Acorn

[Die Rote Fahne]

Now, a lot of right wing douchebags are on ACORN's case because of the actions of a handful of employees.

The whole prostitution advice scandal, etc.

The right wing are so stupid.

I want both the restricted and my comrades to explain to me about ACORN so I can see the difference of view points, and logic used.

FOX News is the biggest cause of this nonsense....and it pisses me off.

[Havet]

Which one of these are you referring to:

Companies and organizations

ACORN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACORN) (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now), a USA community-based organization advocating for low- and moderate-income families
Acorn Computers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Computers) (1978–1998), a manufacturer of computers including the Acorn Electron, the BBC Micro and the Acorn Archimedes
Acorn Computers (2006) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Computers_%282006%29), a manufacturer of Windows-only computers, licensing the Acorn trademark
Acorn Stores (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Stores), a clothing retail chain
Acorns Children's Hospice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorns_Children%27s_Hospice)

Places

Acorn, Arkansas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn,_Arkansas)
Acorn, California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn,_California)
Acorn, Oakland, California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn,_Oakland,_California), a housing complex
Acorn Community (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Community), Virginia

Other uses

ACORN (demographics) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACORN_%28demographics%29), a geodemographic classification system
The Acorn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Acorn), a musical group
Acute Care of at-Risk Newborns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acute_Care_of_at-Risk_Newborns) (ACoRN), a neonatal resuscitation program
Milton Acorn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_Acorn) (1923–1986), Canadian poet

[bcbm]

Which one of these are you referring to

so you can take the time to look all that up, but apparently couldn't be troubled to google "acorn scandal" or "acorn fox news?" :rolleyes:

[Havet]

so you can take the time to look all that up, but apparently couldn't be troubled to google "acorn scandal" or "acorn fox news?" :rolleyes:

I want to make sure I don't pick the wrong meaning.:cool:

[Jazzratt]

so you can take the time to look all that up, but apparently couldn't be troubled to google "acorn scandal" or "acorn fox news?" :rolleyes:

"All that time" being the time it takes to find the wikipedia disambiguation page for the term "acorn".

Anyway, haenmill the meaning is that first one [ACORN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACORN) (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now), a USA community-based organization advocating for low- and moderate-income families]. As far as I see it the right have a bee in their bonnet because some ACORN employees gave a bit of dodgy advice which was caught on camera. Fox News seems to be ring-leading some sort of media citcus which hilariously misunderstands the scope of the word "scandal". The whole thing is just hilariously overblown and makes no sense to me.

[Havet]

"All that time" being the time it takes to find the wikipedia disambiguation page for the term "acorn".

Anyway, haenmill the meaning is that first one [ACORN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACORN) (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now), a USA community-based organization advocating for low- and moderate-income families]. As far as I see it the right have a bee in their bonnet because some ACORN employees gave a bit of dodgy advice which was caught on camera. Fox News seems to be ring-leading some sort of media citcus which hilariously misunderstands the scope of the word "scandal". The whole thing is just hilariously overblown and makes no sense to me.

Ah, thank you Jazzratt

So the scandal is not really a scandal? Why are we wasting time with it then?

[Jazzratt]

So the scandal is not really a scandal? Why are we wasting time with it then?

Right-wing outlets like Fox News dislike ACORN for the same reason they hate organisations like the ACLU and so on; they make life difficult for you if you want to piss all over poor people and minority groups (it's a very basic analysis, but you get the point). As a result any molehill within the organisation they can try to make into a mountain is treated as a godsend and any internal discipline matters they come across become scandals.

[Bud Struggle]

As a result any molehill within the organisation they can try to make into a mountain is treated as a godsend and any internal discipline matters they come across become scandals.

It also works in the other direction. That's just how politics is played. It confuses and obfuscates the real issues about how people are being governed.

It's half the people's fault, though. They rather read about postitution scandals than economic issues.

[Robert]

I want both the restricted and my comrades to explain to me about ACORN so I can see the difference of view points, and logic used.

Why explain? It sounds to me like your mind is already made up.

But the Left has a good laugh and paints the right as hypocrites every time a conservative congressman gets caught with his zipper down. What's the difference?

As for ACORN, this article froma conservative magazine claims that the organization has included as part of its agenda an overburdening of welfare offices with a view toward “a radical reconstruction of America’s unjust capitalist economy. Instead of a socialist utopia, however, we got the culture of dependency and family breakdown that ate away at America’s inner cities — until welfare reform began to turn the tide."

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NDZiMjkwMDczZWI5ODdjOWYxZTIzZGIyNzEyMjE0ODI=

We discussed in the health care reform thread whether reform is ultimately good or bad for the revolution. The same dynamic is at work in the minds of some, it appears, in the area of welfare reform. As a reactionary, I obviously oppose overburdening of welfare service systems, especially if the aim is to destroy social democracy and replace it with ...

god knows what.

[RGacky3]

It also works in the other direction. That's just how politics is played. It confuses and obfuscates the real issues about how people are being governed.

It's half the people's fault, though. They rather read about postitution scandals than economic issues.

It works in the other direction? Any examples? This is mainly a fox news type of thing.

About prostitution and so on, the news media TELLS people what is important, and thus (some) people follow.

[Bud Struggle]

Any examples?

Yea just quickly, MY Congressmen one after the other:

From the Left: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Foley_scandal

And from the Right: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Politics/story?id=5997043&page=1&page=1


And from the Left how about Mark Sanford:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Sanford_disappearance_and_extramarital_affair

There were major hopes by Republicans he was going to run against Obama in '12.

And from the Right: Eliot Spitzer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliot_Spitzer_prostitution_scandal

It goes on forever. The media from the Left is just as bad as from the Right. It's not like the Democrats are some kind of good guys.

[GPDP]

http://www.credoaction.com/comics/TMW2009-10-07colorlowres.jpg

[Havet]

http://www.credoaction.com/comics/TMW2009-10-07colorlowres.jpg

Awesome Find

[RGacky3]

And from the Left how about Mark Sanford:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Sa...marital_affair (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Sanford_disappearance_and_extramarital_affair )



From the Left: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Foley_scandal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Foley_scandal)

These were just individuals attacked for hypocricy, it was'nt a few guys doing shady stuff in a right wing organization and then the liberals trying to destroy the entire organization.

The fact is those INDIVIDUALS were attacked for what they did, as was John Edwards. With Acorn the entire organization is being attacked, as some sort of conspiracy, when the real problem fox news has with it is that its a community help project, it directly helps poor people rather than the powers that be.

[Jazzratt]

It's immensly incongrous to compare the reaction to sexual scandals to the current attack on ACORN as having a policy of telling people to build brothels. As I understand it the organisation is so large and widespread that things like this are quite abbererant, certainly evidence gathered from a few centre staff is not going to be any kind of reliable proof of widespread wrongdoing.

On the other hand there are sex scandals of conservative politicians. Personally I don't think they should be anything more than, perhaps, fodder for the gossip pages. The problem is that these do prove the politician in question is a massive lying hypocrite because they invariably have insane ston-age sexual politics. If your agenda is to introduce abstinance only sex education, ban abortions, ban gay marriage and all the other big steps backwards these politicans advocate and you're caught with your dick in the wrong place then you are a fucking hypocrite. It's that simple. It's "do as I say, not as I do" morality.

That is the difference.

[Robert]

As I understand it the organisation is so large and widespread that things like this are quite abbererant

Yes, as are the cases of congressmen getting caught with their dicks in the wrong place.
Of course, we only know about the ones getting caught.

On both sides.

Indignation is just a matter of whose ox is getting gored.

[Die Rote Fahne]

The reason the scandals differ is because the people on the left aren't proporting this almighty righteous and down right hypocrisy as those hwo comit thwe scandal on the right.

Sanford was noted for calling for Clinton to resign because of his scandal, not lieing, but the blow job.

It's the hypocrisy involved.

[Robert]

You guys are getting all worked up over "hypocrisy" and it's leading to absurd parallels.

Hypocrisy exists in Congress and yes, it is a character flaw. Nobody's perfect. Point conceded.

I am sure we all agree, however, that there is a difference between: a) a consensual extramarital affair; and b) laundering money and claiming underage prostitutes as your dependents (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/pimp_hooker_catch_klyn_staff_Js4YPEcsCcxLZhAEehLhm L/1) for tax purposes.

"B" is what the ACORN rep was caught doing. No one denies this. Not even ACORN denies it.

Catching a Republican (http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/21/jefferson.search/index.html) congressman with an underage prostitute, or a Democratic (http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/21/jefferson.search/index.html) Congressman with wads of bribe money hidden in his freezer, would be a relevant hypocritical interlude. But how often does that happen?

Hayenmill, it works! I always knowed you wuz a genius!:lol:

[Bud Struggle]

It's immensly incongrous to compare the reaction to sexual scandals to the current attack on ACORN as having a policy of telling people to build brothels. As I understand it the organisation is so large and widespread that things like this are quite abbererant, certainly evidence gathered from a few centre staff is not going to be any kind of reliable proof of widespread wrongdoing.


Good point.

How about this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

It's a large organization--relatively few priests did anything wrong--but the Catholic Church was widely castigated.

Anyway the point is that it's a game and everyone plays it if they get the chance. But also there's nothing wrong for organization and individuals on the left and the right getting called out for crappy things they do.

It certainly better than covering things up.

[Jazzratt]

Yes, as are the cases of congressmen getting caught with their dicks in the wrong place.
Of course, we only know about the ones getting caught.

On both sides.

Indignation is just a matter of whose ox is getting gored.

Right. But no one but the most thick-headed says "the right-wing christian party that x congressman belonged to must be staffed entirely by hypocrites" when one of them is caught getting his end away. That's the point I was trying to make. In the politician scandal it's just the politician that's shat upon, in this kind of media circus though entire organisations get tarred with the same brush.

Not to lend you ammunition or anything but I think it's a lot closer to the undercover documenteries we get sometimes of police forces being full of racist, misogynist macho pricks. Personally I think it's stupid to condemn entire organisations based on that kind of thing without more supporting evidence.

[bcbm]

Instead of a socialist utopia, however, we got the culture of dependency and family breakdown that ate away at America’s inner cities — until welfare reform began to turn the tide.

yeah, it was welfare, not the massive deindustrialization of the 1970's that destroyed the economy of the inner city and left all of the jobs to the suburbs where inner city residents couldn't get to them.