Is the BNP a threat?

[*Viva La Revolucion*]

And why?

I feel I can say with confidence that they'll never get into power, no matter how much support they gain. If they're not in power then they can't act on their racist policies (*fantasies), and we'll never have to live in the 'white Britain' that they envisage. I've heard so many times that they're dangerous, but why?

[Sean]

Its not a matter of getting into power, you don't need first passed the post to seriously affect political discourse. The BNP are a particular threat not because of their political clout, but rather the way they mask their racism as the voice of the people.

[Il Medico]

From what I've read they seem to have similar positions as the Nazis in Germany (i.e claiming that they are a party for the people and using populist messages to cover up their racism, as well as scapegoating minorities. While I don't think Britain is going to fall to the BNP, it is worth pointing out that the Nazi party didn't have a majority when they took power (They held like 30% of the vote or something). They (fascist) also have a lot of appeal in times of economic crisis.

Also, the BNP has two seats in the european congress, no? Well that alone makes them a lot more powerful any facist group here in the states. I think are certianly a threat and British comrades should do all they can to keep the BNP from gaining any real power.

[Enirehtac]

Hey, I've just joined this forum and this is my first post. Hi everyone! lol

Anyway, I'm sure you all know that quite a while ago Nick Griffin claimed that Hitler's Mein Kampf was his 'bible'. I'm currently studying German politics and the rise of the Nazi Party and all i can ask is, is anyone else sensing a sort of de-ja-vu with the BNP party and their rise? I am and thats maybe why people think that they are a dangerous group. We all know what happened when the Nazis came to power and I agree, they were the biggest party in government but still only had 37.7% of the vote when they came into power.

[El Rojo]

The BNP are a threat on a number of levels.

I'd say that at the moment, it is beyond reasonable doubt that the BNP will get in power, although I certainly wouldn't rule it out entierly. The Nazis started out as a handful of mittelstanders in Munich who kept thier party funds in a cigar box. But they got bigger and bigger by scapegoating minorities, sprouting patriotic garbage about how thier country used to be "great" and criticising the political mainstream as corrupt. (sound familiar?) However, i take comfort from the fact that the BNP are generally hated, whereas there was no history of ethnic tolerance or liberal "democracy" in Germany that made people wary of the Nazis.

However, as Sean said, they can still affect the political discourse, and make racist bile seem acceptable, and further alienate muslims. Even as a minority, they still have access to the media, therefore everyone. Im reckon more people know of the BNP than the SWP, SP ect ect.

Also, there has been a marked increase of race-based attacks in recent years. There is strong evidence for a corolation between race-based attacks and BNP regional sucess. Im sure the 17 year old muslim girl who nearly lost her eye when attacked by a BNP member would consider them a threat.

[Holden Caulfield]

Stop saying the word Nazi everybody.

Anyhoo:
The BNP are a threat as their very existance and past and future growth is directly to the detriment of the working class, the labour movement and of the left in general.

they sow the seeds of division in communities we seek to unite, they give false consciousness to disillusioned members of our class. Instead of turns to the left when people abandon labour they are often moving to the right.

Bourgeois politicians will rely on the support of the far right to push through opressive and racist policies. The NF dissolved as they all supported the **** that is Thatcher, the BNP called for the army to crush strkes and Maggie used the coppers to much the same effect

i don't think they will get into power any time soon. Each progression they make: council seats, MEPs, BBC air time and possibly 3 future MPs (barnsely, stoke, etc) is not something we should say is cause of their growth, they are symptoms of the illness rooted in some sections of society.

They are not the nazi's they are the BNP, the Nazi's were co-opted into power by the state to crush dissent and revolution, the BNP will not be co-opted into power anytime soon as the left in this country is, at the moment, weak.

Although to stregthen it we must fight the BNP (et al)

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Yes they are a threat. As long as reactionary groups claim to represent our class and garner support from our class then they will be a threat to the emancipation of our class.

[Melbourne Lefty]

They will never gain power.

Probably never get a council at that.

But they can change the way of thinking and identity for thousands of white working class British people from "I am working class" to the much less contructive "I am white british".

Considering that those people are the ones the left should be recruiting, in the neighbourhoods hardest hit by the evils of capitalism, this is worrying.

The BNP could die out in 3 years, the damage it has done, and will continue to do as long as it exists in the public mind, may well last for decades.

[Holden Caulfield]

You're right on you main point but I think they could well get a council and maybe even 3 MPs in the general elections. Im not saying they will get them, I'm saying they would be in contention for them.

Them winning 3 seats wont change the world but it will be a measuring post to show how far they have come along.

[Pogue]

They are a threat in that the more support they get the more they divide working class areas.

Its not so much that the handful of people that make up the BNP (10,000?) are a threat as such. I don't think its likely that they will ever grow a alrge amount but the problem is even a small group of people can kick up a fuss. They can go to an area and try and flare up ethnic tensions which can have long lasting implications for the working class.

They are especially dangerous in the current climate in which there is an absence of a working class organisation promoting working class politics and solutions tot he problems working class people experience. They are effectively filling a vacuum which gives them potential for growth. As long as we fail to combat them then they will remain a threat.

[Solidair]

My first post. I suspect all you rough tongued hard men will be calling me all sorts of awful things before too long.

[QUOTE=Holden Caulfield;1582884]Stop saying the word Nazi everybody.

Why? They love Hitler, deny the Holocaust and believe in the 'International Jewish Conspiricy'. That makes them Nazis.

I don't think there's a danger of them wielding any sort of power on the National or local scene anytime soon. But as someone here has already pointed out, there's a direct link between their electoral success in certain areas and a rise in reported race hate violence in those areas.
So yes, they are a danger because where they successfully mobilise, people get hurt because of their race.

[Holden Caulfield]

My first post. I suspect all you rough tongued hard men will be calling me all sorts of awful things before too long.
Lurcherman? Is that you? Say it aint so? Way to go signing me up to all that porn btw, its psychological warfare, seeing all them emails talking about how one needs to have a bigger penis really knock your confidence haha



Why? They love Hitler, deny the Holocaust and believe in the 'International Jewish Conspiricy'. That makes them Nazis.

I don't think there's a danger of them wielding any sort of power on the National or local scene anytime soon. But as someone here has already pointed out, there's a direct link between their electoral success in certain areas and a rise in reported race hate violence in those areas.
So yes, they are a danger because where they successfully mobilise, people get hurt because of their race.

A handfull of the leadership might think about Jewish conspiracy, but the majority of the party don't and anyways why would they even mentioning the Jews is, in Griffins own words, "political suicide". Jew hating will get them nowhere, and Fascism is an opportunist ideology.

You can call Nick an anti-semite all you want it makes him squirm, its fun, but it serves little purpose. Calling them names and 'exposing them as the nazis they are' as UAF aim to do is a failed tactic. The BNP voting people of the North West, of Stoke, of other places they have done well have had the UAF "nazis" propaganda for years now: Do you think these people are just more racist that others? Do you think perhaps they are just slow learners? Or is it a sign that the tactic doesn't work?

Your mostly right for the BNP/violence thing, but the party wll distance itself from this at all costs and when talking about it we must be clear with our analysis of current events not just talk about the 'bad old bays of BNP bootboys'.

As the BNP grows the left fails, as the BNP grows the class is divided, as the BNP grows the political mainstream compass moves towards the right. This is why they are a danger.

[*Viva La Revolucion*]

Thank you for the replies.

I recognise that the BNP divide the working class and that's probably the most harmful thing about them.

But I have to disagree about the link between their electoral success and violence towards minorities. It's cause and effect - surely the reason they had success in particular places in because there were more people who already had racist feelings? I think anyone who was going to attack someone on the basis of their race would do it regardless of whether the BNP existed.

[djm567]

Lurcherman? Is that you? Say it aint so? Way to go signing me up to all that porn btw, its psychological warfare, seeing all them emails talking about how one needs to have a bigger penis really knock your confidence haha




A handfull of the leadership might think about Jewish conspiracy, but the majority of the party don't and anyways why would they even mentioning the Jews is, in Griffins own words, "political suicide". Jew hating will get them nowhere, and Fascism is an opportunist ideology.

You can call Nick an anti-semite all you want it makes him squirm, its fun, but it serves little purpose. Calling them names and 'exposing them as the nazis they are' as UAF aim to do is a failed tactic. The BNP voting people of the North West, of Stoke, of other places they have done well have had the UAF "nazis" propaganda for years now: Do you think these people are just more racist that others? Do you think perhaps they are just slow learners? Or is it a sign that the tactic doesn't work?

Your mostly right for the BNP/violence thing, but the party wll distance itself from this at all costs and when talking about it we must be clear with our analysis of current events not just talk about the 'bad old bays of BNP bootboys'.

As the BNP grows the left fails, as the BNP grows the class is divided, as the BNP grows the political mainstream compass moves towards the right. This is why they are a danger.

I am Solidair, banned from here because Holden Caufield made the mistake of presuming that because I am interested in lurchers, I am someone he calls 'Lurcherman'.
For the record and before I am banned again; I am not Lurcherman and I have never been on these boards before joining as Soliair.
I am sorry that HC has some sort of problem with someone but it has nothing to do with me.
I may be new to the internet but I am not new to left politics or anti racist activism. After reading these boards for some time and learning much from the posts of the many, informed members. I also learned that some have egos they like to wank off on here, HC, seemingly is a prime example.

If it looks like a duck, quacks and craps duck shit, it's a duck. Griffin is a Nazi. Sorry you don't like me saying so, HC. The only reason I did is because it's the truth. You can deal with the truth, and for that matter, my account here however you choose. I'm going to find me a lurcher breeders forum where I can exchange views with actual working class people rather than some jumped up middle class student who's never had a job and doesn't have a good days work in him (her?) anyway. Revolutionary? Revofuckinlutionary?:laugh:

There's a space below this post for you to amaze everyone with your acid wit. Feel free but know that I wont be reading it.

[Holden Caulfield]

some jumped up middle class student who's never had a job and doesn't have a good days work in him


yep thats me...:closedeyes:
I don't care who you are, just carry on posting and get on with life.

EDIT:


I am not new to left politics or anti racist activism

Gimme a name (PM me), gimme a contact i know alot of people, if your right you're right, if your wrong then woo-hoo another interner douche who doesnt like me

[Radical]

Everybody party is a threat. They are not the main Party we should be attacking and protesting against.

We should be protesting against the racist, oppressive, imperialist government that is in power and exploiting the masses now. The Labour Party is occupying multiple countries and holds the deaths of over 1 million innocent people on their hands.

[welshboy]

it is worth pointing out that the Nazi party didn't have a majority when they took power
It's not really unless we all of a sudden change the electoral process we have in this country. In Germany they practised proportional representation which meant the Nazis didn't have to perform so well, which they didn't, to get a couple of seats. In the UK the system is first past the post which means that they would have to perform amazingly well to get anywhere.

[Melbourne Lefty]

It's not really unless we all of a sudden change the electoral process we have in this country. In Germany they practised proportional representation which meant the Nazis didn't have to perform so well, which they didn't, to get a couple of seats. In the UK the system is first past the post which means that they would have to perform amazingly well to get anywhere.

The system also excludes left wing voices, so at best its a mixed blessing.:mad:

[Holden Caulfield]

The system also excludes left wing voices, so at best its a mixed blessing.:mad:

It is a system used to maintain the status quo, but every election victory is a measuring stick to show their influence in the working class, and it is this that at this moment in time is the real danger for us

[Melbourne Lefty]

It is a system used to maintain the status quo, but every election victory is a measuring stick to show their influence in the working class, and it is this that at this moment in time is the real danger for us

Indeed.

Anyone who misunderstands the threat of the BNP, here it is...

1. Every time someone begins to identify themselves primarily with their ethnic over their class group, its a loss for left wing politics. Those people are hard to get back, and the bloody Daily Mail [despite their nice anti-BNP line] is not helping.

2. Every time the BNP get even 5 % of the vote it sends a msg to the pigs in the capitalist parties; that message goes something like this..



I can now use racist populist politics on immigration to boost my vote without being called racist by saying that it is 'combating the BNP' oh goody what a clever fellow I am!


This latter point is becoming increasingly clear in the run up to the general election.