EDL and C18 dust up?

[1968]

Original thread by 'Farce' on Libcom.

If this is accurate, it's pretty awesomely lol: http://ww w.stormfront .org/forum/showthread.php?p=7493318


THIS WAS SENT TO US AND FROM OUR OWN SOURCES THIS IS TRUE. THANKFULLY THE COMRADE IS ALIVE BUT IS SERIOUS HE HAD BEEN SMASHED OVER THE HEAD WITH A FIRE EXTINGUISHER. THE EDL HAVE SHOWN THEIR TRUE COLOURS ANYONE RIGHTWING BE THEY RVF BFF BNP NF B&H C18 WHO ATTENDS THE EDL EVENTS FROM NOW ON MUST BE CONSIDERED TRAITORS TO THE CAUSE

Today over 400 nationalists turned up in London to demonstrate against Islam4UK's march to 10 Downing Street. The nationalists were made up of autonomous nationalists, Blood and Honour, C18, Football casuals and various supporters who are also involved in other groups.


Last night, without our knowledge, Islam4UK cancelled their march through London and we were left with a technical victory today. As the day went on people started leaving/moving to other places in London. We heard that the EDL were down the road singing anti German songs and singing songs with messages basically saying that the people of Dresden deserved what they got in the Dresden bombings. About 15 of us that was left went down there and got ourselves and pint and had a conversation with some of the EDL.



The youth were there, including their leader Joel, and the older lot were there too. Somehow, something kicked off about the EDL being pro zionists and supporting Jews, and we opposed it, we were all outside and they started chanting "C18 Nazis". We 15 ended up kicking off with about 50 - 60 EDL, who were throwing fire extinguishers, pint glasses, bottles, and various other things. We stood our ground to a point but had to disperse. After getting away through Trafalger Square we heard screams and looked around.



One of our C18 brothers had been smashed around the back of the head and had fallen flat out on the road unconscious, drowning in a pool of blood. 10 minutes later coming back to the scene, he was still laying there and was cornered off with police tape.
If anyone continues to support EDL, you are supporting a group of so called patriots who has just (as far as we know) caused the death of one of our real patriotic brothers. By supporting them you are alo supporting mixed races and the mixing of races as well as supporting Zionism and the Jews that have got us in the mess we are in today. They hate nationalists, and that is clear now, they hate you.


I urge every nationalist to not turn up at their demos unless you are going there to oppose them. They were chanting things such as "**** C18" and "****ing Nazis", so you will not be welcome anyway. Make sure these scumbags are off of our streets as soon as possible, every demo they have, destroy it, and destroy them.


I have heard word that they may be coming to "trash" NF Remembrance Day, so let us all unite, like we did today, Autonomous groups, B&H, C18, Football firms, and destroy this scum at any possible chance.

[Comrade Gwydion]

I wanted to troll that scumfront threat and LOL very loud about fash fighting fash but I decided that I wasn't going to give them my email adress and it wasn't worth the trouble of making a new one. :P

[Partizani]

Let the fash fight between themselves. Technically this should be the time that the left unites against them in a popular front, but UAF don't seem to keen to be seen alongside scary anarchists.

[Rory]

Let the fash fight between themselves. Technically this should be the time that the left unites against them in a popular front, but UAF don't seem to keen to be seen alongside scary anarchists.

Really? I thought this would be the main criticism of UAF?

[Pogue]

Although I'd be very sceptical of the full truth in this, someone posted on Ian Bone's blog this:

EDL response:
“Whatever the reasons, the edl were attacked first.
We (10 EDL) were outside the pub when around 15 blokes came out of the pub and started shouting ‘edl ****s’ and ‘jew lovers’, at least 3 of them sieg heiled at us and a bottle came over.
We squared up and they came at us, a ruck ensued and glasses and bottles were thrown by both sides aswell as punches.
Mid-fight more EDL came running out of the pub and joined us but there was never 40-50, maybe 25 at most.
The lads who attacked us ran across whitehall toward trafalgar square and left one of their lads who got cracked over the back of the head in the road and collapsed on the other side of the road and another got few slaps inside the theatre foyer.”
Sounds like Lord Moon on the Mall, Whitehall.

[scarletghoul]

:laugh:

[Pogue]

If I was there to see this I would have found it one of the most entertaining and confusing moments of my life ever.

[nuisance]

If I was there to see this I would have found it one of the most entertaining and confusing moments of my life ever.
I don't know what would be confusing, nazis en masse appear to hate EDL.

[Pogue]

I don't know what would be confusing, nazis en masse appear to hate EDL.

But seeing this fight between the EDL and some other racists would have confused me as I would not have got the context.

[Sasha]

what would there be to wory your pretty litle head over? just get an reclining chair, a big bucket of popcorn and enjoy the show...

[communard resolution]

I thought about it and I am now suspecting that EDL might actually not be 'fascists' at all.

Their British chauvinism, pro-Israel stance, their hatred of 'extremism' rather than Muslims in general, their hatred of 'nazis' and the BNP as well as their hatred of left 'extremistsÄ indeed point otherwise: rather than being neo-fascist stormtroopers, they may in fact just be the militant, street-level extension of the 'respectable', anti-'extremist', covertly xenophobic mainstream consensus.

This is what happens when you give hate mongers like Jack Straw, Baroness Warsi and Chris Huhne a platform! :)

[The Ungovernable Farce]

Assuming that this is true and not just propaganda, I'm starting to suspect Nero may well be right.

[Sasha]

bollox, this is just the british version of the whole SIOE, Wilders, Pro-koln, against islamofascism etc etc shit on the mainland.
these groups get in to fights with neo-nazi's all the time, yet when you observe their politics it turns out all the time that they are just more fascist (in the traditional meaning) than the nazi's.
wilders over here road to power screaming the same things as these edl thugs, now he wants to abolish the unions, deploy the military domesticly, fire "leftwing" scientist and judges etc etc.

so is the EDL nazi? no, most probely not... are they fascist? you bet they are...

[Holden Caulfield]

I thought about it and I am now suspecting that EDL might actually not be 'fascists' at all.

I dont think they think they do play a fascist role, but they do. By focusing on Islamic problems in a time of a massive failure of capitalism to provide they distract us and themselves and try to make class issues into racial or religious issues.

Most people in this country would smack anybody who gave a sieg heil, the neo-nazis aroundRVF/BFF/B&H are a bunch of fucking losers who need to get a new hobby.

The same bunch of people hate the BNP as they let Jews in the party etc, and yet you would not say that the BNP doesnt play a fascist role just because dilluded 'neo-nazis' dont like them.

[Holden Caulfield]

also

if you say you're a fascist they retort no we aren't, which they probably don't identify as.

if you explain why the role they play supports, accomodates and furthers fascism then you have more of a leg to stand on.

if you just say nazi and leave it as that you are guilty of sloppy analysis, and might as well join UAF

[ls]

The EDL is a bunch of football hooligans ranging from being very fascist to being mildly xenophobic, they are coordinated by a 110% Fascist middle-upper-class man who lives in Highgate 'village', the other coordinators fairly high in the ranks are pretty fascistic too, but Holden is correct in saying as a whole, they play a fascist role.

[Dimentio]

In Sweden, this is already a reality.

Nazis and fascists see each-other as enemies, because the nazis are antisemitic while the fascists are islamophobic.

[Partizani]

The EDL reminds me almost of the Freikorps, working class males who feel as though the state has abandoned them and need someone to blame. Easy prey for fascists to manipulate them into a fighting force.

[Montag451]

The EDL is a bunch of football hooligans ranging from being very fascist to being mildly xenophobic, they are coordinated by a 110% Fascist middle-upper-class man who lives in Highgate 'village'.

Who?

[Dr Mindbender]

In Sweden, this is already a reality.

Nazis and fascists see each-other as enemies, because the nazis are antisemitic while the fascists are islamophobic.

british nazis are islamophobic and anti-semitic.

There will never be a BPP/Al-Mahijouroun alliance.

[Dimentio]

british nazis are islamophobic and anti-semitic.

There will never be a BPP/Al-Mahijouroun alliance.

Well, but EDL seems to be pro-zionist and islamophobic.

In Sweden, there is a conflict between the Sweden Democrats (fascist) and more radical nazi organisations like the Swedish Resistance Movement and the People's Front (conversely, the SRM doesn't like the PF either, and claim them to be "strasserist").

The Sweden Democrats are pro-Israel while the nazis are antisemitic and often cooperating with extreme islamists during the last year.

[ls]

Who?

~snip snip~

Nah http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/features/Businessman-bankrolls-street-army.php.

[Solidair]

I'm sure I read one of the regular posters on here say that C18 didn't exhist in this country anymore:confused:

[Solidair]

Abdul-Aziz ibn Myatt. I can't post links yet but a quick look will show that there are those on the Far Right who see Muslims as potential allies in the long war against Jews. You may think he's a harmless fruitcake so check out his link with David Copeland.

[communard resolution]

I dont think they think they do play a fascist role, but they do. By focusing on Islamic problems in a time of a massive failure of capitalism to provide they distract us and themselves and try to make class issues into racial or religious issues.

Most people in this country would smack anybody who gave a sieg heil, the neo-nazis aroundRVF/BFF/B&H are a bunch of fucking losers who need to get a new hobby.

The same bunch of people hate the BNP as they let Jews in the party etc, and yet you would not say that the BNP doesnt play a fascist role just because dilluded 'neo-nazis' dont like them.

Yes, I probably agree - a new wave of fascism in the UK will not come with swastikas and sig-runes, but with Union Jacks and 'commonsense', anti-'extremist' and anti-immigration politics a la Jack Straw and Baroness Warsi, but enacted on street level.

And of course, it will be linked to popular prejudice of 21st century Great Britain ('Islamic extremism is a threat to our way of life') rather than harking back to the popular prejudice of 1920s Germany ('we lost the war because of the Jews'). In this sense, maybe the EDL are the real fascists who came about more 'organically' while C18 and their ilk are, as you say, essentially a bunch of geeks who are completely removed from political reality.

Despite some vague personnel links, I find it quite credible that the EDL and BNP are at odds with one another - judging by the little information I have, I would think of the EDL as something like the street fighting wing of the Daily Mail readership, militant defenders of the status quo whose perceived anti-extremism naturally involves fighting the BNP as well as the left.

I find it interesting that another poster compared them to the Freikorps, but they really remind me of Putin's militant youth brigade, who are also a nationalist, anti-'extremist' lynch mob of sorts. It's not an easy to classify movement.

[Holden Caulfield]

Despite some vague personnel links, I find it quite credible that the EDL and BNP are at odds with one another - judging by the little information I have, I would think of the EDL as something like the street fighting wing of the Daily Mail readership, militant defenders of the status quo whose perceived anti-extremism naturally involves fighting the BNP as well as the left.



I don't think they are, the BNP first said, when EDL were on form in Luton etc, that they agree with them but do not condone their methods. The BNP only started to disown the EDL when they started to have shit kicked through them, have their demos seeded with mental nutzis and other such things.

But putting focus on muslims (no matter if they have a handful of black members or not) they play into the hands of the BNP by perpetuating the myth that scary muslims are a danger to us, ignoring the capitalist crisis totally.

If somebody where to set the room on fire to kill us both, and I spend all my time arguing with you telling you to put your cigarette out whether I want to help the arsonist or not I am doing so by my actions and by which problem I choose to focus on. (bad analogy but I just love to make them)

[Ravachol]

The fact that they kick in RVF (not C18) skulls doesn't make the EDL any less fascist.
The fact that they aren't antisemitic doesn't make them any less fascist.

Antisemitism is just one manifestation of the exclusion inherent to fascist nationalism.
It might just as well direct itself towards Muslims.

The EDL appears to be (at least, to me as a moderately informed mainland European) a statist-nationalist (I don't know if that's the correct term in English) organisation consisting of a mix of genuine fascists, Islamophobes (with their Islamophobia mainly rooted in the ethnic association with Islam, I doubt these buffoons actually care about gay and women's rights and would go out and smash christian fundamentalists) and plain old hooligans looking for a fight.

The fact that their conception of nation focuses on shared 'british' ancestry and shared tradition and not a shared race (such as white nationalists do) does not make them any less fascist. They do not oppose 'extremism' (in fact, I hate the use of that term, extremism simply denotes the lengths one is willing to go to to achieve certain goals. Surely we must consider bourgoise capitalist institutions extremist) since these guys are willing to engage in street battles with immigrants, antifascists and the police, not something your average 'oh behave'-type of 'anti-extremist' would do.

People saying they're a grass-roots movement are also incorrect since they do not have a mass-base and do not engage in any form of community work nor do they appear to have a bottom-up structure. That doesn't mean that there can be no far-right grass-roots movements (in fact, there are a lot in Italy, some in East-Germany, etc) but it simply means the EDL isn't one.

The EDL is a network of far-right activists, football hooligans and bitter violence-prone daily mail readers held together by bonds of friendship, mutual internet contacts,etc.

Although I don't know enough about the situation I wouldn't be too surprised if they turn out to be puppeteered by the BNP from behind the scenes.

People seeing the attack on the RVF as a sign they're not fascist most likely aren't familiar with the fascist milieu. In most parts of Europe different fractions of THE SAME GROUP regularly use life-threatening violence against each other. For example, the feud between Blood&Honour/Traditional and Blood&Honour/C18 regularly results in stabbings, streetfights,etc. And even within C18 conflicts over something as silly as 'dey tuk me girlfriend' result in splits and brawls.
It doesn't make anybody any less fascist.

The EDL is, by all definitions, a fascist movement. Albeit one that seems to support Israel and which (at least, formally) isn't afraid to associate with other ethnic communities. Their focus seems to lie with the cultural identity and tradition-based conception of the nation.

All this theoretical debating aside, it's fairly obvious they should be confronted by the left and dismantled all the same.

[Holden Caulfield]

^ I think that says what I just said, but I think its foolish to label EDL fascist without qualifying things like I pointed out.

[Moon23]

The fact that they kick in RVF (not C18) skulls doesn't make the EDL any less fascist.
The fact that they aren't antisemitic doesn't make them any less fascist.

Antisemitism is just one manifestation of the exclusion inherent to fascist nationalism.
It might just as well direct itself towards Muslims.

The EDL appears to be (at least, to me as a moderately informed mainland European) a statist-nationalist (I don't know if that's the correct term in English) organisation consisting of a mix of genuine fascists, Islamophobes (with their Islamophobia mainly rooted in the ethnic association with Islam, I doubt these buffoons actually care about gay and women's rights and would go out and smash christian fundamentalists) and plain old hooligans looking for a fight.

The fact that their conception of nation focuses on shared 'british' ancestry and shared tradition and not a shared race (such as white nationalists do) does not make them any less fascist. They do not oppose 'extremism' (in fact, I hate the use of that term, extremism simply denotes the lengths one is willing to go to to achieve certain goals. Surely we must consider bourgoise capitalist institutions extremist) since these guys are willing to engage in street battles with immigrants, antifascists and the police, not something your average 'oh behave'-type of 'anti-extremist' would do.

People saying they're a grass-roots movement are also incorrect since they do not have a mass-base and do not engage in any form of community work nor do they appear to have a bottom-up structure. That doesn't mean that there can be no far-right grass-roots movements (in fact, there are a lot in Italy, some in East-Germany, etc) but it simply means the EDL isn't one.

The EDL is a network of far-right activists, football hooligans and bitter violence-prone daily mail readers held together by bonds of friendship, mutual internet contacts,etc.

Although I don't know enough about the situation I wouldn't be too surprised if they turn out to be puppeteered by the BNP from behind the scenes.

People seeing the attack on the RVF as a sign they're not fascist most likely aren't familiar with the fascist milieu. In most parts of Europe different fractions of THE SAME GROUP regularly use life-threatening violence against each other. For example, the feud between Blood&Honour/Traditional and Blood&Honour/C18 regularly results in stabbings, streetfights,etc. And even within C18 conflicts over something as silly as 'dey tuk me girlfriend' result in splits and brawls.
It doesn't make anybody any less fascist.

The EDL is, by all definitions, a fascist movement. Albeit one that seems to support Israel and which (at least, formally) isn't afraid to associate with other ethnic communities. Their focus seems to lie with the cultural identity and tradition-based conception of the nation.

All this theoretical debating aside, it's fairly obvious they should be confronted by the left and dismantled all the same.

In the absence of any left-wing or anarchist resistance to Islamic facism, the cultural identity and tradition-based conception of the nation state is all these working class people have to rally around in their opposition.

Your avereage working class lad does not distinguish between often between England equating to the people or England equating to tthe institution of the Nation state created by the ruling class.