Council Communism

[Die Rote Fahne]

It really seems like something I can get behind. I admit, I have only read up on it through wikipedia, which is why I'm asking you guys.

What exactly is it?

Who in history has been a supporter of it?

Thanks =P

[Искра]

I think that this (http://www.revleft.com/vb/left-communism-t119962/index.html) may help you.

[cenv]

Unlike Leninism and its derivative tendencies, council communism holds that workers' councils, not a traditional party, are the vehicle of communist revolution. Council communists see workers' councils as the best way to empower the working class (as opposed to using a structure like the party to mediate working-class power), as workers' councils allow the workers themselves to reorganize political and economic life along radically democratic lines while breaking decisively with the bourgeois state, "professional revolutionaries," etc.

LibCom has a good introduction to council communism (http://libcom.org/thought/council-communism-an-introduction) (and some really good links to other resources).

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Can any Council Communist answer me this: what is the difference between my ldeology, Anarcho-Syndicalism, and Council Communism.

[Durruti's Ghost]

I'm not a council communist, but I think that they plan to leave the State intact/reconstitute it in some form during the transition to communism. The State wouldn't be in control of the means of production, though; the councils would.

[Devrim]

It really seems like something I can get behind. I admit, I have only read up on it through wikipedia, which is why I'm asking you guys.

What exactly is it?

Who in history has been a supporter of it?

The 'council communists' are descended from the German KAPD, which was formed after being expelled, despite being a majority, from The KPD.

I am not sure when exactly the term 'council communism' was first used, but I think that early on it was synonymous with 'left communism'.

After the revolution was clearly defeated the party split with some groups becoming more and more as time progressed against the party form.

The ideas of these groups are generally what is referred to today as council communism.

Probably the leading theorist of the movement was Anton Pannekoek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Pannekoek).


Can any Council Communist answer me this: what is the difference between my ldeology, Anarcho-Syndicalism, and Council Communism.


I am not a council communist either. I am a left communist, but I will try to answer. There aren't really any council communists groups left today. I think that there anti-organisational ideas are partly responsible for this.

For a start the vast majority of council communists are opposed to unions, even syndicalist ones. The exception being the group around Paul Mattick in the US, which was involved with the IWW.

Secondly, council communists were Marxists, not anarchists.


I'm not a council communist, but I think that they plan to leave the State intact/reconstitute it in some form during the transition to communism. The State wouldn't be in control of the means of production, though; the councils would.

The council communists talked about a 'council state'.

Devrim

[Stranger Than Paradise]

I am not a council communist either. I am a left communist, but I will try to answer. There aren't really any council communists groups left today. I think that there anti-organisational ideas are partly responsible for this.

For a start the vast majority of council communists are opposed to unions, even syndicalist ones. The exception being the group around Paul Mattick in the US, which was involved with the IWW.

Secondly, council communists were Marxists, not anarchists.


Oh they are opposed to unions. So finding that out can anyone tell me what a Council Communists strategy would be in how the working class should organise before revolution.

[Muzk]

Spontaneity, probably

[Devrim]

Oh they are opposed to unions. So finding that out can anyone tell me what a Council Communists strategy would be in how the working class should organise before revolution.

The working class organises itself through mass meetings, strike committies, and ultimately workers' councils. I think there are enough historic examples for everyone to be aware of this, but if you want I will list them.

In fact the anarchosyndicalist CNT in Spain, as far as I understand, has ceased operating as a union, and is now operating more as a political faction intervening in mass assemblies.

Anarchosyndicalism is a very attractive ideology. In fact I used to be one myself, many, many years ago. It has a basic problem though. Outside of revolutionary periods the mass of workers are not revolutionaries. It is impossible to maintain revolutionary mass unitary organisation outside of these periods. Either the organisation is democratic in which case in accepts the opinions of the workers and ceases to be revolutionary, or it holds on to a 'revolutionary' phraseology against the will of its members.

History shows that unions that start as revolutionary ones end up acting just like the 'yellow' unions and collaberating with the state, or being crushed.

I think that if you listen to the ideas that are coming out of anarchosyndicalism today, many of them have at least begun to recognise this problem. Examples could be the Argentinia FORA, or the Russian KRAS, which seem to be advocating 'unions of revolutionaries' rather than 'revolutionary unions'. A recent discussion doccument in SolFed points in the same direction. The CNT seems more confused.

I think it is a question of recognising the historical period we are in. We will never again see mass revolutionary unions like the CNT was in its early days.

Incidentaly, left communists are not against communist factory groups constructed on a political basis, and in the past organised these sort of groups with hundreds of thousands of members.

Devrim

[Stranger Than Paradise]

But these revolutionary unions don't exist in periods of low class consciousness, they arise out of times of high class consciousness. It is not a flaw of Anarcho-Syndicalism, it is something accepted by it. At least in modern times it is.

[Devrim]

But these revolutionary unions don't exist in periods of low class consciousness, they arise out of times of high class consciousness. It is not a flaw of Anarcho-Syndicalism, it is something accepted by it. At least in modern times it is.

So are you saying that there aren't anarchosyndicalists today trying to build revolutionary unions?

Devrim

[Stranger Than Paradise]

So are you saying that there aren't anarchosyndicalists today trying to build revolutionary unions?

Devrim

Yes we are trying to build them. But we're not in the position to do that yet and recognise that. Wasn't that what you were arguing? That Anarcho-syndicalists were building revolutionary unions in times of low class concsciousness?

[Patchd]

The Manchester group of the AFed reproduced a few 'classics' from Council Communists in pamphlet forms in case you wanna read up on them:

http://www.af-north.org/?q=other+texts

[el_chavista]

Let me submit these links:

Council Communism International Communist Current http://en.internationalism.org/taxonomy/term/80

Kurasy - Council Communist Archive http://www.kurasje.org/arksys/archset.htm

http://www.internetarchaeology.org/9973/council.html

[Devrim]

Yes we are trying to build them. But we're not in the position to do that yet and recognise that. Wasn't that what you were arguing? That Anarcho-syndicalists were building revolutionary unions in times of low class concsciousness?

Actually what I am arguing is that some anarchosyndicalists simply proclaim themselves to be a union when they are not. The IWW for example (Yes I know it is not anarchosyndicalist, but there are some in there) is not a union in the UK and has a handful of shops (some with no strike deals) in the US. The ASI (Serbian section of the AIT) has less than a 100 people yet claims to be a union), even the CNT has only a few thousand today and can't really operate as a union any more. I remember DAM in the UK deciding that it was changing itself into a union.

Basically, these organisations are not real unions at all (with the exception of the CNT and IWW in a few places), and where they are they are forced to act like the 'yellow' unions, as with the IWW and no strike deals.

You can't build the mass unitary organs of the class through voluntarism, and even if you were to be succesful, they would end up the same as the old unions.

Devrim