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View Full Version : What can we do when the police arrest someone for doing what they told them to do?



Ephydriad
31st October 2009, 14:21
This is a story two of my friends personally witnessed occur at University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. The story is kind of long, so if it's too early for you I'll highlight the important parts. :)

"Tonight I was granted a rare look at the justice provided by our local police department. My friend and I were on Oregon, east of Spurlock Museum, just past Lincoln. We were waiting on the sidewalk outside a private dorm for a key so we could go back to Allen Hall. It was particularly chilly and as we huddle for warmth I noticed that there were a number of policemen about. Not in cars, but standing in the driveway area of the dorm. This didn’t really surprise me. It’s the night before Halloween, everyone around us was in costume and likely more than a little intoxicated. I figured some poor drunk kid happened to find himself face to face with a group or officers or maybe someone had called the fuzz in on a party in the dorm. Either way, I wasn’t going to bother them. I don’t fuck with police officers.

A group of two girls and a guy walked by, one the girls was holding a medium coke from someone restaurant or another. This, apparently, is probable cause for search the girl. Two officers came over and asked her what was in the cup. She said it was a coke. I figured that it wasn’t just a coke, but I wasn’t going to say anything. She was convincing, not giving any indication that she was lying. She looked the cops in the eye and did not stutter. I say this to show that she gave no probable cause. The policewoman took the drink, opened the lid, smelled and asked the girl if she had ID and if she could step over toward the sidewalk.

I turned to her friends, concerned. Don’t worry, she is 21 they say, just as the officers inform her they are writing her a ticket for open alcohol (technically the cup was covered with a lid, but I assume that law applies to seal products). I told the other two that I didn’t feel comfortable with what was happening and we began to discuss what might define probably cause.

A few feet away another student was arguing with the officers. He had shouted at one of his friends that they should get out of there. The officers just happened to between him and his friends. The officers began shouting at him back, telling him to get off the property. Being a little intoxicated, he not so politely informed the officers that he was on the sidewalk not private property, but the officers shot back that he is blocking the sidewalk and that is a violation. Our group of four all looked at each other.

Between the four of us, the sidewalk was more than blocked side to side yet we got no guff. This lone student was hardly taking up half the sidewalk and they were threatening to write him up. He got the message and left. He was lucky.

At some point, a guy in a cow suit who had been watching joined our circle of police watchers (I wish I had a cooler name than that). He was very upset with the whole situation, we all were. He said something about a police state. I don’t think he really meant it, but we all felt what he meant. He began to ask the police officers if they had probable cause. At first they didn’t hear him. I told him to stop. There was nothing he could do. I have dealt with police officers before and you don’t win. They are the law and are above the law. Their word always goes. I felt the same agitation he did, knew that path was trouble. He didn’t listen to me.

He engaged one of the officers in a discussion of probable cause, a discussion going no where. The policewoman asked him to step of the private property and he moved to the sidewalk. Once he moved to the sidewalk she told him to leave. Apparently, as long as police are on private property, they don’t have to justify or explain themselves because there is no where you can legally stand to hold a conversation. The noble man in cow suit refused to give up ground, so the officer approached him and told him to leave, and he backed away into the street (it is wise to give ground to police officers). She continued to tell him to go and he said no and continued to ask for a justification for probable cause.

She threatened to arrest him and he refused. “What are you going to arrest me for?”
And that’s when she reached for his arm to turn him around. Fine fine! He says as he turns to leave. But she isn’t done with him, she continues to try to grab him “Are you serious? Are you seriously arresting me!? For what?” She tells him that standing in and using the street as a walkway is illegal. A fact not previously mention in the conversation (if you can call it that). He continues to back away, saying he’ll leave. Another cop comes running in, and he gives up when they both grab him. As the cops put the cuffs on cow guy he pleads I can’t believe this is happening while the cops compulsively shout “Stop resisting arrest” at the now docile cow.

I am now in a state of shock. My body shakes and shivers, mainly from the cold, but also mainly from the disgust at what I am seeing unfold in front of me. The police inform cow man that he will be going to jail. This was unbelievable. A man in a cow suit just got run into the street by an officer, and then got arrested for standing in the street. What the fuck is going on? Who the fuck does these people think they are? She RAN HIM INTO THE STREET and then ARRESTED HIM FOR BEING THERE. That is like literally putting drugs in someone’s pocket and then finding those drugs two seconds later and throwing them in jail. It’s like entrapment. I don’t even remember if he was read his Miranda rights.

I do the only thing I can. I sit and watch. I feel that is all I can do. I hope cow guy takes some comfort in knowing that I am there and I am watching. I think about my options. Clearly any discussion with these officers is out of the question; I don’t want to end up next to the cow guy in the squad car. So I do the only thing I can. I ask the officers for their names, which they grudgingly give me (I don’t know the law but I think they have to answer that question). Not having pen or paper, I ask them to state it again and they give me two numbers: 342 and 328. I don’t know which is which. I do know that the Urbana police department will be getting a call in the morning.

What happened to being civil servants? What happened to defending the people not harassing the people? How many crimes that actually harmed others went unpunished that night? Instead the cops are too worried about their own damn egos to give a shit about their real job. A police officer should not be looking for a reason to arrest someone, but I get the feeling that arresting someone is exactly what those officers were trying to do that night. Their role is to enforce laws with wisdom not hubris, concern not wrath. I did not get cow guys name, but I wish he did. He stood up for justice, for knowledge, for his fellow human being, and never for one minute stepped out of his rights. He is in jail now.

This is the mission statement of Urbana police:
To protect life, property and the constitutional rights of all citizens within our jurisdiction; to serve our citizens by enforcing the law, preserving the peace, and reducing the fear of crime; to help create a safer environment in which to live, work and recreate through problem solving and collaboration with our citizens; to continually strive for excellence in the performance of our duty through education and training.

I don't see arresting harmless people in cow suits above. I feel angry, upset and sort of powerless. But all I can do is spread the story. Thanks for reading."

What is to be done?

Holden Caulfield
31st October 2009, 14:47
I have no idea where this belongs but it doesn't belong here I don't think.
moved to politics :confused:

Kukulofori
31st October 2009, 15:25
Sounds like there were six of you, one of him.

Just throwing that out there.

Ephydriad
31st October 2009, 15:35
Mod -- yeah I didn't really know where to put it :blink:

And Kuku... what are you implying? :mellow:

Dimentio
31st October 2009, 15:43
The best thing to do is to use your cellphone cameras or digital cameras to film the whole thing.

Psy
31st October 2009, 15:51
Sounds like there were six of you, one of him.

Just throwing that out there.

Seems like two police officers but you really don't want push police around unless you have army sized crowd behind you that are willing to also rush the police.

Spirit of Spartacus
31st October 2009, 16:40
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it probably is a duck.
If it walks like a cop and talks like a cop, it probably is a pig.

Muzk
31st October 2009, 16:54
who said america aint fascist?? oh right, zionists


gotta edit this.. why do i always join the gang of one-liners?

Demogorgon
31st October 2009, 17:13
If something like that happens in America, try contacting the ACLU.

KC
31st October 2009, 17:55
Get witnesses, invoke your Fifth Amendment right if he starts trying to ask you questions (the only information you are required to provide to the police is identification) and invoke your Fourth Amendment right if he attempts to search you without a warrant (they are allowed to search you with probable cause but even if they have this make it very well known that you are not consenting to it). If they take anything from you they are required to provide you with an evidence receipt; if they do not give this to you then you are eligible to file suit against them later. Get their name and badge number, as well.

Then shut up and do what they say.

EDIT: In this specific situation you can't really do anything except get witness names and hopefully film the incident. The reality is that cops can find something you arrest you for no matter what you're doing, so it's pointless to argue with them. Anything you do or say to cops will only be used against you later. Also, if the arresting officer doesn't read you your Miranda rights then the case will de facto be tossed, so in that case do not say anything to the officer, go with them to the police station and say nothing then when your case comes up you bring this fact up.

You could also file a complaint against the officer but we all know where this goes.

Ephydriad
1st November 2009, 07:13
News:

He was in fact NOT read his Miranda rights.

Sigh...

chegitz guevara
1st November 2009, 16:45
They don't have to Mirandize right away.

In situations like this, the best thing to do is record the actions of the police . . . surreptitiously if possible. If they notice you, they will try and confiscate and destroy your phone and arrest you for interfering with police business.

The other thing to do is try and get the arrestee's name, so you can act as a witness on their behalf.

Psy
1st November 2009, 23:56
They don't have to Mirandize right away.

In situations like this, the best thing to do is record the actions of the police . . . surreptitiously if possible. If they notice you, they will try and confiscate and destroy your phone and arrest you for interfering with police business.

The other thing to do is try and get the arrestee's name, so you can act as a witness on their behalf.

Well its depending if you can escalate it to your advantage police will retreat once they realize they are totally outnumbers (that is if you can greatly outnumber them). So getting messengers to gather the community doesn't hurt as if the crowd gets large enough the police will simply retreat, it also adds more witnesses and more cameras (for example if you have 100 onlooker with cameras two officers would have no hope of confiscating all of them).

Uncle Ho
2nd November 2009, 00:05
Well, you could try fighting, but that might invoke real change in the system, and we can't have that, now can we?

Psy
2nd November 2009, 00:19
Well, you could try fighting, but that might invoke real change in the system, and we can't have that, now can we?

Bad idea without a revolutionary army of some kind behind you as the police will counter-attack.

chegitz guevara
2nd November 2009, 02:57
Well, you could try fighting, but that might invoke real change in the system, and we can't have that, now can we?

I don't know how many times you've fought the police. My guess is probably close to zero. I have. Twice. It's not something you should so blithely accuse people of being afraid of. Only irresponsible people and provocateurs advocate physically fighting the cops, unless there's no other way.

Cops have guns, radios, and patience. You may escape today, but they'll get you later, and when you're alone. The level of resistance any person shows to the police is a personal decision, because they are the ones who have to pay, either with jail/prison time, pain, or death. Maybe an innocent bystander will pay. Probably not you.

I've known people to be beaten by the police. In Chicago, we had a police unit that tortured suspects (with electricity, plastic bags, simulated executions, and heaters). When you engage with the state, you must do so intelligently, not with your testicles doing your thinking.

Uncle Ho
2nd November 2009, 03:09
I don't know how many times you've fought the police. My guess is probably close to zero. I have. Twice. It's not something you should so blithely accuse people of being afraid of. Only irresponsible people and provocateurs advocate physically fighting the cops, unless there's no other way.

Cops have guns, radios, and patience. You may escape today, but they'll get you later, and when you're alone. The level of resistance any person shows to the police is a personal decision, because they are the ones who have to pay, either with jail/prison time, pain, or death. Maybe an innocent bystander will pay. Probably not you.

I've known people to be beaten by the police. In Chicago, we had a police unit that tortured suspects (with electricity, plastic bags, simulated executions, and heaters). When you engage with the state, you must do so intelligently, not with your testicles doing your thinking.


I've fought the police so many times I can't even leave the country anymore. I lost count of the number of times I was arrested about 10 years ago, and I've never gone quietly.

Right now I'm recovering from a badly sprained ankle from a clash with the police. He got my ankle, but we forced them to run scared.

I have guns, radios and patience, too, and the greatest failing of the left today is that you do not.

Psy
2nd November 2009, 03:51
Cops have guns, radios, and patience. You may escape today, but they'll get you later, and when you're alone.

In non revolutionary situations yes but police rarely are able to pick of individuals when the protesters are army in their own right, at that point police are too busy trying hold their lines. At that point you don't have to escape you just have to at least beat the police badly enough they can't round anyone up and hopefully the protesters are able to totally repel the police (have been done many time in large uprisings). Their guns, radio and patience is worth nothing when they are dealing with the beginnings of a revolutionary army that greatly outnumber them.

Of course that is in a revolutionary situation not a normal encounter with police, just pointing there has been times where police have gotten their asses handed to them the proletariat.

Kukulofori
2nd November 2009, 08:01
You don't need an army. You need enough people to bash the cop over the head with something hard enough that you can distract him and the victim can get away.

This isn't a game. It's a battle against an oppressive police state, and it can't be won unless you fight.

ls
2nd November 2009, 10:03
It depends how confident the cops feel really, they are just bullies, this has been pointed out so many times before.

The fact there were more of you than them doesn't mean you need to physically attack them, but if you stand together and told them to affirmatively what KC said:


..invoke your Fifth Amendment right if he starts trying to ask you questions (the only information you are required to provide to the police is identification) and invoke your Fourth Amendment right if he attempts to search you without a warrant (they are allowed to search you with probable cause but even if they have this make it very well known that you are not consenting to it). If they take anything from you they are required to provide you with an evidence receipt; if they do not give this to you then you are eligible to file suit against them later. Get their name and badge number, as well.

they might've bogged off and tried to harrass another group of kids.

Sometimes direct action against police does work as well, in the end of the day, if you force police to leave a small secluded area where they did not properly see anyone's face or who was doing what (such as if so many people were throwing things at them that they couldn't work out who was doing what) then yeah, you are going to come out tops.

GatesofLenin
5th November 2009, 06:50
You can use the system to "re-educate" the police officers that they work for us, not the other way around. I had a run-in with a traffic cop recently, my brother was with me. We're waiting in the left turn lane waiting for our left-turn arrow. Once it comes on, the car in front of us stays put, so we honk slightly to wake the driver up. The car starts to roll and half-way through the intersection, the car suddenly STOPS! We behind the car and are like "WTH are u doing, get going, the light will change and we'll be stuck in the center of the intersection". So we honk again and the front car finally moves again and would you know it, red-white-blue lights light behind us and we pull to the side of the road after clearing the intersection. So the officer walks up and says what we did was illegal. My brother and I tell otherwise, the car in front of us committed an infraction by not clearing the intersection is a safe and timely manner. The cop says we're in trouble and will have a ton of tickets written tonight such as: unnecessary honking (we asked the cop what he would do if the car in front suddenly stops and went move?), aggressive driving (again we asked what we did aggressively wrong and he didn't tell us) and other tickets. My brother and I just looked at each other and told the cop plain out that we will fight all the tickets in court. The cop was not amused, look around our truck and went back to his squad car and returned shortly back to tell us to have a great night and to drive safely. My brother and I let the moron return to his car and drive away, we laughed all the way home.
Know your rights and don't let the police intimidate you. Know your laws and you can fight them smartly.

egonemo
25th November 2009, 06:07
sorry,i know this is an old thread.
i was just watching a video on how this type of bs is going on all around the country.largest street gang in america.i'ld put a link but i don't know if it's allowed.any way,i was physically nauseous after watching.there is no way to beat them in arm's at this point anyway.even if you beat the police they just send in bigger dogs,national guard,yada.
this is my first time here but i think i like the way the people think.

MarxSchmarx
25th November 2009, 06:56
This is the mission statement of Urbana police:
To protect life, property and the constitutional rights of all citizens within our jurisdiction; to serve our citizens by enforcing the law, preserving the peace, and reducing the fear of crime; to help create a safer environment in which to live, work and recreate through problem solving and collaboration with our citizens; to continually strive for excellence in the performance of our duty through education and training.

I don't see arresting harmless people in cow suits above. I feel angry, upset and sort of powerless. But all I can do is spread the story. Thanks for reading."Ridiculously, in many jurisdictions loitering on the sidewalk is actually a criminal offense :blink:

http://www.nationalhomeless.org/publications/crimreport/casesummaries_3.html

The point is that no matter how much you might appeal to your bourgeois rights and the rule of law and whatnot against the cops, odds are that in the boundless law libraries they probably have some technicality on their side to screw you over.

Bloody Kalashnikov
26th November 2009, 17:09
You can arm yourself and the revolution