What to tell a racist.

[btpound]

Here in America, now that Obama is president, people her feel like racism is behind us, or at least the majority of it as Sen. Byrd says. When in fact African-Americans have been thrown into a cycle that makes them permanent second class citizens, and much of the whole country, not just the south, still holds racist views. Often I encounter people who call this person a spic or that person a nigger. I am a little hypersensitive to racism, and hate when people think I will agree with them just because I am white too. My question is, how do you approach someone who says these kind of things? The normal reaction is to act with violence, and although I am not a pacifist, I don't just want to kick his ass, because he doesn't learn anything from that. How do you explain to him that racism is wrong in a way that will actually convince him it is wrong.

PS. I always wondered what the PC term for African-Americans is in other countries. African-Britons? African-Australians? Or do you not distinguish race at all?

[Sean]

In the UK they are black people.

[Bill Hadnot]

You have to make a choice whether or not you're going to have enough time around these people to attempt to deprogram them. It's highly unlikely that you'll be able to say anything that'll quickly change them, it'll be an educational effort over time. Otherwise you should treat these people as the enemy, but that doesn't include, in the current situation, doing actions that could lead to confrontation with the armed forces under command of the capitalist ruling class.

[The Red Next Door]

tell them to go fucking suck a cock, you fascist motherfucker.

[Axle]

If its just someone I'll never see again, I just ignore them. If its someone I'm friends with, I usually just tell them to shut the fuck up, and then explain their stupidity to them. But I don't even bother trying to argue against racism with my parents anymore. It usually turns into a shouting match.

[Die Rote Fahne]

When people downplay the holocaust and call Obama Hitler, breaking Godwin's law because of healthcare, can you really think racism is a past thing?

It is a minority, but it is ever present.

Arguging with a racist is like arguing with a dining room table. It's not productive and a waste of time.

[btpound]

Discussing this with people is both important and necessary. I can't just tell them to fuck off or call them names, which is my immediate reaction, because A) Most of these people I work with, and B) it further polarizes them to these views. When someone is antagonistic in that way, and not offering an open discourse about it, it only deepens their resentment and instills in them a deeper desire to fight for a cause they feel is unpopular. Really, the reason racism exists is simply inertia. They got these views from somewhere, possibly family or their community (school, friends, etc.) and simply adopted these views without ever thinking about it at all. If they were forced to examine their racist perspective, they will realize that it is wrong, and only holds them back. As their friend and co-worker, I am in a unique position to approach them about it in a way that will not be seen as antagonistic. I think it is ridiculous to say that i should not waste my time, because changing their minds is the first step in awakening the world to their class consciousness. What is the task of the revolutionary if not firstly education and guidance?

[h0m0revolutionary]

tell them to go fucking suck a cock, you fascist motherfucker.

Because sucking a cock is an abominable act right?

idiot.

[Die Rote Fahne]

Because sucking a cock is an abominable act right?

idiot.

Don't be so uptight. Jesus Christ.

What do you think is an insult to a fascist? Saying go eat a vagina? No, the fascist is gonna be a homophobe.

[Jazzratt]

Don't be so uptight. Jesus Christ.

What do you think is an insult to a fascist? Saying go eat a vagina? No, the fascist is gonna be a homophobe.

That doesn't give you an excuse to be homophobic youreslf, does it? I'm fairly sure they would find it greatly insulting if you said "your mum's a jew" but that doesn't mean you wouldn't be a racist little shit.

Fucking hell, I thought we'd managed to get past this sort of shit. More fool me for harbouring even a vestige of optimism.

[revolution inaction]

Don't be so uptight. Jesus Christ.

What do you think is an insult to a fascist? Saying go eat a vagina? No, the fascist is gonna be a homophobe.

when insulting fascists we're obliged to use insults based on oral sex? i never knew that :blink:

[proudcomrade]

That doesn't give you an excuse to be homophobic youreslf, does it? I'm fairly sure they would find it greatly insulting if you said "your mum's a jew" but that doesn't mean you wouldn't be a racist little shit.

You yourself once sent me an unsolicited private message calling me one of the most disgusting misogynist slurs in the English language. Maybe you should put that bag of stones down and go reflect a little further before throwing any more of them. Your own forum behavior has been woefully bigoted and antisocial in the past; what gives you the right to point out the same in anyone else?

[Jia]

That doesn't give you an excuse to be homophobic youreslf, does it? I'm fairly sure they would find it greatly insulting if you said "your mum's a jew" but that doesn't mean you wouldn't be a racist little shit.

Fucking hell, I thought we'd managed to get past this sort of shit. More fool me for harbouring even a vestige of optimism.

I think he was making a message without much thinking, so it is excusable, but maybe he should think more of it in his next postings. I think we should leave him be and drop that matter and return to the original post :)

[Jazzratt]

You yourself once sent me an unsolicited private message calling me one of the most disgusting misogynist slurs in the English language. Maybe you should put that bag of stones down and go reflect a little further before throwing any more of them. Your own forum behavior has been woefully bigoted and antisocial in the past; what gives you the right to point out the same in anyone else?

Oh fuck off you stupid twat. Hurling abuse (which, by the way, I would hardly characterise as "misogynist") that you richly deserve and being a homophobic (or in your case transphobic) moron are somewhat different. Yes, I am often insulting, but the idea of some prick who feels justified in calling trans people "trannies" calling me bigoted is fucking laughable.

[proudcomrade]

Oh fuck off you stupid twat. Hurling abuse (which, by the way, I would hardly characterise as "misogynist") that you richly deserve and being a homophobic (or in your case transphobic) moron are somewhat different. Yes, I am often insulting, but the idea of some prick who feels justified in calling trans people "trannies" calling me bigoted is fucking laughable.

Keep proving my point. :thumbup1:

[btpound]

Wow. This is so disappointing.

[The Red Next Door]

exactly

[The Red Next Door]

Because sucking a cock is an abominable act right?

idiot.
No, its not but you know how they are.

[Jazzratt]

Wow. This is so disappointing.

To adress your original point, then:

There is no single pithy statement or argument that's going to convince a racist. This doesn't mean don't try, just that it won't be easy. Some might genuinely be ignorant and if told that their assumed superiority is scientificly bollocks will reconsider. Some might be wilfully ignorant, in which case trying to convince them of anything will be much harder, although perhaps practical illustrations of their prejuidices being false might help.

If you're just confronting some bloke off the street for calling someone a nigger though you're probably not going to get much further than a shouting match and/or fistfight. Unless they're one of the five people in the world who doesn't realise how atrociously offensive they're being.

[rebelmouse]

if you have racists who work beside you daily, you must see psychology of such people, their personal character, and choose how to argue with them. you can just express your love for foreigners and they will see that there are people who don't hate anybody. but in any case, people change themselves slowly, so, you must have patience.

[proudcomrade]

Racism is fueled by capitalist exploitation to a pretty significant degree. What it is probably going to take to change racists, is justice for workers, and far, far-improved access to education. The USA suffers from a lot of systemic problems that prevent these very things right now, along with uneven population distribution where one ethnic background had been allowed to live in isolation in huge swathes of rural land for far too long. When the slightest change to that state of affairs happened, the locals were poorly prepared, and predictably turned to various prejudices and suspicions against the new neighbors. Meanwhile, the flawed "representative democracy" of this system allows people from these territories disproportional amounts of representation in the government; and if these people tend to be conservative, too, then, there go further chances for even the most piecemeal reforms that would help lift them out of racism and ignorance- and around and around the vicious circle goes, and has gone for over 200 years.

[Die Rote Fahne]

That doesn't give you an excuse to be homophobic youreslf, does it? I'm fairly sure they would find it greatly insulting if you said "your mum's a jew" but that doesn't mean you wouldn't be a racist little shit.

Fucking hell, I thought we'd managed to get past this sort of shit. More fool me for harbouring even a vestige of optimism.

How am I being homophobic? I would gladly tell a female racist to suck a dick. It is a simple insult meant to infuriate/agitate the other person. That is it.

If I said their mum was a Jew, it wouldn't mean I'm racist at all. It would mean I don't really care what I use as to piss someone off. Calling anyone any name or using any term can be considered bigotry or against a group of people. Calling him white trash. Not all white trash is racist. Calling him ugly. That's insulting ugly people etc.

The intent and context of the words/phrase used is important, not the content.

[btpound]

How am I being homophobic? I would gladly tell a female racist to suck a dick. It is a simple insult meant to infuriate/agitate the other person. That is it.

If I said their mum was a Jew, it wouldn't mean I'm racist at all. It would mean I don't really care what I use as to piss someone off. Calling anyone any name or using any term can be considered bigotry or against a group of people. Calling him white trash. Not all white trash is racist. Calling him ugly. That's insulting ugly people etc.

The intent and context of the words/phrase used is important, not the content.

What's important is not your perspective on telling someone to suck a dick, or the racist's perception of sucking a dick, but any third party that heard the exchange, including us, which I assume goes something like this:

IGNORANT RACIST: "God I hate black people."
PROPAGANDI: "Why don't you suck a dick?!"

Anyone looking at the situation or hearing about it second hand would not be able distinguish objectively who is right at all. In fact, any third party hearing the remark would think that kind of homophobic bullshit is okay to say. Which you addmitted its NOT okay, that's why you're saying it. You haven't achieved anything. No one grows from that situation, especially not you. All you do is satisfy your knee-jerk aversion to racism with vulgar slander, and anyone would think you were a reactionary homophobe. And you haven't at all encouraged the racist to change his mind in the slightest, if anything your antagonistic response has only served to further ingrain these views into his consciousnesses. Your crass rebuttle only serves to further polorize the issue of races in his mind. If you were to come at him, not as an enemy who must be shouted down, but as he is, a fellow worker who dosen't have the language to express himself, you might even change his mind. Maybe not, but you don't know until you try. I don't think we should be so quick to crucify a racist, because most of them aren't white power Hitlerian youth. Most of them are working class human beings whose awareness of his world has become narrowed because of the alienation he suffers as a result of capitalism. By only meeting him with idiotic jabber like "Suck a dick" or "You're ugly" you PUSH him to turn to Nazi or other Fascist ideologies if he is the kind of person who is serious about changing his conditions. By carriying on about this issue, and trying to defend what was obviously pasive aggressive gaybashing, takes away from yourself and this discussion.


Homo sum, humani nil a me alienum puto.

[Il Medico]

I usually tell racist to fuck off. But that's just me.

[hugsandmarxism]

Tell a white supremacist "I hope you have a black doctor."

[Invincible Summer]

People who are racist are pretty much irrational. I for one do not know how to talk to them. If they hate race ____ for no reason, how can you reason with them?

[Die Rote Fahne]

Tell a white supremacist "I hope you have a black doctor."

That is win.