In a Socialist Country, what happens to national flags?

[Socialist Guy]

Would we still have the Union flag or St. Georges Cross or would it be a red star?

[ls]

It would be a smiling picture of peter mandelson making love to himself with a st george's cross flag.

[Socialist Guy]

It would be a smiling picture of peter mandelson making love to himself with a st george's cross flag.
Just ewww.:crying:

[ls]

John major making love to margaret thatcher with gordon brown's unsocketed not-working eyeball?

[Durruti's Ghost]

Well, I don't know about Britain, but the flag of the Socialist States of America will look something like this:

http://www.jaradite.com/images/2001/flag_burning.jpg

[Socialist Guy]

Hm, I'd like a 100% sure answer please about what happens to make countries flag. Personally I find the red star flag freaking cool.

[Kukulofori]

You're not going to get a 100% sure answer to anything, ever, least of all about a revolution that we have no way of knowing what form it will take or what will happen afterwards.

[ls]

Hm, I'd like a 100% sure answer please about what happens to make countries flag. Personally I find the red star flag freaking cool.

It will with 100% certainty be this comrade: http://jewishinfonews.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/mp_galloway.jpg

[scarletghoul]

agreed

[Rusty Shackleford]

Usually red would be used to symbolize a proletarian revolution. who knows, it may have the union jack, but all red. the st. georges cross but on a red background. really though. it would depend on what the revolutionaries want. there is no prescribed flag for socialists.

[tehpevis]

Ideally, Socialism has no flag for a nation, rather a red flag of international revolution. Still, I just fuckin' love flags.

[ls]

Usually red would be used to symbolize a proletarian revolution. who knows, it may have the union jack, but all red. the st. georges cross but on a red background. really though. it would depend on what the revolutionaries want. there is no prescribed flag for socialists.

A 'communist' union jack would probably be some nazi thing, same for the st. george's cross. :cool:

[ComradeRed22'91]

well, i'm sure that everyone would agree their new flags should represent their newfound ideology and whatnot...so i guess they'd be yellow/red versions of their previous flags.

[yuon]

I could say that a socialist country, by definition, is not really socialist. After all, a country implies a government and state, a centralised enforcement organisation (army and/or police) and all sorts of stuff we really don't want.

Of course, it is possible to have a region to be socialist, but not to be a country.

Anyway, so long as the flag doesn't imply patriotism, "love of country", "my country right or wrong" or similar concepts, then I don't see a problem with a flag as such.

Indeed, socialists (including anarchists) have used flags before. However, those flags are generally more about ideas rather than "country".

[gorillafuck]

Flags that look cool.

[Andrei Kuznetsov]

I personally think the red flag will be just fine. A socialist country should be a "base area" for the international revolutionary struggle, and the red flag is the flag of that struggle.

[Revy]

There will be a flag for the world. Not a UN style flag. Something better.

The national flags (or whatever new ones are created) may still exist but there will not be any such thing as a nation-state in the world socialist federation. so those flags would merely be looked at as regional flags.

[the last donut of the night]

I ain't an admin, but move this shit to chit chat.

[Rusty Shackleford]

A 'communist' union jack would probably be some nazi thing, same for the st. george's cross. :cool:


there was a joke in my statement. a union jack, but all red. a st. georges cross on a red background. both flags would just be red :cool:

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Flags of countries wouldn't exist. We would have cool flags for each place and region decided by the community. I would say crocodiles, stars and rainbows would look good.

[Искра]

What purpose of flag anyway?

[Rusty Shackleford]

What purpose of flag anyway?

you could use it for decoration and to how where you are from by mere symbolism.

[Искра]

you could use it for decoration and to how where you are from by mere symbolism.
ok, what's purpose of flag in socialist or anarchist (since, socialism is only possible if its anarchistic) society (since there are no countries)?
decoration?
flags are used to exclude somebody arn't there?

[Rusty Shackleford]

ok, what's purpose of flag in socialist or anarchist (since, socialism is only possible if its anarchistic) society (since there are no countries)?
decoration?
flags are used to exclude somebody arn't there?

any symbol can be seen as exclusive. since there are no nations though, flags portraying national origin will disappear. flags can also symbolize political/economic ideology. red and black?

honestly. i cant think of any "official" use besides say, decoration.

[Искра]

any symbol can be seen as exclusive. since there are no nations though, flags portraying national origin will disappear. flags can also symbolize political/economic ideology. red and black?

honestly. i cant think of any "official" use besides say, decoration.
red flag = proletarian revolution
black flag = anti-flag (not the band, but concept), anti-authority

They exclude people, of course, but those people won't exist in class free society. Also, their purpose is revolutionary ... I don't know what will their purpose be after revolution is over?
But, then again there will be all sorts of flag: football teams, collages, towns.... Also, flags are creative (in most cases)...
So, I don't think that there's something wrong in flag itself, its function is more sentimental than useful...
But it will be kind of boring if all flags were red or black, whit stars and hammer and sickle...

[Rusty Shackleford]

red flag = proletarian revolution
black flag = anti-flag (not the band, but concept), anti-authority

They exclude people, of course, but those people won't exist in class free society. Also, their purpose is revolutionary ... I don't know what will their purpose be after revolution is over?
But, then again there will be all sorts of flag: football teams, collages, towns.... Also, flags are creative (in most cases)...
So, I don't think that there's something wrong in flag itself, its function is more sentimental than useful...
But it will be kind of boring if all flags were red or black, whit stars and hammer and sickle...

i agree about the sentiment of a flag. i was thinking along the lines of nationalism and politics though.

clubs, teams, events would all have flags which is very true.

[manic expression]

It is certainly possible to keep the flag of a nation or country after a working-class revolution. Cuba kept their flag exactly the same, and it has become a symbol of liberation and internationalism around the world. It really depends on what the workers want and how the struggle plays out (who embraces what symbol, etc.). However, it's ridiculous to say that national flags are incompatible with socialism.

[Comrade Gwydion]

Well, you could imagine an anarchist or council-communist world where everything is organized in local workers councils, but every once in a while they'd have to (or want to) come together with multiple regional councils to discuss large matters, there could be flags to identify different councils. Kinda like a medieval army-camp. The flags were supposed to identify which tents housed the soldiers of which noblemen, but in this case which tents housed the people/representatives of which area.


It is certainly possible to keep the flag of a nation or country after a working-class revolution. Cuba kept their flag exactly the same, and it has become a symbol of liberation and internationalism around the world. It really depends on what the workers want and how the struggle plays out (who embraces what symbol, etc.). However, it's ridiculous to say that national flags are incompatible with socialism.

Really? I allways thought the red triangle and star were added after the revolution. I remember when I was a kid, I wanted my region to secede from the country I lived in and become a socialist republic, so I took my regional flag, deleted the Dutch Lion and added a triangle and star cuban-style :P Young, stupid me^^


But I think that is one of the two ways flags will be made:
a) Traditional flags transformed (replace a symbol with a revolutionairy symbol, replace a colour with red, add the triangle etc.)
b) Simply a uni-colour red flag, with only very limite addition to differentiate with the flags of nearby regions.






Oh, and also, I just love flags and heraldry. I also love victorian military-uniform even though I have been a pacifist for most of my life, and still am very anti-military :P

[Spawn of Stalin]

It is certainly possible to keep the flag of a nation or country after a working-class revolution. Cuba kept their flag exactly the same, and it has become a symbol of liberation and internationalism around the world. It really depends on what the workers want and how the struggle plays out (who embraces what symbol, etc.). However, it's ridiculous to say that national flags are incompatible with socialism.
Agreed, some pretty odd things have been said in this topic. Socialism and states can not exist together? What?!

[Rusty Shackleford]

Agreed, some pretty odd things have been said in this topic. Socialism and states can not exist together? What?!

just give my posts no thought. i have not even thought of flags in a socialist society much before now. :blushing:

[Spawn of Stalin]

Well I was mostly referring to this post (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1577490&postcount=14).

[Spawn of Stalin]

Good post, you are off to an excellent start.

[Rjevan]

The flag would simply look like this :cool::

http://www.ethoca.com/Portals/31166/images//249px-red_flag_wavingsvg.png

[Tatarin]

The old flags would most likely end up in the museum. Though I believe people won't visit that museum for some time after the revolution.

[RedAnarchist]

Moved to Chit Chat.

As for flags, we probably won't keep the Union Flag (which is only called Jack when its flown at sea), the Tricolore, the Stars and Stripes etc after a revolution. It won't exactly be the biggest priority after a revolution.

[Honggweilo]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:VQCOXpJIluve_M:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/db/Flag_of_South_Yemen.svg/800px-Flag_of_South_Yemen.svg.pnghttp://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:nSGRssMT0ysdqM:http://medias.cafebabel.com/8002/thumb/355/-/the-eu-puts-the-gdr-flag-up-in-brussels-germany-flag-gdr-brussels-ceremony-green-capital.jpghttp://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:BXdJ_kUB52nv4M:http://unimaps.com/flags-africa/mozambique-flag.gifhttp://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:Jpa0gQkCDkSUUM:http://www.appliedlanguage.com/flags_of_the_world/large_flag_of_vietnam.gifhttp://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:laAnyrJBeaR4jM:http://www.fcs.uga.edu/ss/images/china-flag.gifhttp://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:dRGpJyI1gCh_KM:http://www.mtholyoke.edu/%7Emvcarmac/afghan%20flag%20during%20soviet%20war.gifhttp://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:wk-O8QhitCHx_M:http://www.flags-and-anthems.com/media/flags/flag-cuba.gifhttp://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:40ujfFJZKLE73M:http://www.stampseast.ca/dprk/images/dprkflag.gif

:D

and for England

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg32/CLSOLDIER5114/INGSOC.jpg

They see me trollin.. :lol:

[Rjevan]

This Ingsoc flag is much cooler! :cool:

http://brianakira.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/ingsoc-flag-01.png?w=500&h=337

[Psy]

any symbol can be seen as exclusive. since there are no nations though, flags portraying national origin will disappear. flags can also symbolize political/economic ideology. red and black?

honestly. i cant think of any "official" use besides say, decoration.

They would still be an icon to help people identify a region and language, for example when TV news reports comes from a region there probably be a title bar in the bottom of the screen with a regional logo (flag) with information on top it.

[Comrade Gwydion]

This is a reproduction of the seperatist flag I created when I was a kid
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp233/ComradeGwydion/Limburgia.jpg

Although, in second thought, I think I made the star yellow back then.

Anyway, the orignal:
http://thecrazyguy.net/imvu/600px-NL-LimburgVlag.png


Well, flags are interesting, but nationalism isn't. Flags are more recoqnisable symbols for movements or organisations or things like that.

[Honggweilo]

This is a reproduction of the seperatist flag I created when I was a kid
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp233/ComradeGwydion/Limburgia.jpg

Although, in second thought, I think I made the star yellow back then.

Anyway, the orignal:
http://thecrazyguy.net/imvu/600px-NL-LimburgVlag.png


Well, flags are interesting, but nationalism isn't. Flags are more recoqnisable symbols for movements or organisations or things like that.

limburg = fail :lol:

http://indymedia.nl/img/2008/07/53481.jpg

Den Haag *****ez

[#FF0000]

Well in this mod of Hearts of Iron 2 I play called Kaiserreich, England becomes socialist and uses this flag:

http://i40.tinypic.com/e898p2.png

[Honggweilo]

Well in this mod of Hearts of Iron 2 I play called Kaiserreich, England becomes socialist and uses this flag:

http://i40.tinypic.com/e898p2.png
wierd thing is northern ireland still belongs to britain there

[Comrade Gwydion]

limburg = fail :lol:



Den Haag *****ez

Lol.

http://www.soviethistory.org/images/Large/1936/stakhanov.jpg


Limburgian Proletariat works in the mines


http://soviethistory.org/images/Large/1921/RUSU530.jpg

The Haque, city of bourgeoisie

[Honggweilo]

Limburg, the province with the most PVV voters :rolleyes:

[Dr Mindbender]

I think national flags should have communist style symbols incorporated into them. While nations would be redundant, i think it would be a shame to lose regional symbols.

[Angry Young Man]

I hope we can do away with the union flag. Does nobody realise how tacky it is? This is how tacky it is:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39228000/jpg/_39228065__henmania1.jpg

[Il Medico]

I hope we can do away with the union flag. Does nobody realise how tacky it is? This is how tacky it is:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39228000/jpg/_39228065__henmania1.jpg
I'll do you one worse. (PS I kinda like the union flag)
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1306/716146990_f881531ff8.jpg
http://jonathanmurray.com/images/kidrockflag.jpg
http://img1.photographersdirect.com/img/16631/wm/pd801507.jpg
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/6/4/3/0986346.jpg

[spiltteeth]

anything's better than today's flag :

http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae191/spiltteeth/adbusters_corporate_flag.jpg

[Bright Banana Beard]

I despised the 13 strips, it is fucking outdated. The Socialist Republic of North America would contains no strip.

[Comrade Gwydion]

@spiltteeth

Wow, there's at least 8 logo's that I don't recognize! I'm proud!

[Angry Young Man]

I'll do you one worse. (PS I kinda like the union flag)

Nothing is more hideous than the union flag. It just couldn't be more garishly composed. It's made of three individually tasteful flags. It must be the bi cross shape drawing the eye into the middle, but it's horrendous! No country has a more brash and vulgar flag