EDL in Leeds today.

[Fidel Follower]

Does anyone have any updates on how the protest is going in Leeds? I've heard from a friend that there was quite afew football hooligans on the trains travelling from Manchester way.

I hope everything is going well.

[The Feral Underclass]

It was practically pointless and UAF are a fucking disgrace. An AF member, and someone known to the police in Leeds, got outside the cordon and when he attempted to get back over to avoid the police a UAF steward grabbed him stopping him from getting over and then literally handed him to the approaching police.

As I screamed at them they attempted to justify their actions and from what I can gather they basically don't like anarchists and thought we were responsible for the kicking that was given to some stray EDL member who somehow got into the UAF demo. Ironically it was started by two SWP members, we had nothing to do with it. Not that we wouldn't have. It was blind prejudice towards someone who looked like an anarchist essentially.

This is not to mention that the EDL were able to hold their rally without any physical resistance. Obviously it was almost impossible to get to them because of the police. The 150 actual anti-fascist activists who managed to break out of the UAF cordon and try and get to them were unsuccessful and we were badly organised and it resulted in a scuffle with the police, but at least we fucking tried instead of standing around waiting for Weyman Bennett to come and speak.

I'm sure UAF managed to get a lot of publicity out of it.

[ls]

It was practically pointless and UAF are a fucking disgrace. An AF member, and someone known to the police in Leeds, got outside the cordon and when he attempted to get back over to avoid the police a UAF steward grabbed him stopping him from getting over and then literally handed him to the approaching police.

As I screamed at them they attempted to justify their actions and from what I can gather they basically don't like anarchists and thought we were responsible for the kicking that was given to some stray EDL member who somehow got into the UAF demo. Ironically it was started by two SWP members, we had nothing to do with it. Not that we wouldn't have. It was blind prejudice towards someone who looked like an anarchist essentially.

This is not to mention that the EDL were able to hold their rally without any physical resistance. Obviously it was almost impossible to get to them because of the police. The 150 actual anti-fascist activists who managed to break out of the UAF cordon and try and get to them were unsuccessful and we were badly organised and it resulted in a scuffle with the police, but at least we fucking tried instead of standing around waiting for Weyman Bennett to come and speak.

I'm sure UAF managed to get a lot of publicity out of it.

This is out of order, I didn't think that UAF would even have had stewards at this demo, never mind that they would do something as mind-numbingly self-defeating and quite as conspiratorially with the cops as that! What a total disgrace.

In my mind, it finally totally proves the need for the left to leave UAF behind except for its more militant rank-and-file members, I held out some hope for it before but this is nothing short of unacceptable, furthermore any UAF-affiliated people on here apologising for this action should think carefully, collaboration on this level with the cops is not something any revolutionary left party or affiliated organisation should ever do, especially against a supposed comrade.

[TRS]

The SWP, in their various incarnations, have practically destroyed the left wing protest movement in the UK.

The SWP turn up in massive numbers at any leftist demo, putting people off with their blatant consumerism and constant "in-your-face-ness" of their members trying to sell their rags. Also, I think everybody's fed up of George Galloway speaking at every event under the sun.

The SWP run "Stop The War coallition" have utterly ruined the anti war movement by actively discouraging local action, in the place of larger A-B route marches in London every few months. Due to petty sectarianism, these marches always seem to be organised at the same time as more radical groups plan their action. At the anti militarist conference during the anarchist bookfair, people recounted dozens of tales where they'd organised some kind of local anti-war action, and then mysteriously, a local SWP group had announced a talk/debate or march on the same day.

And then there's the frankly disgusting UAF. There's no will to fight fascism in the UAF's leadership. It's simply about getting new members and funneling newspaper revinue up the capitalist pyramid scheme. actions like theirs are going to discourage any self respecting anti fascist.

I, for one, am fucking fed up of these drones usurping our causes for their own financial and political gain!

[Patchd]

This is out of order, I didn't think that UAF would even have had stewards at this demo, never mind that they would do something as mind-numbingly self-defeating and quite as conspiratorially with the cops as that! What a total disgrace.
Their stewards are at every demo, pushing back alongside the police, grassing up antifascist 'troublemakers' to the police and in this instance (and I'm sure it won't be the last), actually handed someone on our side of the barricades (in the metaphorical term) to the police. UAF should fuck off and leave the antifascism to those serious enough to do it. Paper sales, membership and debit card details is all they care about.

[bcbm]

As I screamed at them they attempted to justify their actions and from what I can gather they basically don't like anarchists and thought we were responsible for the kicking that was given to some stray EDL member who somehow got into the UAF demo.

sounds like the steward needed a good kicking as well.

[Melbourne Lefty]

From BBC news reports there was about 900 EDL and about 1500 anti-fascists.

if this is true, here is the evaluation

1. Damn good showing by the left forces

2. sadly also a damn good showing by the EDL. Also while they are not invincible, they are almost totally made up of young working class males, which means if the police had not been there....:( It would have been a bit of a toss up as to who would have won. At best.

3. The EDL has shown they can get numbers out on the streets in the North of England, thankfully the left can as well and we outnumbered the islamaphobic pricks, the left can also get numbers anywhere in the UK, whereas the EDL cannot it seems.

4. the UAF have proven yet again that they are soft as shite control freaks. Sorry no apologies, its simply too many times now.

Conclusion? The fight will go on, the EDL looks like it will continue until it fizzles out. My best bet is that if the militant anti-racist actions continue it will contain the EDL until it loses its momentum.

Overall a narrow positive result.

[Fidel Follower]

I think TRS is definately got some good points, the UAF seem to be nothing but an unhelpful facade for real anti-fascism. Lately there's been a lot of tention between different factions of anti-fascism and i hope something productive comes out of it.
I'm willing to put my effort into a new forward thinking anti-fascist group.

But that's a bit off topic, well done to all those true protesters that went to stand up against the EDL and NOT grass in our OWN people.

[ls]

Their stewards are at every demo, pushing back alongside the police, grassing up antifascist 'troublemakers' to the police and in this instance (and I'm sure it won't be the last), actually handed someone on our side of the barricades (in the metaphorical term) to the police. UAF should fuck off and leave the antifascism to those serious enough to do it. Paper sales, membership and debit card details is all they care about.

I know that, but they aren't usually cooperative with the police quite like this. At least not that I've heard about. It's nothing short of disgusting and it's anti-left.

Most people on this thread seem to agree the UAF have gone too far this time, it seems to be a truth unfortunately, I just hope some of the better people in the SWP will join or form a new real antifascist group.

[Anton]

I was quite impressed however, by the effort made by a considerable section of the protest, despite what the SWP/UAF leaders were telling them to break through and attempt to head towards the EDL demo. The autonomous thinking required to do that is respectable.
also, here'a a vid of EDL chanting what sounds like "Adolph Hitler English" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITDiGINtc1w&feature=sub

[Pogue]

More the reason why we need to sort out anti-fascism in this country.

[Bitter Ashes]

I withnessed the AFed member bieng handed over to the police and know him personaly. It was all totaly unprovoked and the SWP claimed that they had done it not because of his actions, but because they disagreed with his ideoligy. I've got a full report of what I saw throughout the day on my blog.

Oh and apparantly there's a new public order offence; "Eating sandwiches with intent to cause riot". Another good one was that I had my placard confiscated about the same time that somebody let off that flare. It was just a piece of carboard taped onto an old dry rotton piece of wood I found (would have been impossible to do damage with that bit of wood, which is why I chose it). What was the offensive message on it? It was a crossed out swastika with the words "The EDL are bigots" underneath. I'll have to be careful in future, I might have offended some Nazis with that...

[Steveo78]

It was practically pointless and UAF are a fucking disgrace. An AF member, and someone known to the police in Leeds, got outside the cordon and when he attempted to get back over to avoid the police a UAF steward grabbed him stopping him from getting over and then literally handed him to the approaching police.

As I screamed at them they attempted to justify their actions and from what I can gather they basically don't like anarchists and thought we were responsible for the kicking that was given to some stray EDL member who somehow got into the UAF demo. Ironically it was started by two SWP members, we had nothing to do with it. Not that we wouldn't have. It was blind prejudice towards someone who looked like an anarchist essentially.

This is not to mention that the EDL were able to hold their rally without any physical resistance. Obviously it was almost impossible to get to them because of the police. The 150 actual anti-fascist activists who managed to break out of the UAF cordon and try and get to them were unsuccessful and we were badly organised and it resulted in a scuffle with the police, but at least we fucking tried instead of standing around waiting for Weyman Bennett to come and speak.

I'm sure UAF managed to get a lot of publicity out of it.

I, for one, am quite glad those 150 didn't get near. There would only have been one winner if they did.

It's a shame but I think we all know it.

Any comrades have any ideas what to do to beat these far right skinheads?

[Pogue]

I, for one, am quite glad those 150 didn't get near. There would only have been one winner if they did.

It's a shame but I think we all know it.

Any comrades have any ideas what to do to beat these far right skinheads?

punch yourself in the face you freak, that'd help, cya on the streets!

[Steveo78]

I was quite impressed however, by the effort made by a considerable section of the protest, despite what the SWP/UAF leaders were telling them to break through and attempt to head towards the EDL demo. The autonomous thinking required to do that is respectable.
also, here'a a vid of EDL chanting what sounds like "Adolph Hitler English"

Lol i think something is wrong with your hearing comrade.

They're singing "hands up if you're English"

Obviously, this is just as bad. Patriotism sucks.

[Ravachol]

I'm undecided as to whether this EDL troll is amusing or frustrating.
Better to ban them though, no need to get 'trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls' 4chan-like situations here.

[Bitter Ashes]

Lol i think something is wrong with your hearing comrade.

They're singing "hands up if you're English"

Obviously, this is just as bad. Patriotism sucks.
They change thier chanting near the end of the video if it's the one I think it is

[AlMack]

I withnessed the AFed member bieng handed over to the police and know him personaly. It was all totaly unprovoked and the SWP claimed that they had done it not because of his actions, but because they disagreed with his ideoligy.

happened to my celtic anarchist pals in manchester too
its gonna get to the point where ppl start seeing uaf as not just misguided and detrimental to antifascism, but actual enemies

[nuisance]

its gonna get to the point where ppl start seeing uaf as not just misguided and detrimental to antifascism, but actual enemies
Would you not see this as a positive outcome?

[Ravachol]

Would you not see this as a positive outcome?

No, because it would divert attention from bashing the real fash.
What you want is UAF to wither away and move their activists (at least, those genuinly in it for antifascism an not just the selling of some bloody newspaper) towards militant, real antifascism.

You don't want to start in-fighting, honestly, the situation in the UK, at least as I see it from mainland Europe, is worse enough.

[Bitter Ashes]

I'm suprised AFed has not published a statement yet about the incident.

[Die Rote Fahne]

Whence I can get to Britain, maybe 5 years from now, I'll hit up as many rallies as possible if this shit is still goin down.

I get no action here in rural canada.

[Bitter Ashes]

your father's a test tube and your mother is senile.
Do not feed the troll. He'll be gone soon :P

[puke on cops]

I'll suggest to the rest of Leeds and Sheffield AFers that we do a statement. Shall I publish it here?

Also, reasons why infighting would be a positive thing in this case:

UAF gets support from the Lib Dems and David Cameron as well as telling everyone to vote for New Labour.

UAF knows fully well that capitalism creates fascism, and does the above anyway.

UAF collaborates with the police to get active militant anti-fascists arrested for *shock horror* attacking a violent EDL supporter.

UAF has REALLY shit watered-down Trotskyist-via-liberal appeal politics.

UAF stewards are macho apes who throw punches at the good Trots for the crime of heckling Weyman Bennet.

UAF unites with the Muslim Association of Britain... lets just forget the working class, laid back liberal non-anti-semetic muslims out there, lets talk to the rabid mullah in the corner.

Weyman Bennet. Nuff said.

[Rory]

UAF stewards are macho apes who throw punches at the good Trots for the crime of heckling Weyman Bennet.

What?

[Wanted Man]

It was practically pointless and UAF are a fucking disgrace. An AF member, and someone known to the police in Leeds, got outside the cordon and when he attempted to get back over to avoid the police a UAF steward grabbed him stopping him from getting over and then literally handed him to the approaching police.

As I screamed at them they attempted to justify their actions and from what I can gather they basically don't like anarchists and thought we were responsible for the kicking that was given to some stray EDL member who somehow got into the UAF demo. Ironically it was started by two SWP members, we had nothing to do with it. Not that we wouldn't have. It was blind prejudice towards someone who looked like an anarchist essentially.

Funny, normally threads like this would be crawling with SWP members trying to justify, downplay, deny, or spin the story.

Anyway, I was wondering a bit about the EDL "phenomenon". They've only existed for a few months, but are already drawing hundreds of people in several cities. What do British comrades think of their origins, and the causes of their growth? There is a strong far-right with vocal supporters here as well, but they are almost never willing to march on the streets against Islam or whatever. It seems to differ between several western-European countries.

[h0m0revolutionary]

What do British comrades think of their origins, and the causes of their growth? There is a strong far-right with vocal supporters here as well, but they are almost never willing to march on the streets against Islam or whatever. It seems to differ between several western-European countries.

There are a few theories going around.

You might remmeber their first action in Lutton, where they went unopposed, attracted around 300 people and attacked local asian businesses.

Now im not one to indulge in conspiracy theory, but to get a 300 strong mobilisation, without much attention beforehand and little publicity, is a bit of an achievement. So it's quite plausible they are state funded (as searchlight - of all people - alledge). However what have the state to gain by doing this?

- Firstly they can utilise the network EDL create to split the far-right and by making EDL explicity anti-BNP, they can detract BNP support. (The wider picture is that BNP are projected to win their first seat in Barking at the next general election - the tensions this would cause is clear)
- Secondly the government can popularise (as if it's needed) anti-immigration sentiment, making their planned immigration reforms go through Parliament with mimimal objection.
- Thirdly, we know as leftists what the state seek to gain from patriotism and nationalism. A group fermenting British patriotism can only seek to strengthen the state and the capitalist class.
- And finally, it serves as a nice distraction, to allow to state to introduce number of hideous initiatives without much contention. Chiefly is the Welfare Reform Bill which would see the privitisation of Job Centre Plus as well as a limit on how long one can be on benefits for(!!). And of course ti is a nice diversion away from the failings of the imperialists in Afghanistan.

But that's an unfounded allegation. Equally as plausible is that, contreary to what we might like to think, we live in a very right wing country, where blurring the line between islamic and ethnic people for political gain can mobilise many people.

Sadly, I think it's the latter.
Of course this doesn't happen in isolation, the media and government have more than played their part in whipping up hysteria about immigration. But the fact remains, many ordiniary working class people and uncomfortable about immigration and we, the revolutionary left, are loosing that argument.

[Wanted Man]

Thanks for the info. Surely there is also some degree of astroturfing? I.e. the need to bus/train in sympathisers to reach a more impressive number? Or do they really mobilise hundreds among football fans in any city, no matter if it's in an English town or in Scotland or Wales?

[h0m0revolutionary]

Thanks for the info. Surely there is also some degree of astroturfing? I.e. the need to bus/train in sympathisers to reach a more impressive number? Or do they really mobilise hundreds among football fans in any city, no matter if it's in an English town or in Scotland or Wales?

They have certainly bussed people over. Especially in Leeds and Manchester.

but they didn't in Lutton as far as I know, nor Birmingham. I tinhk even without bussing people over they can mobilse pretty well.

The left can always do better and there are certainly parts of the country that are out of bounds, so to speak, for groups like the EDL. But the fact that liberals, UAF and their ilk can mobilse better than racists like the EDL is no consolation at all.

[Melbourne Lefty]

But the fact that liberals, UAF and their ilk can mobilse better than racists like the EDL is no consolation at all.


I dunno, I kinda feel consoled by that!:)

[welshboy]

Funny, normally threads like this would be crawling with SWP members trying to justify, downplay, deny, or spin the story.
Aye that is very true, wonder where they're at?

[welshboy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0wHtDXDCjw
:D

[Radical]

The UAF is full of Social-Democrats and Revisionists. They should be focusing on the people who are in power, instead of the EDL and BNP in my opinion. I'm not against the resistance to Fascism of course, I just think they could be doing something much more productive.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

The UAF is full of Social-Democrats and Revisionists. They should be focusing on the people who are in power, instead of the EDL and BNP in my opinion. I'm not against the resistance to Fascism of course, I just think they could be doing something much more productive.

So we should just allow these groups to go around inciting messages of hatred unchallenged and in most cases use violence against members of our communities? Anti-fascism is inextricably linked to revolutionary leftism. We must challenge fascism at every corner and eradicate those organisations masquerading as ones who represent our class.

[Steve_j]

The UAF is full of Social-Democrats and Revisionists. They should be focusing on the people who are in power


I just think they could be doing something much more productive.

Radcial? A reformist all of a sudden?

[Radical]

So we should just allow these groups to go around inciting messages of hatred unchallenged and in most cases use violence against members of our communities? Anti-fascism is inextricably linked to revolutionary leftism. We must challenge fascism at every corner and eradicate those organisations masquerading as ones who represent our class.

Disabling a government that has caused the deaths of over 1 million innocent Iraqi civilians is far more important than protesting with revisionists against the BNP and EDL.

The Labour Party are in power NOW, KILLING INNOCENT people, occupying OTHER countries and pursuing racist policies against minoritys across the ENTIRE COUNTRY

[Bitter Ashes]

As much as I feel uncomfortable with the UAF/SWP, I wouldnt call them revisionists. I think you're confusing them with Searchlight, Hope not Hate, etc. The SWP/UAF are highly authoritarian and vanguardist. By the sounds of things, you'd love them.

In the meantime, the working class needs some victories from organising themselves against things which they despise. Today it's fascism, tommorow it's capitalism.

[Radical]

As much as I feel uncomfortable with the UAF/SWP, I wouldnt call them revisionists. I think you're confusing them with Searchlight, Hope not Hate, etc. The SWP/UAF are highly authoritarian and vanguardist. By the sounds of things, you'd love them.

In the meantime, the working class needs some victories from organising themselves against things which they despise. Today it's fascism, tommorow it's capitalism.

Are you kidding me? The SWP are the most revisionist so-called Communist party in the whole of the UK.

They help and support Social-Democrats who Lenin defined as an ultimate enemy we should pose a ruthless struggle against.

We see clear revisionism when they side with Social-Democrats(who support the Labour Party). The Labour Party are just as evil and wicked(if not more) than the BNP. They hold the deaths of over a million civilians and have ALWAYS acted in the interests of the ruling elite.

The Labour Party and ALL Social-Democrats are ALL TRUE Communists ENEMIES. - As Lenin said

I fucking hate people who say to people "If you're going to vote for somebody between the Tories, Liberals and Labour, Vote Labour". - Fucking traitors diverting peoples attention from Communism to disgusting Capitalism.

[Bitter Ashes]

I misread what you said. I thought you said reformist, instead of revisionist. My bad, although it is worth pointing out that there's plenty of worse examples. David Blunkett and Allister Darling spring to mind immeditaly.

Anyway, I'm not fond of any policies of any of the parties tbh. Revolution now, argueing can wait.