stranger marxist or anarchist groups

[cameron222]

can anyone give me ideas on groups that have STRANGE lines or ideologies? comparatively at least

my list: PLP - ex maoist with some unique theory, self developed
Alliance for Worker's Liberty - third camp with interesting international politics positions
Posadists - ufos and trotskyists that actually have guns
WSPUS - antileninist, antiluxembourgist, antileftcommunist Marxists
RAAN - anarchists that endorse marx but hope to firebomb bolshevik bookstores

I'd almost think bordigist left communists b/c so rare, and having unique views
and any you can think of.... maoist, platformist, stalinist, democratic socialist... all very boring, hundreds of groups have very similar platforms.
situationists:hippies

[h0m0revolutionary]

Alliance for Worker's Liberty - third camp with interesting international politics positions


They are not third camp. Third camp would be siding against imperialism. They suppirt the occupations of Iraq, Palestine and Afghanistan. They are social-imperialist FIRST campers.

[bcbm]

situationists:hippies

that doesn't even make sense.

[HEAD ICE]

The Church of His Holiness Bob Avakian is kinda strange imo

[Pogue]

L&S, anarcho bolshevik freaks

[The Ungovernable Farce]

SPGB: hardline revolutionaries with a well-worked out critique of Bolshevism and reformism...who still think that we should all just vote them into Parliament and then everything'll be fine.
Oh, and I'd add any Trot group that defended regimes that killed or jailed Trots as being "progressive" or "deformed workers' states" to that list.

[punisa]

can anyone give me ideas on groups that have STRANGE lines or ideologies? comparatively at least

my list: PLP - ex maoist with some unique theory, self developed
Alliance for Worker's Liberty - third camp with interesting international politics positions
Posadists - ufos and trotskyists that actually have guns
WSPUS - antileninist, antiluxembourgist, antileftcommunist Marxists
RAAN - anarchists that endorse marx but hope to firebomb bolshevik bookstores

I'd almost think bordigist left communists b/c so rare, and having unique views
and any you can think of.... maoist, platformist, stalinist, democratic socialist... all very boring, hundreds of groups have very similar platforms.
situationists:hippies

The list you just mentioned have one thing in common: they all have too much time on their hands.

[Искра]

To me the strangest groups are some anarchists collectives from Turkey which I heard off. You can't be member of those collectives if you drink, take drugs, smoke or fuck :D

[ls]

To me the strangest groups are some anarchists collectives from Turkey which I heard off. You can't be member of those collectives if you drink, take drugs, smoke or fuck :D

Nice, links?

[Искра]

I don't have any links etc. I heard about them from comrade who's in Ankara Anarchist Collective (something like that). He wanted to join to one of those organisations/collectives and they said him that he needs to stop drink and smoke pot so he fucked them off.

[ls]

I don't have any links etc. I heard about them from comrade who's in Ankara Anarchist Collective (something like that). He wanted to join to one of those organisations/collectives and they said him that he needs to stop drink and smoke pot so he fucked them off.

:lol: Sounds great.

[cameron222]

situationists:hippies well maybe I don't know enough about them then... I dislike continental philosophy and most things new leftist anyways course these are more academic than pot smoking hippies....

who are L&S?

yeah I'd say trotskyists are prone to the sort of thing I am talking about here anyways...

all have too much time on their hands: yeah. me too tho.

[cameron222]

yeah avakian but I'd say it's all too normal for maoists to do that crap. marxist-leninist-maozedong-gonzolo thought etc.,
It's going to be funny when they get into 6 names appended to each other, or if they save space, maybe they could start talking reincarnation and save dashes, and maybe posadists could help them with that type of thinking.

[Weezer]

Anarchist Party of Canada(Groucho-Marxist)

[Die Neue Zeit]

They are not third camp. Third camp would be siding against imperialism. They suppirt the occupations of Iraq, Palestine and Afghanistan. They are social-imperialist FIRST campers.

Nah, just Sean Matgamna with the rest of the organization giving him a cultish fan club cover.

[scarletghoul]

The NazBols
Juche I guess

[Q]

The Spartacists of course! Like the mighty Trotspotting thread (http://www.revleft.com/vb/trotspotting-everything-you-t117826/index.html) already stated:


International Bolshevik Tendency/Spartacist League:
Unique Selling Point: The craziest of them all.
Description: Most of these groups are quite weird to some extent. But none compare to the glorious madness of the IBT and Sparts (as with WP and PR, they split some time ago in a heated argument about how many angels can fit on one of Marx's beard hairs.) There doesn't seem to be much difference between the two, except that the IBT call their paper 1917, which always makes it sound like a good place to read about the latest news from the First World War. Read those slogans again. They actually, genuinely believe they're going to win people to socialism by telling them to "DEFEND THE NORTH KOREAN DEFORMED WORKERS STATE'S RIGHT TO NUCLEAR WEAPONS!" (They've also been known to stand outside the SWP's annual Marxism event denouncing them for not supporting the glorious people's Red Army in Afghanistan in the 1980s. I'm not making this up.) Truly, this is the face of madness: look on it and despair.
Do say: "Defend North Korea's right to nuclear weapons!"
Don't say: Anything at all. Just back away slowly

And their mention (http://www.marxists.org/history/etol/critiques/sullivan/pub-5sparts.html) in As Soon As The Pub Closes is also well worth reading :)

[mikelepore]

SPGB: hardline revolutionaries with a well-worked out critique of Bolshevism and reformism...who still think that we should all just vote them into Parliament and then everything'll be fine.

No, they do not say that at all. Their Declaration of Principles says:

"That as the machinery of government, including the armed forces of the nation, exists only to conserve the monopoly by the capitalist class of the wealth taken from the workers, the working class must organize consciously and politically for the conquest of the powers of government, national and local, in order that this machinery, including these forces, may be converted from an instrument of oppression into the agent of emancipation and the overthrow of privilege, aristocratic and plutocratic."

I have a lot to criticize the SPGB about myself, but on this particular point they are 100 percent correct.

It would be impossible for the working class to transfer the means of production to collective administration, but at the same time allow the elected political offices to remain under the control of supporters of class rule.

[Искра]

But this is the best:


Anarchistic Pogo Party of America

The Anarchistic Pogo (http://en.allexperts.com/e/p/po/pogo_%28dance%29.htm) Party of America (APPA) is the self-declared party of the "lazy people" and the "social parasite". It was created in 2004 (http://en.allexperts.com/e/0/2004.htm) by two people in Boston (http://en.allexperts.com/e/b/bo/boston.htm). It derives from the Anarchist Pogo Party of Germany (http://en.allexperts.com/e/a/an/anarchist_pogo_party_of_germany.htm) (APPD), which was founded in 1981. The official communication organ is the web site "The APPA".

Goals

* Right for unemployment with full salary
* Youth pension instead of retirement pension
* Cancellation of compulsory education
* Creation of centers for physical love
* Abolition of police
* Legalization of all drugs
* Cancellation of the right to demonstrate WITH announcement
* "Total Restupification" and Balkanisation (http://en.allexperts.com/e/b/ba/balkanisation.htm) of the country

Theory of pogo-anarchism

Pogo-anarchism (http://en.allexperts.com/e/p/po/pogo-anarchism.htm) is often falsely confused with the standard anarchism (http://en.allexperts.com/e/a/an/anarchism.htm), but there are more differences than commonalities. The pogo-anarchistic theory seeks only for an easy life with much free alcohol and no work; whereas more traditional movements in anarchism promote labor as fundamental to a society based on cooperative living. The concept of Balkanisation is introduced to split up the country into different parts: 'anarchist pogo zones' for pogo-anarchists, 'square citizen zones' for strait-laced workaholics and 'violence experience parks' for incurable violent offenders, with special areas set aside as ethnic theme parks (http://en.allexperts.com/e/t/th/theme_parks.htm) for cultural minorities (such as Texan rednecks), to avoid too close contact between these pogo races (http://en.allexperts.com/e/p/po/pogo_races.htm) lest the pursuit of what each considers necessary for happiness suffers.

[FSL]

I don't have any links etc. I heard about them from comrade who's in Ankara Anarchist Collective (something like that). He wanted to join to one of those organisations/collectives and they said him that he needs to stop drink and smoke pot so he fucked them off.


That's hardly unheard of. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mexico.Chis.EZLN.01.jpg

[Revy]

The Rural People's Party.
They are Maoists that support Juche and Jim Jones (seriously).

[The Douche]

RAAN - anarchists that endorse marx but hope to firebomb bolshevik bookstores

Lots of marxists are anti-bolshevik. We have never "hoped to firebomb" any bookstore, if somebody wanted to then they would.

[Искра]

So, you are in RAAN? Nice pamphlet against Lenin :lol:

[The Douche]

So, you are in RAAN? Nice pamphlet against Lenin :lol:

Yeah. What pamphlet? You mean this one (http://redanarchist.org/propaganda/fucklenin.pdf)?

[Искра]

Yup :)
Picture rocks :)

[Red Dreadnought]

Posadist Fourth International (a faction of trots). They defended Nuclear War, as an opportunity for proletarian to take power after massive destruction. And considered that Lenin and Trotsky were aliens of one superior alien civilization.

But, of course, "marxists" only in words.:blushing:

[Искра]

Posadist Fourth International (a faction of trots). They defended Nuclear War, as an opportunity for proletarian to take power after massive destruction. And considered that Lenin and Trotsky were aliens of one superior alien civilization.
:lol:

[Red Dreadnought]

Yes, incredible but true:laugh:. And is also true that Posadas was a acceptable footballer at Argentina before being politician.

And now they call Cristina Kirchner as comrade.:blink:

[robbo203]

SPGB: hardline revolutionaries with a well-worked out critique of Bolshevism and reformism...who still think that we should all just vote them into Parliament and then everything'll be fine.
.

Hmm. This is not quite true, though. Yes the SPGB sees the need to
democratically capture state power in order to neutralise the state as a possible weapon in the hands of he ruling class - in much the same way as Marx urged workers to win the "battle of democracy" and indeed, with Engels, envisaged the use of peaceful legal means to accomplish revolution in a number of countries in his day such as America, the UK and possibly Holland.

However the SPGB has a fairly unique or a least untypical approach to the use of the parliamentary approach. Some leftist critics regard parliamentarism or electoralism per se as "refromist" which is totally incorrect and based on a misundersanding of what constitutes "reformism" (which entails trying to manage capitalism via state sponsored measures). It is quite possible to reject the parliamentary approach and be a reformist. Conversely it is quite possible to advocate the parliamentary approach and oppose refromism. This is the position of the SPGB. It advocates not representative democracy but delegative democracy - the sending of elected delegates to parliament who are subordinated to the wishes of the communist movement itself outside of parliament and who would serve as little more than a guage of the extent of growth of hat movement, thus legitimising the revolutionary transformation of society in the eyes of friends and foes alike when a necessary majority for communism had been obtained.

The SPGB thus sees the main focus as being the build-up of the movement outside of parliament itself and that what happens in parliament is merely derivative or secondary. It envisages the communist (or socialist) movement organising itself in a number of ways and has even talked of the need to organise on the industrial front which puts it quite close to a classic De Leonist perspective.

My criicism of the SPGB is that it does not go quite far enough in that direction - extra-parliamentary organisation. However, I think its approach to the use of electoralism is basically sound and that many of its critics misunderstand what the SPGB is saying on this point.

[Q]

Posadist Fourth International (a faction of trots). They defended Nuclear War, as an opportunity for proletarian to take power after massive destruction. And considered that Lenin and Trotsky were aliens of one superior alien civilization.

I think this is a nice case of telling some a story that gets twisted a bit every time someone else retells it.

Posadas argued only, as far as I know, that UFO sightings (this was the 1960's remember, UFO's were "hot" back then) must come from very advanced alien beings, linking this to socialism as a higher form of civilisation. After that others argued that while Trotsky argued against socialism in one country, Posadas argued against socialism on one planet. Now this has mutated to Lenin and Trotsky being aliens.

I wonder how much further this will go, interesting case from a sociological point of view.

[h0m0revolutionary]

I have a huge fondness of the Worker Communist Party Iran - Hekmatist.

Not only are they one of THREE organisations claiming to be in the true tradition of Hekmat, but they want Ahmadinejad tried in the Hauge (what sort of revolutionary...?) and they actually petition the Islamic Republic to enforce secularism and ban the veil.

I love them for being so very aspirational. lol

[Devrim]

Posadist Fourth International (a faction of trots). They defended Nuclear War, as an opportunity for proletarian to take power after massive destruction. And considered that Lenin and Trotsky were aliens of one superior alien civilization.I think this is a nice case of telling some a story that gets twisted a bit every time someone else retells it.

Posadas argued only, as far as I know, that UFO sightings (this was the 1960's remember, UFO's were "hot" back then) must come from very advanced alien beings, linking this to socialism as a higher form of civilisation. After that others argued that while Trotsky argued against socialism in one country, Posadas argued against socialism on one planet. Now this has mutated to Lenin and Trotsky being aliens.

I wonder how much further this will go, interesting case from a sociological point of view.

Q is right here. As I remember it, the argument had a certain amount of logic. It went something like this; "If the universe is infinite, then there must be an infinite amount of civilisations, some of which must have invented interstellar travel if it is a physical possibility. Capitalism is a fetter on the productive forces, so if interstellar travel is invented, it could only be done by a communist society. Therefore if there are UFOs then they must be produced by communist societies".

As you can see from the italics, it was working on a lot of conditions.

As for Posadas, as I have pointed out before on here, he was a good Trotskyist militant until he was horribly tortured by the state. Yes, some of the things that he came out with afterwards were a little, shall we say 'crazy'. We know many people who were tortured after the 1980 coup in this country, who still have mental problems. When you bear that in mind the story becomes a little less funny. Still, it gives an excuse to him personal, but not to the rest of the organisation, who followed him.

Devrim

[Devrim]

I have a huge fondness of the Worker Communist Party Iran - Hekmatist.

Not only are they one of THREE organisations claiming to be in the true tradition of Hekmat, but they want Ahmadinejad tried in the Hauge (what sort of revolutionary...?) and they actually petition the Islamic Republic to enforce secularism and ban the veil.

I love them for being so very aspirational. lol

I wasn't aware of the third group. As far as I know there are two, the 'Worker-Communist Party of Iran', and the 'Worker-Communist Party of Iran - Hekmatist'. Both of them have a section in Iraq, the 'Left Worker-Communist Party of Iraq', and the 'Worker-Communist Party of Iraq' respectively. I think the first has a very small group of supporters here in Turkey too.

You are right about their politics though. They have a strange mixture of positions taking up a seemingly internationalist position on the war in Iraq, alongside support for Kurdish nationalism, and an obsession with 'democratic rights'.

Interestingly enough, the Union of Communist Militants, one of the groups that ended up forming, the Communist Party of Iran (1984), which is where the Hekmatists split from in 1991, had a supporters group in Europe called SUCM, which held long discussions with the communist left. This may be the reason for the proliferation of small Iranian 'left communist' groups today.

Devrim

[eyedrop]

However the SPGB has a fairly unique or a least untypical approach to the use of the parliamentary approach. Some leftist critics regard parliamentarism or electoralism per se as "refromist" which is totally incorrect and based on a misundersanding of what constitutes "reformism" (which entails trying to manage capitalism via state sponsored measures). It is quite possible to reject the parliamentary approach and be a reformist. Conversely it is quite possible to advocate the parliamentary approach and oppose refromism. This is the position of the SPGB. It advocates not representative democracy but delegative democracy - the sending of elected delegates to parliament who are subordinated to the wishes of the communist movement itself outside of parliament and who would serve as little more than a guage of the extent of growth of hat movement, thus legitimising the revolutionary transformation of society in the eyes of friends and foes alike when a necessary majority for communism had been obtained.


We had a couple of non-political comedians who launched a party similar to that some time ago. Where every decision they were involved in were to be voted on in their web-page. The representatives were to vote as the web vote decided. With slogans such as "Johan Golden — Your slave in parliament".


According to the party's platform, any representative of the party elected to parliament was to vote whatever the people wanted him or her to vote. To find out what the people wanted, they were to hold a poll on their web-site for every parliamentary issue the party got involved in. They also claimed that, were the people to vote 70% in favour and 30% against an issue, they would work 70% for it and 30% against it.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Political_Party_%28Norway%29#endnote_70-30) Thus the Political Party in some sense promoted the thought of direct democracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy). The party program states that the Political Party is founded on the ideals of freedom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_%28political%29), justice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice) and politics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics).
The political party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Political_Party_%28Norway%29)

It didn't take off though, but it did get 1 % in the election.

[robbo203]

We had a couple of non-political comedians who launched a party similar to that some time ago. Where every decision they were involved in were to be voted on in their web-page. The representatives were to vote as the web vote decided. With slogans such as "Johan Golden — Your slave in parliament".


The political party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Political_Party_%28Norway%29)

It didn't take off though, but it did get 1 % in the election.

Interesting. But whatever the comic intent, the idea behind it is a serious one and worth consideration. Of course, in the case of the SPGB, delegates elected to parliament would stand on a platform of communism and nothing but the genuine article (to this day he SPGB is the only poliical party contesting elecions which asks voters not to vote for if they are merely interested in reforming capitalism). Control over delegates - not the same thing as "representatives" BTW - would be exercised by the movement iself, not simply an amorphous "general public". Of course, this movement being communist (aka socialist) would ensure that delegates elected to parliament would be nothing but communists

[eyedrop]

I agree with robbo203 and think it's a fresh new approach to parliamentary politics, made increasingly realisable by internet.

I don't see a practical deifference between a delegate and a representative who is mandated to vote a spesific way though.

[Pogue]

Disturbingly wierd.

[Red Dreadnought]

Well, I recognize that I possible misunderstand the item of aliens. But, a Trot (of IMT tendance, then Militant) gave that version. But after all this program have no sense. Worse are the positions about Atomic War.

Personally, possibly he went crazy cause tortures. The item is that a reasonable amount of trot militants followed him (and even idolatre him), and is supposed to had mental healthy.

[Andrei Kuznetsov]

The "O". A group of sad, strange little people that can be found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_O_(political_group)

The aforementioned Rural People's Party (Marxist-Leninist-Maoist) is probably the strangest one with an online presence, but many speculate that they are a joke or the product of one person.

Oh, and then there's the one-man North American Committee Against Zionism & Imperialism, which actually has the official backing of the DPRK. They/he/whatever claims to be a "Maoist-Jucheist" who also sees Saddam Hussein, the Burmese junta leader Gen. Thwan Swe, and Robert Mugabe as great Marxist leaders, considers the Holocaust a hoax, and supports the "objectively anti-imperialist" Sri Lankan government against the Tamil Tigers. Also, ZOG and Israel control the world. More hilarity can be found here: http://www.nacazai.org/

And of course the Sparts.

[Os Cangaceiros]

The pogo-anarchistic theory seeks only for an easy life with much free alcohol and no work

I've finally found a home!