Che and Tania Bunke [Archive]

Felicia

28th April 2003, 15:55

Quote: from soul83 on 9:14 am on April 28, 2003
I'm not sure,I read it somewhere on the internet a long time ago.

I read something about that too (not in Anderson's book though). But I've read somewhere that he was involved in a "romantic" relationship with a woman while in Bolivia, and that she did damage to the guerrilla's with some papers or a diary aor something that she had that ended up being captured. And from what I can recall from Anderson's biography, Tania left some papers behind in a jeep or something, and they were "found".

BUT I'M NOT SURE ABOUT ANY OF THIS...... but if someone know's some more about this possibility, it would be nice to know more about it, whether it is true or not......

LeonardSharkey

28th April 2003, 16:10

From my readings on the subject Tanya was meant to stay in La Paz but she fled into the fight halfway through the Bol. campaign. che was angry as he was counting on her as a contact in the capital.
she did leave behind papers which compromised not only herself but the whole shooting party she was with.
her reasons for the flight to join Che's guerillas depends on your source. but rumours she was a spy for the Soviets? cant see it myself...

soul83

28th April 2003, 16:13

Interesting thanks for the info... if anyone knows anything else tell me please

Larissa

28th April 2003, 18:39

Quote: from LeonardSharkey on 1:10 pm on April 28, 2003
From my readings on the subject Tanya was meant to stay in La Paz but she fled into the fight halfway through the Bol. campaign. che was angry as he was counting on her as a contact in the capital.
she did leave behind papers which compromised not only herself but the whole shooting party she was with.
her reasons for the flight to join Che's guerillas depends on your source. but rumours she was a spy for the Soviets? cant see it myself...
Well, although her remains rest besides Che's in the Memorial site of Santa Clara (Che's tomb and monument) it is said that they had a "non-compromised" affair, and also it is suspected that she might have been a KGB agent. However, Cubans have denied this and regard her as a hero.

There's plenty of information on the web. Her very big mistake is what you have mentioned about leaving behind important documents and joining the guerrilla on site when she was supposed to act as a liason in the capital city. As a result, Loyola Guzmán Lara (a girl who fought beside Che in the Bolivian guerrila) was captured. She (Loyola) still lives in Bolivia and is the Chariman of the Commission of human Rights and Disappeard People (during the military dictatorships in Bolivia).

http://chehasta.narod.ru/tamara2.htm

http://www.mujeres.cubaweb.cu/articulo.asp...p?num=99&art=12 (http://www.mujeres.cubaweb.cu/articulo.asp?num=99&art=12)
http://www.che.islagrande.cu/bolivia/tania.htm

soul83

28th April 2003, 18:45

What do you mean by a "non-compromised" affair ??

Felicia

28th April 2003, 19:12

So, is someone going to say this?....... Che cheated on both of his wives :angry:
First he cheated on Hilda with a woman while he was fighting in Cuba, and then with Aleida (but I'd argue that he didn't really love hilda much in the first place). And then he cheated on Aleida with Tania. Sure, he may have had great ideals, and fought for social justice. But damn, we can't overlook the fact that he cheated on his wives. Sure, he may not have betrayed them while he was in close proximity to them, but as soon as he was off to fight...... he found another chick to slam (although I don't think that he had an affair while he was in the congo). But that really makes me angry, high morals..... pfffft!!! But I suppose that you could argue that all humans are flawed, but then again, che has the tittle of "most complete human being of our time". I'm sorry, but what a load of shit.
I was really disappionted to find this stuff out in my reading :(

Goldfinger

28th April 2003, 19:16

I have to agree with Felicia on that one, I'm afraid. But luckily, that's not what his ideology and litterature are about.

soul83

28th April 2003, 19:30

Well values are generally inter-wined with reilgion. Che was primarily an agnostic and secondly a communist thus believing in free-love. I'm not justifying his unfaithfulness but that's how I see it myself. Let's not deal with the morality issue though !!

Felicia

29th April 2003, 16:04

Quote: from soul83 on 3:30 pm on April 28, 2003
Well values are generally inter-wined with reilgion. Che was primarily an agnostic and secondly a communist thus believing in free-love. I'm not justifying his unfaithfulness but that's how I see it myself. Let's not deal with the morality issue though !!
first of all, not all communists and agnostics believe in free love, and there has been no where that I've read that he believed in that. But either way. He believed in commitment...... commitment to a cause, and there should've been more commitment to his lady. That's all I'm saying :)

soul83

29th April 2003, 16:36

I agree with you Felicia... I didn't say he was morally right !!! Free-love isn't morally right.... I just think he did actually believe in it though....

(Edited by soul83 at 5:37 pm on April 29, 2003)

Larissa

29th April 2003, 19:26

Quote: from soul83 on 3:45 pm on April 28, 2003
What do you mean by a "non-compromised" affair ??
I meant something like "free-love". However, what the hell does this got to do with his political views? After all, he was not "God" or "Mr. Perfect". The guy was just a man.

Larissa

29th April 2003, 19:30

Now, I'm not "justifying" unfaithfulness. I never cheated on my husband and he never cheated on me either. This is just because we both agree it's stupid to cheat on someone. It's like lying to yourself, it's not something smart or to be proud of. However, many people cheat on their partners, so if he did, that was his problem (or his and his wives').

soul83

29th April 2003, 19:31

Larissa I thing everyone has depicted Che in his or her own way presumably with no flaws as we tend to do with film stars. But everyone is human we know that !! His ideology is what counts but again he's a hero...

Felicia

29th April 2003, 19:53

Quote: from Larissa on 3:26 pm on April 29, 2003

Quote: from soul83 on 3:45 pm on April 28, 2003
What do you mean by a "non-compromised" affair ??
I meant something like "free-love". However, what the hell does this got to do with his political views? After all, he was not "God" or "Mr. Perfect". The guy was just a man.

oh, wow, you sound upset.
I suppose that it's 'alright' if the wives knew about it, or if they atleast in a way expected him to look else where to, erm, "fulfill" his urges....... then again, it wouildn't be a "love" thing, just a "lust" thing, and that can be emotionally delt with I suppose. But then again, he did fall in love with aleida.......

either way, I'm not one who should be judging anyone.

Saint-Just

29th April 2003, 21:15

oh, wow, you sound upset.
I suppose that it's 'alright' if the wives knew about it, or if they atleast in a way expected him to look else where to, erm, "fulfill" his urges....... then again, it wouildn't be a "love" thing, just a "lust" thing, and that can be emotionally delt with I suppose. But then again, he did fall in love with aleida.......

either way, I'm not one who should be judging anyone.

I agree very much. We have not got all the information of the circumstances, so it is difficult to judge. Che did advocate that a revolutionary should have a socialist morality and progressive attitude and should apply it to many aspects of ones life.

I disagree thoroughly with unfaithfulness or concepts such as 'free love'. It worries me that Che might have considered it reasonable. However, it is as I said difficult to know without talking to him in person and finding out his precise views on it.

Maybe it doesn't matter since such matters are slightly removed from politics, but I would certainly consider such actions immoral.

(Edited by Chairman Mao at 9:16 pm on April 29, 2003)

Larissa

29th April 2003, 21:42

Quote: from felicia on 4:53 pm on April 29, 2003

Quote: from Larissa on 3:26 pm on April 29, 2003

Quote: from soul83 on 3:45 pm on April 28, 2003
What do you mean by a "non-compromised" affair ??
I meant something like "free-love". However, what the hell does this got to do with his political views? After all, he was not "God" or "Mr. Perfect". The guy was just a man.

oh, wow, you sound upset.
I suppose that it's 'alright' if the wives knew about it, or if they atleast in a way expected him to look else where to, erm, "fulfill" his urges....... then again, it wouildn't be a "love" thing, just a "lust" thing, and that can be emotionally delt with I suppose. But then again, he did fall in love with aleida.......

either way, I'm not one who should be judging anyone.
Feli, I'm not upset, and I agree that we are no one to judge other people's private life.

thursday night

30th April 2003, 03:20

Che did not have sex with Tania...where did you hear of this?

Dan Majerle

30th April 2003, 08:40

It's in companero by George something rather. I think that Jon Lee Anderson alludes to it subtlely without making a judgement or deciding whether or not its true. Just merely identifies the rumour. But Companero definitely has it.

Felicia

30th April 2003, 15:41

I have absolute respect for him, and I didn't mean to be disrespectful. For all it's worth, I personally see him as the "most complete human being of our time" and would argue in defense of that. But that's right, it is his personal life. And after all, he goes into the jungle as if he were a "dead man" already, so I guess that some things that happen there are done so because of the circumstances.

(Edited by felicia at 11:42 am on April 30, 2003)

Dan Majerle

30th April 2003, 16:02

Lenin also cheated on his wife Kuprska or whatever her name was. There's wasn't really a sexual relationship, moreso a business and ideological one. That is probably why they never had children. He was having sex with his mistress.

Larissa

30th April 2003, 18:37

Quote: from thursday night on 12:20 am on April 30, 2003
Che did not have sex with Tania...where did you hear of this?
How do you know? No one can tell, actually, no one was in the middle of them in bed :cool: Then again, who the hell cares? Same regarding Lenin! Lenin was great enough for us to search on his personal sexual life. Leave the guys alone, please. Shall we open a "Vanity Fair" forum for this? :biggrin:

Felicia

30th April 2003, 19:26

Quote: from Larissa on 2:37 pm on April 30, 2003
[quote]Quote: from thursday night on 12:20 am on April 30, 2003
How do you know? No one can tell, actually, no one was in the middle of them in bed :cool:
I was, and for most of the time, it wasn't a bed :biggrin:

oh gee, I should just keep my big mouth shut. I'm going to get myself into trouble one of these days by offending someone and I'm going to get a hockey smile http://smileyonline.free.fr/images/gif/langue/vignette/thumbnails/1036770414_gif.gif

Larissa

30th April 2003, 23:44

LOL!! good Felicia!

Felicia

30th April 2003, 23:47

I'd say some other stuff too, but I think I'd really be taking it a bit too far...... :-P
And even I don't have the imagination for that :biggrin:

(Edited by felicia at 7:48 pm on April 30, 2003)

nz revolution

1st May 2003, 08:34

I don't think he hooked up with Tania.

Although it was the 60's... :wink:

Dan Majerle

1st May 2003, 10:02

hey i'm just saying what happened. Also i hardly think its wrong to say what he did was bad. I'm not perfect and know some things i do are bad as well. Though its not in the best interests of one to judge, nonetheless people can't go around defending what he did. It was a private thing that doesn't effect anyone but it was still wrong. Then again i dont want to hang him or anything for it it's his business.

Resorte

8th May 2003, 12:15

Felicia, don't be so surprised about Che's affairs after all he was argentine :)

Felicia

8th May 2003, 16:15

Quote: from Resorte on 12:15 pm on May 8, 2003
Felicia, don't be so surprised about Che's affairs after all he was argentine :)

you have no idea how much that bugs me!!!!! Just because the person is latino doesn't mean that he can't be faithful. Don't put negative thoughts in my head, it hurts :(

Larissa

8th May 2003, 18:31

Feli, don't get upset, Resorte is Argentine as well as I am, it's sort of a private joke as argentine men regarded themselves as playbloys, best lovers, womanizers, etc. (and they are very handsome indeed, most of them) :biggrin:

(Edited by Larissa at 3:32 pm on May 8, 2003)

GCusack

8th May 2003, 18:41

sorry for my ignorance but who is she?

Larissa

8th May 2003, 18:54

Quote: from GCusack on 3:41 pm on May 8, 2003
sorry for my ignorance but who is she?
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/8702/tania.html

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/9.../9693/tania.htm (http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/9693/tania.htm)
http://chehasta.narod.ru/tamara2.htm

GCusack

8th May 2003, 21:58

Thanx Larissa, u do no where to find everything don't?!

soul83

8th May 2003, 23:30

Larissa, Che was truly handsome, good-looking indeed but the most attractive guys are not Argentine or Latin Americans, but Mediterranean hunks (brown eyes, black hair.... I love it !!)
Hmmm Italians, Spaniards, Maltese, Portugese and the list goes on !!!!

Larissa

8th May 2003, 23:36

Quote: from soul83 on 8:30 pm on May 8, 2003
Larissa, Che was truly handsome, good-looking indeed but the most attractive guys are not Argentine or Latin Americans, but Mediterranean hunks (brown eyes, black hair.... I love it !!)
Hmmm Italians, Spaniards, Maltese, Portugese and the list goes on !!!!Wow, I should visit the Mediterranean then! :smile:

Felicia

8th May 2003, 23:53

Quote: from Larissa on 2:31 pm on May 8, 2003
Feli, don't get upset, Resorte is Argentine as well as I am, it's sort of a private joke as argentine men regarded themselves as playbloys, best lovers, womanizers, etc. (and they are very handsome indeed, most of them) :biggrin:

ok, I see now, it's funny :)
but womanizers aren't good.... but if it's meant as a joke... than I'll laugh........hahahaha :)

soul83...... I know exactly what you mean about the black hair and brown eyes ;) .... I call them brownies, and I like brownies :cheesy:

Resorte

9th May 2003, 01:08

Felicia,

I'm sorry if I upset you with my comment, it was just a joke :)

Che Girl

9th May 2003, 01:48

ah yes..Tanya...from what I've read..mainly from his Bolivian Diary is that he only mentions her as "the guerilla fighter named Tanya"
and he's really passive about her capture and death so I doubt there were any romantic ties between them..and anyway..everybody knows I was his lover!

Sabocat

9th May 2003, 22:00

Quote: from soul83 on 4:30 am on May 9, 2003
Larissa, Che was truly handsome, good-looking indeed but the most attractive guys are not Argentine or Latin Americans, but Mediterranean hunks (brown eyes, black hair.... I love it !!)
Hmmm Italians, Spaniards, Maltese, Portugese and the list goes on !!!!

Jesus....how could you forget the Scots!? ;)

(Edited by Disgustapated at 3:15 am on May 10, 2003)