Irish day of demonstration and strike

[Barry]

There is a day of protest on the 6th of november calle by the unions in protest of the governments mishandling of the government. This is a huge move for the unions who have as such been neglectful and too comprimising with regards to workers rights.
There is now a call for a public sector strike on the 24th in protests of the cuts to wages propossed by the government. However the leaderships of the trade unions in ireland have a history of calling such events off. I just want to see peoples opinions on will the unions actually go through with the public sector strikes.
Another small fact some people might be interested in is that the irish army has been in training to put down civil unrest etc. for the last 12months. I have heard this from family members of army members and some military personal themselves, and it is not a case of if but when. So it looks like there is worse to come and the need for organised workers struggles are going to become key in the next few weeks.

[PRC-UTE]

The Army said before they wouldn't be used to break strikes or demos, so we'll see. I can't recall if that was regular army who said that or Rangers.

[Hoggy_RS]

I heard recently of someone in the army reserves that special training had occurred in the Curragh, as the govt was worried about having to deal with escalating strikes/protests.

I'll be out in Cork on Friday anyways

[Andropov]

I cant see it caming from the Rangers.
And anyway their numbers would be far to small to break any mass strike.
If memory serves me correct it came from the Free State Army Representatives but it is actually not a Union.
It is forbidden to be a member of a Union or Party when in the Free State Army.

[Pogue]

How big a deal is this expected to be?

[Andropov]

How big a deal is this expected to be?
Its nothing in the current context of ICTU leadership which is overwhelmingly reformist.
As I siad here before its just a slightly more radical step in so as to appease an ever more radical and agitated grass roots.
A face saving excercise by the ICTU leadership to save their skin.
But I suppose the very fact that ICTU recognise the radicalisation of its membership is quite a significant leap and thus thats why ill be there at the march.

[Pogue]

Are we thinking this strike will be significant? I don't know fully the situation in Ireland, but even a tokenistic one day general strike would be quite a big deal over here.

[pastradamus]

There is a day of protest on the 6th of november calle by the unions in protest of the governments mishandling of the government. This is a huge move for the unions who have as such been neglectful and too comprimising with regards to workers rights.

Right on. Though I've been talking to some SIPTU reps and they assured me they're not going to the table about this one just yet. But Id trust them as far as I can throw them.


Another small fact some people might be interested in is that the irish army has been in training to put down civil unrest etc. for the last 12months. I have heard this from family members of army members and some military personal themselves, and it is not a case of if but when. So it looks like there is worse to come and the need for organised workers struggles are going to become key in the next few weeks.

I wouldnt worry about that too much. I mean its about as significant as the Police training for riots.

[BOZG]

There is a day of protest on the 6th of november calle by the unions in protest of the governments mishandling of the government. This is a huge move for the unions who have as such been neglectful and too comprimising with regards to workers rights.

In the eyes of the trade union leadership, the demo is nothing but a cynical exercise to put pressure on the state and the employers to return to Social Partnership. They haven't once opposed cuts, instead demanding that cuts are introduced over a phased basis. They're absolutely desperate to get back to negotiations because they've absolutely no confidence in workers or any sort of perspectives of how to struggle outside of partnership. That's why the likes of Horan were so vocal during Lisbon. They're clutching at straws for some sort of angle that they can use to reconstitute the negotiations. Begg will be knocking on the door of Leinster House come Monday morning. They're absolutely bankrupt and rotten to the core. Irish capitalism is so bankrupt that it can't even offer the crumbs of Partnership and they'll run into a brickwall. There's a danger though that this could take on a life of its own, outside their control and open up a can of worms. A new chapter is opening.


The Army said before they wouldn't be used to break strikes or demos, so we'll see. I can't recall if that was regular army who said that or Rangers.

It was PDForra which represents the lower ranks of the Defense Forces. They didn't actually say that they wouldn't be used, they said that they were making it clear to the Minister that they are opposed to being used which is slightly different. As you said, we'll see. The fact that they've disobeyed the commands of the Minister not to get invovled with the 24/7 Frontline Services group is significant though. It certainly makes their previous statement seem a little more concrete anyway.

Despite the growing involvement of the Defence Forces abroad, it wasn't too long ago that the Army and particularly the Reserves were seen as a handy job, where you were guaranteed 3 square meals, clean clothes and a few quid at the end of the week and the chances of you being used either abroad or at home were slim. I don't think that attitude is gone yet. Any attempts to use the army against strikes would certainly provoke a reaction amongst the rank-and-file. Whether they follow through on that reaction is another thing.



Another small fact some people might be interested in is that the irish army has been in training to put down civil unrest etc. for the last 12months. I have heard this from family members of army members and some military personal themselves, and it is not a case of if but when. So it looks like there is worse to come and the need for organised workers struggles are going to become key in the next few weeks.

As far as I'm aware, they've been training them in these tactics for quite a while though maybe the training has been a bit more intense in recent times. And from the perspective of the state, so it should be. War looms.

[BOZG]

[quote=Pogue]Are we thinking this strike will be significant? I don't know fully the situation in Ireland, but even a tokenistic one day general strike would be quite a big deal over here.]

Yes. It's not actually a strike though. It's a lunchtime protest march but it's expected that it will take the form of an unofficial half-day stoppage. It's likely that it will predominantly be a public sector stoppage but even if it's just that, you could be talking in the region of 100,000. Certainly not insignificant for a Friday.

The fact that is being held on a Friday afternoon does appear to be quite a conscious decision. I'd say there's an attitude that a lot of people tend to be flexible on Fridays and can leave early and that will increase the attendance without directly responding to the Government and the employers through official industrial action.

[Pogue]

oh. i see. interesting thanks

[Andropov]

Despite the growing involvement of the Defence Forces abroad, it wasn't too long ago that the Army and particularly the Reserves were seen as a handy job, where you were guaranteed 3 square meals, clean clothes and a few quid at the end of the week and the chances of you being used either abroad or at home were slim. I don't think that attitude is gone yet. Any attempts to use the army against strikes would certainly provoke a reaction amongst the rank-and-file. Whether they follow through on that reaction is another thing.
Not at all.
One of my best mates is in the Free State Army and he is complaining about the waiting line for "Peace Keeping" missions abroad.
He has already done two tours in Kosovo so he is way down the pecking order for Chad.
They try and give Privates who have no experience abroad preferance ahead of Privates who have done tours already.
There is a massive up-take in these missions abroad for several reasons, it is anything but unpopular hence why the massive waiting lines.
All he moans about now is his wage constantly being cut and ironically being way down the pecking order for Chad.

[BOZG]

Not at all.
One of my best mates is in the Free State Army and he is complaining about the waiting line for "Peace Keeping" missions abroad.
He has already done two tours in Kosovo so he is way down the pecking order for Chad.
They try and give Privates who have no experience abroad preferance ahead of Privates who have done tours already.
There is a massive up-take in these missions abroad for several reasons, it is anything but unpopular hence why the massive waiting lines.
All he moans about now is his wage constantly being cut and ironically being way down the pecking order for Chad.

I don't doubt there's a layer that are interested in being shipped abroad but that is a recent phenomonen and the old attitudes can't be dismissed as simply as that. It's also one thing to go and fight people in Chad, another to go and fight Mrs. Reilly next door who brought you up.

[The Deepest Red]

There's a lot of potential in all this unrest. Society is really starting to split a long class lines. The anti-worker/anti-union propaganda mill of RTÉ and other major media outlets is working overtime these days. Pat Kenny's Frontline show the other night was a clear example of this. Jack O'Connor (as a representative of labour, whether a genuine one in reality or not) was made out to be the one "out of touch with reality" while big business and the government are the ONLY hope for recovery and a fair and sustainable future. O'Connor didn't exactly do a great job of counter-acting this either. Joe Higgins would have faired better me thinks.

[Soldier of life]

There's a lot of potential in all this unrest. Society is really starting to split a long class lines. The anti-worker/anti-union propaganda mill of RTÉ and other major media outlets is working overtime these days. Pat Kenny's Frontline show the other night was a clear example of this. Jack O'Connor (as a representative of labour, whether a genuine one in reality or not) was made out to be the one "out of touch with reality" while big business and the government are the ONLY hope for recovery and a fair and sustainable future. O'Connor didn't exactly do a great job of counter-acting this either. Joe Higgins would have faired better me thinks.

He was terrible, really was. He is poor generally though, but among a partisan studio with loaded questions being fired at him he was never going to be able to hold his ground. The programme made out like it was the employers that were the ones hit worst and that it is big business and those who led Ireland's economy to financial ruin who will get us out of this mess. Higgins would have done well though, much better rep for the left. Anyway, ICTU's proposals are a load of rubbish. I was hoping when Chomsky got on some sort of resistance would have been showed, but he was poor and not uptodate enough on Irish affairs to speak on the subject.

These marches are progressive, but nothing major. I think there will be more come the budget in december, and after this there is huge potential. A FG/LAbour coalition is next on the cards which of course will go down in history as an unmitigated disaster, if people think FF are hated now it will be incomparable when FG get in. It is then that the left must capitalise, and if it doesn't come together and do just that, it's a huge opportunity missed.

[Andropov]

ICTU's proposals were shocking.
Pure reformism at its worst.
Really embarressing and Jack O'Connor was an appropriate choice for defending such rubbish.

[BOZG]

ICTU's proposals were shocking.

That's a bit of an overstatement..... considering they don't really have any proposals beyond

1) Please negotiate a Social Partnership deal with us
2) Cut our wages and our jobs but just draw it out until 2017.

[The Deepest Red]

ICTU's proposals were shocking. Pure reformism at its worst.

If only the ICTU leadership were just reformists. They've been outright collaborators throughout the economic upswing and are only making noise now because workers are starting to react and they know their positions are under threat. Hopefully people won't be codded by their hollow rhetoric or that of the Labour party.

[The Deepest Red]

These marches are progressive, but nothing major. I think there will be more come the budget in december, and after this there is huge potential. A FG/LAbour coalition is next on the cards which of course will go down in history as an unmitigated disaster, if people think FF are hated now it will be incomparable when FG get in. It is then that the left must capitalise, and if it doesn't come together and do just that, it's a huge opportunity missed.

Spot on. There really is an urgent need for a viable, working class-orientated alternative. Gilmore's 'warning' to SIPTU that a Labour government wouldn't be a "trade unionist government" and his refusal to overturn many of the measures the Fianna Fáil & Green government is implementing will hopefully shatter any illusions some may have in his and his party's ability to solve this crisis.

[BOZG]

Spot on. There really is an urgent need for a viable, working class-orientated alternative. Gilmore's 'warning' to SIPTU that a Labour government wouldn't be a "trade unionist government" and his refusal to overturn many of the measures the Fianna Fáil & Green government is implementing will hopefully shatter any illusions some may have in his and his party's ability to solve this crisis.

That statement was particularly interesting though I'd question whether it was aimed at the trade unions themselves or whether it was aimed at capitalism - "Don't worry, we won't go too far".