The Fear of Narks

[KarlMarx1989]

I have been bothered with the whole alien UFOs at Area 51 and such. I wonder, just how hard is it to believe that the US government has just been testing soon-to-come military aircraft secretly because they fear that there will always be someone who will give that away to an enemy country?

Isn't that what other industrial countries do?

Discuss:

[Psy]

I have been bothered with the whole alien UFOs at Area 51 and such. I wonder, just how hard is it to believe that the US government has just been testing soon-to-come military aircraft secretly because they fear that there will always be someone who will give that away to an enemy country?

Isn't that what other industrial countries do?

Discuss:
While true those that believe in UFO don't just base their whole argument on Area 51 for example UFO - Cylinder Chased by Soviet MIG-21 Accelerates (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4468185100897567649#)

[KarlMarx1989]

I am aware of that. There are a lot of people in England who believe in alien UFOs because of some aircraft crash outside a military base there.

All I am saying is that there are no alien aircrafts. It is governments are testing aircraft secretly so other countries can't get ahead of them. I also think that some of the ones in the 1970's / 1980's were Cold War spies. Like the one that crashed in England: I believe that was a Russian aircraft that crashed. It was nuclear powered, as I understand. I think that if "aliens" were advanced enough to travel through space without being destroyed or something then they wouldn't have to resort to a primitive (and rather Earthly idea) power source as nuclear power.

[punisa]

Hmm, interesting topics. What is our stance on UFO from a socialist standpoint of view anyway? If they do exists, I have some doubts that such info could actually be contained with small government groups.

Thing I don't understand it what kind of meaningless, surely bourgeoisie, life one must be living in order to create and elaborate complex hoaxes ??

[KarlMarx1989]

what kind of meaningless, surely bourgeoisie, life one must be living in order to create and elaborate complex hoaxes
I think that the US government released something similar to "it was an alien" to the media to get people sidetracked; mostly, I think, so people won't be mainly concentrated to finding out what they are making and testing.

[Spawn of Stalin]

I don't really care for UFOs and such, but you don't have to be an Alex Jones type to know with 99% certainty that the United States are testing all new types of gear that they want to keep under wraps, whether or not it has anything to do with UFO sightings we do not know, and I doubt we ever will.

[gorillafuck]

Hmm, interesting topics. What is our stance on UFO from a socialist standpoint of view anyway?
I don't think there is a "socialist view on UFO's"....

[KarlMarx1989]

I, actually, find it fascinating that people who don't believe in a god really believe that there are species in space that were advanced enough to make it from "lightyears" away without succumbing to the unpredictable attributes of space itself. They may not believe in an all-present, all-knowing, all-powerful god, but they believe in beings who came from a far away place [in space] to watch / study us.

[punisa]

I don't think there is a "socialist view on UFO's"....

Well I think it would be a darn good idea to finally come up with one ! :laugh:
You see the amount of followers loonies such as scientologiests are getting? I say we start preaching that Karl Marx was from planet Zord, this board would be flooded with "Marx sightseeings" in matter of days :laugh:

[punisa]

I, actually, find it fascinating that people who don't believe in a god really believe that there are species in space that were advanced enough to make it from "lightyears" away without succumbing to the unpredictable attributes of space itself. They may not believe in an all-present, all-knowing, all-powerful god, but they believe in beings who came from a far away place [in space] to watch / study us.

Well.. thinking that somewhere out in space there is high chance of an intelligent form of life doesn't necessary equal to "aliens are coming to abduct me" point of view you just mentioned :lol:

[Revy]

There have been socialists who have touched upon the subject...



Beginning in 1968, Posadas [an Argentine Trotskyist leader] also became known for his theories concerning UFOs. He believed that the existence of UFOs demonstrated the existence of socialism on other planets and that only a socialist society could produce the technology needed for interplanetary travel. Moreover, he argued that as the occupants of UFOs (who were either socialists from other planets or socialists from a future earth travelling back in time) were advanced communists they should be urged to help lead the terrestrial socialist revolution.


In his pamphlet Les Soucoupes Volantes, le processus de la matiere et de l'energie, la science et le socialisme (Flying Saucers, the process of matter and energy, science and socialism) Posadas speculated that the reason UFOs do not stay very long is because “Capitalism doesn’t interest the UFO pilots, which is why they do not return. Similarly, the Soviet bureaucracy (doesn’t interest them) as they don’t have perspective.” His work ends by pleading that "“We must call upon beings from other planets when they come to intervene, to collaborate with the inhabitants of the Earth to overcome misery. We must launch a call on them to use their resources to help us.”


The obsession of the Posadist movement with UFOs has led others to quip that while Trotsky argued against the theory of socialism in one country, Posadas argued against "socialism on one planet".

[Psy]

I, actually, find it fascinating that people who don't believe in a god really believe that there are species in space that were advanced enough to make it from "lightyears" away without succumbing to the unpredictable attributes of space itself. They may not believe in an all-present, all-knowing, all-powerful god, but they believe in beings who came from a far away place [in space] to watch / study us.

Well it is impossible to know the limits of alien technology but odds any alien craft that reaches us would be nothing more then automated probes probably dead automated probes long out contact with the alien society that built it, just like how our probes will probably eventually be noticed by a alien race but by then they would basically be space junk moving through space.

[Yazman]

Well, we know there is something odd up there going on. We can't be sure what, but already some governments have admitted that there are unexplainable craft zooming around sometimes on record whether its footage taken by their own pilots (as in Mexico) or records and data that come from radar tracking (as in france, the UK, et al). What exactly it is, we can't be sure, but we should not have closed minds regarding it. This doesn't mean we need to jump to conclusions either, but to immediately say "non-human pilots, lol so stupid alex jones blady blady blah" shows a lack of critical thinking.

[Revy]

Well, we know there is something odd up there going on. We can't be sure what, but already some governments have admitted that there are unexplainable craft zooming around sometimes on record whether its footage taken by their own pilots (as in Mexico) or records and data that come from radar tracking (as in france, the UK, et al). What exactly it is, we can't be sure, but we should not have closed minds regarding it. This doesn't mean we need to jump to conclusions either, but to immediately say "non-human pilots, lol so stupid alex jones blady blady blah" shows a lack of critical thinking.

Exactly.

I basically agree with Posadas' view. That there probably are many extraterrestrials visiting Earth, but they don't want to engage with us. I think it's obvious why.

What you see is just a lot of people who don't want to be seen as "crazy" or "out there" so they either keep their views to themselves or pretend they don't believe aliens exist.

So unless a UFO lands in front of the United Nations, aliens walk out and give a speech, no amount of evidence will please those who have already made up their mind.

[RHIZOMES]

This thread makes me facepalm so bad.

A UFO is exactly it's description, an unidentified flying object. While space aliens is a (remote) possibility, I really don't get why everyone just immediately jumps to the conclusion that UFOs = aliens. For all we know they could be secret government projects or what have you.

[Yazman]

Read my post and you'll find that I do not advocate jumping to any conclusions, but on the same token I am also strongly critical of anybody who immediately rules out a possibility.

[Das war einmal]

An UFO thread? Really? Now come on...

[Yazman]

An UFO thread? Really? Now come on...

This is the sort of thinking that I am highly critical of.

[Das war einmal]

This is the sort of thinking that I am highly critical of.

Not that its not interesting material, but don't you all think we have slightly more important matters at hand?

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Most likely these sightings are government aircrafts no? Surely the one in that video is a US aircraft.

[chegitz guevara]

I'm increasingly coming to the idea that either there is some barrier to interstellar travel we don't yet understand or we're the first intelligent species in this galaxy . . . at least to survive destroying itself . . . so far. I certainly don't believe we are being visited by aliens from another world.

[Omi]

Not that its not interesting material, but don't you all think we have slightly more important matters at hand?

What are you doing on Revleft if you have something better to do?;)

But yeah, I do believe there are aliens out there. I wouldn't know if they visited earth or not, but surely we couldn't be the only ''intelligent'' life out there. Didn't read up on the subject though.

[KarlMarx1989]

Most likely these sightings are government aircrafts no? Surely the one in that video is a US aircraft.
Thank you. That's exactly what I thought after a couple of times watching the video through. I also think that most of those

unexplainable craft zooming around sometimes on record whether its footage taken by their own pilots (as in Mexico) or records and data that come from radar tracking (as in france, the UK, et al).
is nothing but government aircraft...from other countries, of course; but they simply (depending on when these events occurred) were spies.

I seriously can't believe something that came from science fiction novels and movies to be real; especially the bias coming from most of the documentaries about UFOs.

[RHIZOMES]

I'm increasingly coming to the idea that either there is some barrier to interstellar travel we don't yet understand or we're the first intelligent species in this galaxy . . . at least to survive destroying itself . . . so far. I certainly don't believe we are being visited by aliens from another world.

Yeah it's that whole light-speed thing, "warp drive" (like in Star Trek) is most likely impossible. I'm of course just basing this off current scientific information, which is pretty convincing.

[Omi]

I seriously can't believe something that came from science fiction novels and movies to be real; especially the bias coming from most of the documentaries about UFOs.


That's a problem I ran into aswell. I can't find a good scientific documentairy/lenghty article about the possibility of extraterrestrial visitors, it's all conspiracy crap or debunking of the conspiracy crap.