Will socialists and anti-fascists alike forgive me?

[Socialist Guy]

For spending a wee amount of time in the british nazi party?

[Manifesto]

Why would you even be there to begin with?

[hugsandmarxism]

http://www.revleft.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=212&pictureid=3905

[Andrei Kuznetsov]

If you are a troll: GTFO

If you aren't: I actually know an ex-Nazi who is now an Anarchist. He was a Nazi when he was 14-18, but once he got into the real world he realized how much bullshit it was. Hell, when I was that age, I too almost (key word: almost) became a Nazi.

People can change, but such a change is a drastic and suspicious one.

[#FF0000]

Yeah. Whatever.

[Socialist Guy]

I'm not a troll, I can assure you that.
I was never a "Nazi", I just thought it was cool to rebel against mainstream politics. That until I found out the ideolgy of socialism. I am now proud to call myself an anti-fascist.

[ArrowLance]

I'm not a troll, I can assure you that.
I was never a "Nazi", I just thought it was cool to rebel against mainstream politics. That until I found out the ideolgy of socialism. I am now proud to call myself an anti-fascist.

The problem is it sounds like you just bounded around, still without any real political roots. But if you were young, i'm sure it can be forgiven, although never forgotten. *by me that is

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

For spending a wee amount of time in the british nazi party?

Nope.

You'll be shot at dawn.

http://www.logoi.com/pastimages/img/firing_squad_2.jpg

[Tifosi]

:laugh: You still rebeling against the world?:laugh:

[Socialist Guy]

Gulp. Seriously? I planned on telling my newly found comrades at next weeks meeting, but that doesn't seem like such a good idea!

[Socialist Guy]

:laugh: You still rebeling against the world?:laugh:
Indeed, but thankfully from a better prospective.

[Socialist Guy]

And indeed it is a big change, but I supported the BNP not really knowing what they were about. They were just some party that people loathed and I seen them one day on the street, and decided to support them after having a friendly chat to one of their activists.

Then I did research. Relised how bigoted they are and scum bags. So since then I've researched as much stuff as I humanely can about politics.

[hugsandmarxism]

And indeed it is a big change, but I supported the BNP not really knowing what they were about. They were just some party that people loathed and I seen them one day on the street, and decided to support them after having a friendly chat to one of their activists.

Then I did research. Relised how bigoted they are and scum bags. So since then I've researched as much stuff as I humanely can about politics.

Sounds like a close call I had with some LaRoucheites who were handing out fliers on campus :laugh:. I never joined or supported; just chatted up a cute girl that was there, did my research, and was like "oh fuck."

If this is honestly the case, and you've learned your lesson about researching political parties/trends before you pledge support, than I can say no harm no foul... though if it was the case that secretly you agreed with some of their bigoted, fascistic lines, than my pic still applies. Live and learn, though you can understand our caution.

[Socialist Guy]

the case that secretly you agreed with some of their bigoted, fascistic lines, than my pic still applies. Live and learn, though you can understand our caution.
I can assure you I don't agree with any of their policies, when I found some out I was like "errr, okay sure why not" then I learnt the racist ideas and was started saying to my self "riiiiiiiiight...." then left.

I suppose building up comrade trust in the real world is more important. And I intend to do that.

[Manifesto]

then I learnt the racist ideas and was started saying to my self "riiiiiiiiight...." then left.

You did not know that to begin with?

[Socialist Guy]

You did not know that to begin with?
Young, new to politics. This flag waving stall is on the street. I'm impressionable.

Get the picture? ;)

[blake 3:17]

It happens. People change.

[Manifesto]

Young, new to politics. This flag waving stall is on the street. I'm impressionable.

Get the picture? ;)
True, they do have a cool symbol/flag but I think that is still the first thing one learns about Nazis anywhere they are.

[Durruti's Ghost]

True, they do have a cool symbol/flag but I think that is still the first thing one learns about Nazis anywhere they are.

To be fair, the BNP doesn't usually come out and explicitly say "Heil Hitler!"

Though they do come pretty close...

[Mälli]

I just hope youre not just looking for "extreme" politics.

[Lolshevik]

Sounds like a close call I had with some LaRoucheites who were handing out fliers on campus :laugh:. I never joined or supported; just chatted up a cute girl that was there, did my research, and was like "oh fuck."

Pretty girls will be the doom of our movement...

The closest personal encounter I ever had with the right-wing was when my (now ex) girlfriend attempted to convert me to Christianity. But um, as long as you aren't a Nazi now - and as long as you're really genuine about your politics - I don't see why it should be held against you. Glad to have you on our side!

[Comrade Gwydion]

What's your age, kid?
I suggest you read. A lot. Newpapers, websites, books. Politics, History, anything.
Don't feel to anxious about not knowing where you stand yet. You might indeed be a socialist, you might be an anarchist, a green or perhaps even a right-wing liberal for that case. Make sure you know what you want before you act. Don't make SWP as much an embarassment for you as the BNP.
I do hope that you're more at home with the SWP, but if you're really young it is okay to take your time first.

[chegitz guevara]

I don't care where people were. I care where people are today. I see two important points. You left the BNP and you joined the socialist movement.

It seems like there's a trend on the left that demands that you not only be perfect now, but that you must always have been perfect. They can't forgive human beings for being human, and fallible. And, they would have us be in the perpetual minority, since we'll only be able to recruit red diaper babies. Fuckin' morons. (Aside from those who are obviously being silly.)

Socialism teaches that people have the capacity to change. You changed. You validate our theory. Yay!

Welcome to the struggle, comrade!

[Budog]

:rolleyes: Believe me, we have all made some really stupid and indiscretions in our exuberant youth... As long as you learn from the experience, leave it behind and move on to better thing then it wasn't necessarily a mistake but a "life learning lesson". It's only a mistake if you fail to learn and keep doing the same stupid shit. IMHO

Budog. :cursing:

[IllicitPopsicle]

Hey, it's cool. I listened to some obscure right-wing skinhead band and then went up on the SHARPskins message board and - like a dumbass - mentioned that. I didn't even know what the band stood for. Good on you for at least catching the mistake.

[ellipsis]

I support you comrade. Hopefully you will learn about socialism so you won't just be another kid in a che shirt, like I used to be, before my political education.

[IllicitPopsicle]

I'm likin' yer avatar.

[Jethro Tull]

What's the big deal? The vast majority of so-called anarchists and Marxist-Leninists in the US are social democrats, why not an ex-BNP who now loves Che?

[Zanthorus]

The vast majority of so-called anarchists and Marxist-Leninists in the US are social democrats

:confused:

[chegitz guevara]

What's the big deal? The vast majority of so-called anarchists and Marxist-Leninists in the US are social democrats, why not an ex-BNP who now loves Che?

He's in Britain, dumbass.

[9]

Yeah, if communists turn down anyone who has, at some point in their life, had ignorant sympathies for reactionaries, we'll be turning down a significant portion of the working class.

[Die Rote Fahne]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_XCx1_v0gIjU/R9QahG8qqfI/AAAAAAAAARc/qF2fo7V6zMA/s320/trotsky2.jpg

That's my face when I read the OP's first post.

[Zanthorus]

Edit: ^ :lol:

Like to point out that a certain Mikhail Bakunin once had Pan-Slavist sympathies. If we kicked out everyone who'd ever had reactionary ideological tendencies we'd probably lose a great deal of important historical figures.

[Budog]

He's in Britain, dumbass.

:bored: I think you totally missed our comrades point chegitz... So what if he is in Britain, the person who responded is obviously from the U.S. and was stating his viewpoint from an American perspective. Is calling them a "dumbass" really called for or necessary. It's petty ass bullshit and infighting that has hindered the Socialist movement greatly. JMHO

Budog.

[Pogue]

If you were young and disillusioned and you've now changed thats fine. I think the responses of some of the comrades here are disgusting. Obviously we fully supprot and encourage defections from the far-right to our side. We achknowledge that people don't get involved simply because they are life long mindless idiots - people think irrationally, people are duped, lied too, desperate, etc.

The point is, you change, and if you genuinenly have then there is no reason for us not to 'forgive' you, if thats even needed. Obviously some people might be unsure at first, especially if it was a recent change or if they gelt you didn't mean it, which is why you need to be genuine and honest. I think one problem is your thread made people a bit suspicious because you sounded like you may be trolling a bit.

Alot of Anti Fascist Actions best members during the 80s and 90s were ex-NF, the leader of one AFA section was actually ex-NF, disillusioned working class people who luckily realised they were wrong and joined the right lot.

So yeh, just explain it, its not unusual, and if your genuine they will probably see it as a huge positive that you changed.

[HEAD ICE]

I was worse, I used to be a vulgar right-wing libertarian who thought Murray Rothbard wrote intelligent things.

It's actually pretty interesting considering why I'm posting on RevLeft now. I originally joined as a part of a "forum raid" but I didn't partake in it because I subconsciously knew what I believed was bullshit and I couldn't defend it (like all right wing libertarians who aren't zombies).

[chegitz guevara]

:bored: I think you totally missed our comrades point chegitz... So what if he is in Britain, the person who responded is obviously from the U.S. and was stating his viewpoint from an American perspective. Is calling them a "dumbass" really called for or necessary. It's petty ass bullshit and infighting that has hindered the Socialist movement greatly. JMHO

Budog.


When people act like dumbasses, it's not infighting to point it out. I have very little patience for perfect revolutionaries who think it's their job to point out why everyone else is wrong.

Yes, I missed his point, which was a swipe at the whole American left. But I was still right, BT is dumbass.

[Budog]

When people act like dumbasses, it's not infighting to point it out. I have very little patience for perfect revolutionaries who think it's their job to point out why everyone else is wrong.

Yes, I missed his point, which was a swipe at the whole American left. But I was still right, BT is dumbass.

chegitz, now it has become warranted, in my not so humble opinion you are the one that is acting like a dumbass and asshole here. And if you don't have patience for me to be perfectly honest don't give a rats ass...

Budog. :laugh:

[Radical]

People make mistakes. People change. I shall not hold this against you at all.

In you're struggle for truth, I must tell you the words of the Great Che Guevara on Counter-Revolutionaries.

"“You cannot be for the revolution and be against the Cuban Communist Party. The Revolution and the Communist Party march together.”" - Something which the SWP strongly oppose

Che Guevara was a loyal Marxist-Leninist that gave his life to Revolution. Che in my opinion is the greatest revolutionary to ever live and he would most certainly see the SWP's idea's as Counter Revolutionary.

- I recommend a book to you that will help you discover weather you're a Marxist-Leninist or a Trotskyist. - http://www.cpgb-ml.org/index.php?secName=books&subName=display&bookId=7

[Holden Caulfield]

People make mistakes. People change. I shall not hold this against you at all.

In you're struggle for truth, I must tell you the words of the Great Che Guevara on Counter-Revolutionaries.

"“You cannot be for the revolution and be against the Cuban Communist Party. The Revolution and the Communist Party march together.”" - Something which the SWP strongly oppose

Che Guevara was a loyal Marxist-Leninist that gave his life to Revolution. Che in my opinion is the greatest revolutionary to ever live and he would most certainly see the SWP's idea's as Counter Revolutionary.

- I recommend a book to you that will help you discover weather you're a Marxist-Leninist or a Trotskyist. - http://www.cpgb-ml.org/index.php?secName=books&subName=display&bookId=7

Will you please shut up with your constant *****ing.
If you can debate with any member of the SWP about why they are so shit then do it, prove your point in brilliant style.
Otherwise please, for all our sake, be quiet and stop talking nonesense

[Hit The North]

Thanks for that, Holden. The constant whining of that ignorant comrade gives me a headache!

[Radical]

Will you please shut up with your constant *****ing.
If you can debate with any member of the SWP about why they are so shit then do it, prove your point in brilliant style.
Otherwise please, for all our sake, be quiet and stop talking nonesense

You may find it threatning that I am educating this Comrade on the idea's of Che, but this Comrade has already deeply regretted joining the BNP. If he joins the SWP and stays loyal to the idea's of Che, I am also very sure he will regret joining the SWP also.

[Zanthorus]

You may find it threatning that I am educating this Comrade on the idea's of Che, but this Comrade has already deeply regretted joining the BNP. If he joins the SWP and stays loyal to the idea's of Che, I am also very sure he will regret joining the SWP also.

Where the fuck did anyone say anything about the SWP?

[Holden Caulfield]

You may find it threatning that I am educating this Comrade on the idea's of Che, but this Comrade has already deeply regretted joining the BNP. If he joins the SWP and stays loyal to the idea's of Che, I am also very sure he will regret joining the SWP also.

I dont find it threatening, im not in the SWP, I have read Che's books and books about him. I mean who hasn't we were all 15 once eh

What idea's of Che exactly do the SWP reject? Do you even know? Can you form an argument or are you just going to say his name lots and slag off Trotskyists (who you have refused to debate on several times)?

Seriously there isn't a crusade against you but you talk shite mate, from trying to tell me that the Bible is a fascist book to your constant dry humping of Che's corpse.

Post like a sane individual

[chegitz guevara]

chegitz, now it has become warranted, in my not so humble opinion you are the one that is acting like a dumbass and asshole here. And if you don't have patience for me to be perfectly honest don't give a rats ass...

Budog. :laugh:

Let's keep something in mind here, comrade. The person you are defending attacked the entire American left, as well as the OP. This, you apparently have no problem with, as you haven't commented on it at all. Me telling this person he's ass for making statements like that, bothers you.

I've been in the movement for twenty years. It's not infighting that has kept us small. Largely, it's the material circumstances. Outside of that, it's perfect revolutionaries who think they have all the answers and don't need to learn anything from anyone else. And if reality doesn't conform to their ideas, it's reality that's wrong, not their ideas.

I've no patience for certain types of people, people who are perfectly happy to sit around and attack others for not being perfect like them. Whether JT has contributed to the movement or not in a positive way is irrelevant. He's intolerant of those who disagree with him, and so I'm intolerant of him.

Maybe you should be defending the original poster, not the SOB who attacked him.

[Radical]

I dont find it threatening, im not in the SWP, I have read Che's books and books about him. I mean who hasn't we were all 15 once eh

What idea's of Che exactly do the SWP reject? Do you even know? Can you form an argument or are you just going to say his name lots and slag off Trotskyists (who you have refused to debate on several times)?


haha

If Che Guevara was alive today, the SWP would immediatly dismiss him as an evil Stalinist.

"Trotsky, along with Khrushchev, belongs to the category of the great revisionists."

"Trotsky was fundamentally wrong... Trotskyists ultimately failed because their methods are bad."

"I have sworn before a picture of our old, much lamented comrade Stalin that I will not rest until I see these capitalist octopuses annihilated" - Talking about the supression of Cuban Trotskyists

The legacy of Che lives on.

[Red Isa]

Umm... Okay I, as a jew and a socialist, forgive you. Even though the Nazis killed my aunt and her baby and a few other relatives of mine, all I can say is that I am glad you see reason now. Now we're comrades, our pasts don't matter.