Challenging Israeli militarism — and “absolute anti-Zionism�

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http://www.workersliberty.org/story/2009/03/27/challenging-israeli-militarism-—-and-“absolute-anti-zionism”-0

A great article about "the other side" of Israel

[ls]

Page not found.

[graffic]

sorry perhaps this link will work http://www.workersliberty.org/taxonomy/term/82.

this is a direct link http://www.workersliberty.org/story/2009/03/27/challenging-israeli-militarism-—-and-“absolute-anti-zionism”-0

[ls]

Worker's liberty is a shitty site (with shitty politics might I add), which is why it won't work, it is encoding the dashes, the correct working link (you may have to paste this into your browser address bar) is
http://www.workersliberty.org/story/2009/03/27/challenging-israeli-militarism-—-and-“absolute-anti-zionism”-0

Anyway.


Certainly no left publications except Solidarity and our Two nations, Two States pamphlet were sold at the meetings.) I think the left, the SWP and its co-thinkers certainly, were afraid of what Tamar had to say and are in fact afraid of her and her comrades’ existence.

Yeah and AWL are the proletarian vanguard, let's just forget the rest of the left which exists in the UK and supports her and her comrades (but not the reactionary idea of two states), the decent internationalist communists.


When you insist, in effect, that there is and can be no real opposition in Israel, the presence of a living, breathing Israeli internationalist is embarrassing.

BS. Even the SWP wouldn't be moronic enough to deny that groups like the ISL and AATW exist in Israel, to deny that all those who went to prison against conscription did it in vain.


And more: how is it that this young militant, so committed to Palestinian rights that she was willing to be imprisoned, supports the continued existence of what you call an “apartheid state”, i.e. Israel’s right to exist in a two-state solution?

The two state solution is a completely moronic idea.


Why do most pro-Palestinian Israelis support a two-state solution, while in South Africa any genuinely democratic white person was automatically for a unitary state? And why did Tamar criticise boycotts of Israel, counterposing the idea of active, positive solidarity with the Palestinians and Israeli left?

It depends on what "left" she meant, also any boycotting of goods is a good thing, she probably didn't know better.


The meetings were not just opportunities to hear Tamar speak. They were also forums in which left activists unused to free discussion on Palestine could grapple with issues including two states; the complexity of what happened in 1945-8; boycotts of Israel; and the nature of Zionism. Many of those who attended will have begun to genuinely consider these issues for the first time, freed by Tamar’s presence from the stifling orthodoxy of the Palestinian solidarity movement’s demonizsation of Israel and “absolute anti-Zionism”. The more Zionist, “pro-Israel” Jewish students who attended some of the meetings will hopefully have had their worldview shaken up as well. Hopefully the discussions that were sparked will continue and have a lasting impact among activists.

We must remember that the AWL is a pretty nasty pro-Zionist organisation itself.

Being anti-Zionist in no way means one is anti-Semitic or anti-Israeli (as in xenophobia against an Israeli citizen) no matter which way you try to distort it.

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The two state solution is a completely moronic idea.

In your opinion.

Most people on the Left in Britain support a two-state solution including the communist party daily newspaper the "morning star".

Go and join the Muslim association of Britain, you will have more in common with them than any leftist comrade in the UK.



We must remember that the AWL is a pretty nasty pro-Zionist organisation itself.

I suggest you visit the solidarity website and try and understand the stance a bit more http://www.workersliberty.org/solidaritynew

[ls]

In your opinion.

Most people on the Left in Britain support a two-state solution including the communist party daily newspaper the "morning star".

Go and join the Muslim association of Britain, you will have more in common with them than any leftist comrade in the UK.




I suggest you visit the solidarity website and try and understand the stance a bit more http://www.workersliberty.org/solidaritynew

I have a lot more in common with the workers in Britain than I do with pro-Zionist middle-class intellectuals which open stalls, instead of actually engaging workers.

Then again, I don't really care what you think either way, you're probably one of them, in fact you probably don't know anything about these groups other than what you've read on the net.

I suggest you keep scapegoating Muslims and see what happens to your account, like you are doing so well in the EDL thread.

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I have a lot more in common with the workers in Britain than I do with pro-Zionist middle-class intellectuals which open stalls, instead of actually engaging workers.

Well done to you for "engaging" with workers. Congratulations, you are working for a good cause. Is there any need to make unnecessary judgments on other leftists who have views which differ slightly to yours or do you just like the feeling of randomly insulting people on an internet forum to make you feel more self-righteous?


Then again, I don't really care what you think either way, you're probably one of them, in fact you probably don't know anything about these groups other than what you've read on the net.

by the sounds of it you are incredibly ignorant of anything to do with Left in Britain.

You've read a few articles in a magazine and think you are the dogs very clever bollocks. Fuck off

[ls]

Well done to you for "engaging" with workers. Congratulations, you are working for a good cause. Is there any need to make unnecessary judgments on other leftists who have views which differ slightly to yours or do you just like the feeling of randomly insulting people on an internet forum to make you feel more self-righteous?

"randomly insulting" a shit group which shit people like yourself support?

IT MAKES ME FEEL ALIIIIIVE!


by the sounds of it you are incredibly ignorant of anything to do with Left in Britain.

You've read a few articles in a magazine and think you are the dogs very clever bollocks. Fuck off

I know more than enough about the Left in Britain from so many sources, in particular the AWL from people in my group telling me about their personal experiences with them, also talking to them on stalls.

Btw I am the dog's very clever bollocks. I will however now fuck off to leave you to salivate over pro-Zionist shite, you should be deeply thankful for my contribution to your thread (hey, the link wasn't even working at first ;) ).

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I haven't declared any support for "workers liberty".

You make judgments and leap to conclusions on politics because you are presumably insecure and unhappy


If you had taken the time to read the website you would have realised "they" are anti-zionist. The image you have of the left only exists in your mind and It's not particularly relevant what your opinion is on this topic because most socialist groups outside, or perhaps in your experience who possess intelligence give time to Israeli's who bravely go to jail for refusing to serve in the IDF.

[AvanteRedGarde]

RAIM, others wreck Zionist-led war mongering against Iran

(www.raimd.wordpress.com)

On October 28th, Uzi Landua, a hard-line Zionist and long-time high-ranking official in the Israeli state, spoke at the Auraria campus in Denver. Landau was invited by the Zionist group, the Amerikan-Israeli Student Affairs Committee, to discuss the supposed threat posed by Iran. RAIM had other ideas.

Word about the event reached Denver's activist community less than two days prior. The day before the event, officials from the student government and University of Kolorado asked activist Glenn Spagnuolo to call off a protest, stating it would force the speaking engagement to be canceled because it would create a security bill too large for the school to bear (an additional $3,500 supposedly). Spagnuolo, a student and organizer from the DNC protest-coalition Recreate '68, and was in Israel when Rachel Corrie was ran over by a made-in-Amerika tractor, driven by an IDF soldier, while Uzi Laudau was 'Security' Minister of the settler state. Glenn insisted that even if Landau had lunch on campus, which was also scheduled, there would be a some sort of a protest. Eventually, the Israeli embassy (read: Israeli state) footed the security bill.

The day of the event, a snowstorm blew into Denver, causing the campus to be closed 30 minutes prior to the start of the event. Because of the strict security the would-be audience of 25 or so was forced to wait outside, huddling against the door. A small protest of around 10 or so gathered, including some RAIMers. A RAIMer took the opportunity to hand out an special informational flier to everyone waiting to get in, sparking a debate between a hardcore Zionist and those in the crowd.

After the doors were opened, and after the crowd and protesters passed a metal detector wand and bag check, they were greeted to large amounts of pizza and soda. RAIMers helped themselves and made sure that everyone who didn't get already get a copy of our informational flier, got one. It wasn't hard. In the end, the audience numbered around 40-45, which included the protesters. The Zionists student organizers, Uzi and his entourage were around 10-15. There were also around 15 pigs and 10 campus and student staff.

Uzi was flanked by a bodyguard who looked like an angry Lurch from the Adams family, with a bad military haircut, a black trench coat and obviously armed. As Uzi walked on stage, most in the audience clapped in applause. RAIMers and other protesters instead greeted him with loud boos. Boos and hisses persisted and steadily grew more frequent as his Cold War-esque, militarist screed continued. RAIMers occasionally interrupted Uzi's speech with shouts of "war criminal," "liar" and "what about Palestinians?" and clapped in applause when Uzi claimed Iran was pursuing nuclear weapon capabilities.

For his part, Uzi was a crude spokesman for the Israeli state, explicitly linking Israel and Amerika's security and calling for the "free world" to confront the Iran. Whereas many in the audience already found Israel questionable, the information prepared ahead of time by RAIM and protesters' on the spot agit-prop helped bring out more a wider, more visible hostility towards his message. Uzi, feeling the pressure from the unsympathetic crowd, kept his speech short and fulfilled his obligation to field questions.

A RAIMer took the first questions, referencing the fact-sheet and asking Uzi to account for disparities in casualties between Israelis and Palestinians; and if he agreed with the idea that the state of Israel is the fulfillment of a promise by 'God' and not in need of further justification. Every question asked of Uzi thereafter was critical of Zionism and the Israeli state. There was no more discussion of Iran. Uzi was forced to fruitlessly defend Israel for the remainder of the event. As he left the stage, he was parted with more and louder boos.

Rather than finding a receptive audience for his militarist cheerleading against Iran, Uzi Landau was met with effective opposition from Denver activists and Palestine supporters, including RAIM. The event, which cost thousands of dollars for both the University of Kolorado and the Israeli state, became polarized with the majority of the audience finding themselves on the side of vocal opposition towards Zionism. Incidentally, RAIM was the only organized group with a presence at the event; we talked with Palestine supporters and hand out a few RAIM Digests. Uzi Landau's Zionist war-mongering was wrecked.

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It's funny to hear revolutionaries talk about the Israeli "zionist" working class not being interested in aligning with the palestinian working class when every class struggle in history has been branded with the same reactionary skepticism.