actually had a russian sympathizer of our movement here once who was from the AKM which spouted the same things; "a soviet eurasia under russian law and order centered in moscow"... (we never let him in though :p)

[Kayser_Soso]

I actually personally know some shady AKM characters (as well as some good people), and i might not be suprissed to see them being infiltrated, they are a result of a unorganized radical split of them as a youth movement from the mother party "workers party of russia". They have somewhat exactly the same memberbasis as the Nazbol's, and have a very provocative nature. They combine urban direct action with marxist-leninist ideology and bare a close resemblence to the german and american SDS in its radical years. Although due to their radical impulsive actions and loose structure are very prone to infiltration. Although i do not know the specifics, can you elaborate on that Kayser?

From the sound of things you are probably talking about the larger, Udaltsov faction, because the original one is at least in Moscow quite small by comparison. I don't really see a lot of serious ideology amongst the more popular youth groups. It's that sort of Soviet patriotism nonsense.

To be honest I can't be of much help anymore right now because I have been pretty much clean and clear of Russian politics for almost a year now, after becoming very suspicious with a contact of mine. She makes, or at least claims to make far too much trouble for the government of a certain autonomous republic and United Russia, yet doesn't seem to worry about how vulnerable she is. I won't get into details on a public forum, but there were just too many bizarre things surrounding that person.




As far as Russia goes, i am a strong supporter of the Russian Communist Workers' Party – Revolutionary Party of Communists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Communist_Workers%27_Party_%E2%80%93_Revol utionary_Party_of_Communists) and their youth RCYL(b). Its the second biggest communist party after the KPRF, and also have a very young membership base. They take the most balance stances on subjects, are composed of the most progressive ellements from the former CPSU, do not have the extreme chauvinist additude of the KPRF, but still they dont try to brake communist unity in elections, are progressive on alot of social issues, strong international solidarity, and most importantly have armed defence against fascist and state repression.

Armed defense? I find that hard to believe. Russia has strict laws on weapons. I think I'm already familiar with them, but I will still look them up just in case. I still wish to have limited contacts to Russian groups so as to keep up on things.

[Kayser_Soso]

We actually had a russian sympathizer of our movement here once who was from the AKM which spouted the same things; "a soviet eurasia under russian law and order centered in moscow"... (we never let him in though :p)

I would say there's no way in hell he could have been from the real AKM. Sadly, the real one is the smaller one. My position on future organizations is that a future "Soviet Union" would be more like the European Union, only with an actual democratic process of joining rather than the EU tactic of "SEND IT BACK!! SEND IT BACK UNTIL THEY PASS IT!!!" You know what I mean. One thing is for sure- Moscow will NOT be the center. Muscovite Russians fucked up. They were largely responsible for the break-up of the Soviet Union because they were living high on the hog off the backs of the other republics, and the youth in Moscow decided that what they had wasn't good enough for them. Probably one of the most fatal mistakes that Stalin allowed, was the tolerance of Russian national imagery and history, which was taken to extremes very quickly.

[Honggweilo]

I would say there's no way in hell he could have been from the real AKM. Sadly, the real one is the smaller one. Yes he was not a member of the orginal faction but of the Udalstov faction (the radical one without a motherparty). I read the newspaper of the original one and its was quite good.


My position on future organizations is that a future "Soviet Union" would be more like the European Union, only with an actual democratic process of joining rather than the EU tactic of "SEND IT BACK!! SEND IT BACK UNTIL THEY PASS IT!!!" You know what I mean. One thing is for sure- Moscow will NOT be the center. Muscovite Russians fucked up. They were largely responsible for the break-up of the Soviet Union because they were living high on the hog off the backs of the other republics, and the youth in Moscow decided that what they had wasn't good enough for them. Probably one of the most fatal mistakes that Stalin allowed, was the tolerance of Russian national imagery and history, which was taken to extremes very quickly.
so true, especially the tollerance of russian chauvinism and the reluctance against the orthodox church during the "great patriotic war" seriously contributed the downfall of the SU (i.e the Pamyat, NSU, eurasian movements, ect ect). Its funny how Reagan shed his crocodiletears about religious opression in the SU while infact it still played such an important role in its politics. It only proves the the SU has been to tollerant of religeous fundamentalism.

Also the european union isnt a real union its an anti-democratic monetary free-trade association with executive powers serving its shareholders (and we dont own shares :p)

[Robocommie]

So, I must admit I'm feeling a bit confused by all these groups, some of whom are clearly using Communist symbols without understanding Marxism.

At the risk of asking too simplistic a question, who are our friends in Russia? Who are the "good guys" if you can forgive such a loaded term?

[Kayser_Soso]

So, I must admit I'm feeling a bit confused by all these groups, some of whom are clearly using Communist symbols without understanding Marxism.

At the risk of asking too simplistic a question, who are our friends in Russia? Who are the "good guys" if you can forgive such a loaded term?

The folks at Proletarskaya Gazeta, that's for sure.

[Drace]

Turning communism into a gang?

[Die Neue Zeit]

I'd like to hear some comments on a post I caught on another board:

http://www.rabble.ca/babble/international-news-and-politics/russia-plans-%E2%80%98large-scale-rearming%E2%80%99


I have to take exception to your characterization of some domestic Russian opposition groups, although its substantial thread drift. Pamyat for example supported both Yelstin and Putin and is aligned with the Kremlin backed Movement Against Illegal Immigration, not to mention Putin Youth groups such as Nashi, the Young Guard and the National Bolshevik Front (not the NBP); they are fascists and racists but they aren't the opposition, they are the government. The National Bolshevik Party of 2009 is not the National Bolshevik Party of the early 90's, Dugin and his neo-nazi followers formed the National Bolshevik Front years ago and their "Eurasian" movement is now backed by the Kremlin (Dugin is a special "advisor" to the Putin regime); the remaining National Bolsheviks under Limonov have purged the neo-nazi/eurasianist elements of their party and brought in many young socialists and anarchists, they are allied with the Vanguard of Red Youth and act as a pressure group within the larger Communist movement (in short, they are real opposition forces). The Other Russia alliance is distasteful because it brings in American financed Kasparov and his Civic Front, not because of the NBP who despite their past are one of the only groups actually opposing the Kremlin in the streets (remember, the Kremlin now supports nationalist, fascists, and neo-nazis, these days Limonov's NBP supports Chechens and pensioners against the Kremlin). Okay thats my little rant on radical opposition groups versus radical Kremlin supported groups.

Socialists and anarchists in the modern National-Bolshevik party?