2 questions i will like answered

[RED ARMY FACTION]

WHY ARE THE WORKING CLASS SO BLIND, THAT IN TIMES OF ECONOMIC DEPRESION THEY END UP VOTING FOR NATIONAL SOCIALISTS.

SECOND QUESTION, WHAT WAS juan perons POLITICS AND WHY WAS HIS WIFE MADE INTO A SAINT BY THE VATICAN.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Stop using caps you big willy.

[RED ARMY FACTION]

LOL sorry the caplock has a mind of its own

[Green Dragon]

[QUOTE=RED ARMY FACTION;1576836]WHY ARE THE WORKING CLASS SO BLIND, THAT IN TIMES OF ECONOMIC DEPRESION THEY END UP VOTING FOR NATIONAL SOCIALISTS.


Because National Socialists are socialists. They blame the problems of the "working class" on their exploitation by a ethnic minority (and like all socialists, on the "rich") and propose solutions to their problems that are largely similiar to what an International socialist proposes.



SECOND QUESTION, WHAT WAS juan perons POLITICS

Peron was a "national" socialist though he never used that term. Peron followed the socialist script to a tee and as a result Argentina, which at the turn of the 20th Century, was one of the wealthiest countries on earth, has been a perpetual basket case since. As in the case of Russia, repairing the damage caused by socialism seems to be an extraordinarily difficult problem.


AND WHY WAS HIS WIFE MADE INTO A SAINT BY THE VATICAN.

I was not aware that she was. She certainly was very popular in Argentina, but also much hated as well.

[RED ARMY FACTION]

anyone else

[Bud Struggle]

As to you first question--others can answer it better than I but as to Eva Peron: she is not a Catholic saint and never will be. Not even close.

[Green Dragon]

anyone else

OK. The working class is tricked and duped into supporting the national socialists. The capitalist class system makes it easy for this to occur.

Is this the better answer?

[RED ARMY FACTION]

i wasnt being a prick comrade, i meant anyone else to answer the eva peron question

[AvanteRedGarde]

Brutish and Amerikans are petty exploiters, not proletarian.

[mykittyhasaboner]

Brutish and Amerikans are petty exploiters, not proletarian.

your funny

[Havet]

Brutish and Amerikans are petty exploiters, not proletarian.

What's a "brutish" and an "amerikan"?

Or do you mean a British and an American?

Are all British people petty exploiters? How do you know this? Have you seen them all? Are you denying that they are also being exploited?
Are all American people petty exploiters? How do you know this? Have you seen them all? Are you denying that they are also being exploited?

Seems like your trolling

[Demogorgon]

What's a "brutish" and an "amerikan"?

Or do you mean a British and an American?

Are all British people petty exploiters? How do you know this? Have you seen them all? Are you denying that they are also being exploited?
Are all American people petty exploiters? How do you know this? Have you seen them all? Are you denying that they are also being exploited?

Seems like your trolling
His own description of himself is "Maoist Third Worldist", that is simply what those nutters believe.

As to the question, I can't really be bothered answering this again, but I should point out that Green Dragon's answer is a load of rubbish. The far right has little in common with the left and his understanding of Argentina is ridiculous.

[RedKnight]

Juan Peron invented the term "Justicialism" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justicialism to describe his political philosophy. And as for why people tend to support "national socialism" in times of crisis, it's probally just because they don't know any better, and lack social consciousness.

[Bud Struggle]

The far right has little in common with the left and his understanding of Argentina is ridiculous.

Well that the thing about South American Populists Dictators----they don't easily fit into one category or another. Peron did have a VERY Socialist agenda in some respects in other ways he was close to being a Nazi. He in a lot of ways is very close to Hugo Chavez--who claims he is a Socialist, yet has a number of other traits that put his politics and economics all over the map.

Chavez identifies himself as a Socialist--Peron did not. If Peron took the added stop of calling himself a Communist I doubt that most Socialists would have much trouble in putting him in the pantheon with Mao and Hohxa and Ho Chi Min.

[RED ARMY FACTION]

he said he was on the left for some things, on the right for others.

he said he would help "the shirtless ones" meaning the proletariat

[AvanteRedGarde]

What's a "brutish" and an "amerikan"?

Or do you mean a British and an American?

Are all British people petty exploiters? How do you know this? Have you seen them all? Are you denying that they are also being exploited?
Are all American people petty exploiters? How do you know this? Have you seen them all? Are you denying that they are also being exploited?


You're committing a logical fallacy. Did marx see every working person in Germany?

I'm just stating the obvious. First Worlders don't want revolution because
they benefit from current class arrangements.



Seems like your trolling

You seem like an idiot. Stay off OI is you don't want you halfwitted bullshit "leftist" rhetoric challenged.

[spice756]

i wasnt being a prick comrade, i meant anyone else to answer the eva peron question

no he had the best answer and there really is no other answer .In the US people become racist or anti-immigrants of fear of job take over .But the true is immigrants and non whites have to do jobs that American white people will NOT do. The immigrants and non whites get less pay ,less benefits and last moving up the ladder of being a Supervisor or VP.They are stuck at the lowest position of the job.

On top of that employers are less likaly to hire non whites in skilled job or higher position .

Well Hollywood and the news reporters are prime exemple of racism and sexism.Of guys saving the day mostly 99% of the time all guys are main actor.

The only time a girl is used in Hollywood is if a guy being main actor has girlfriend ,helper or sleeping with a girl.The 98% of all white actors and actress being white and less than 2% being non white .The only movies I know of solo female actor is Tomb Raider and the television series Charlie's Angels .

Look at Hollywood all white actors and actress and on top of that if that is not enough mostly blondes .You don't see to many movies with girl having dark hair.And I have yet to see the chinese ,spanish , aboriginals so on make their way into Hollywood .

I don't know how Hollywood by law can do this.If you non white and what to get skilled job ,be in Hollywood ,be a reporter , higher position , better pay or job it is very hard.Most have to do jobs that white people do not what to do.

[RED ARMY FACTION]

wtf are you talking about i said why was eva peron made a saint by the pope
thats what i meant moron

[Bud Struggle]

wtf are you talking about i said why was eva peron made a saint by the pope
thats what i meant moron

Are you talking to me?

As I said: the Pope did not make Eva Peron a saint and never will.

[RED ARMY FACTION]

no i was talking to spice, and she was im pretty sure, it said it on the documentary blonde saint

[Bud Struggle]

no i was talking to spice, and she was im pretty sure, it said it on the documentary blonde saint

That was just a euphemism. She's not an official saint in the eyes ofthe Pope, the Vatican or the Catholic Church. She is a saint in the eyes of the Argentinian Proletariat--quite another thing altogether.

It's the Proletariat that made her a saint--not the Church. And from what I understand she wasn't all that blonde when her roots started to show.

Oh--and welcome to OI. :)

[RED ARMY FACTION]

lol cheers, why were you restricted, you a social democrat, if so fuck off:D

[Bud Struggle]

lol cheers, why were you restricted, you a social democrat, if so fuck off:D

Then consider me "fucked off." :D

Hey, I'd be a Socialist if I thought for a second a Revolution would work. But if you Commies could actually pull the Revolution off--I'd be happy to be corrected.

I also have a minor character flaw that lets me own a factory and profit from worker's labors--guilt free. But I'm working on that.

Cheers.

[Demogorgon]

Well that the thing about South American Populists Dictators----they don't easily fit into one category or another. Peron did have a VERY Socialist agenda in some respects in other ways he was close to being a Nazi. He in a lot of ways is very close to Hugo Chavez--who claims he is a Socialist, yet has a number of other traits that put his politics and economics all over the map.

Chavez identifies himself as a Socialist--Peron did not. If Peron took the added stop of calling himself a Communist I doubt that most Socialists would have much trouble in putting him in the pantheon with Mao and Hohxa and Ho Chi Min.
I wasn't specifically referring to that. I will come to Peron in a moment, but rather I was criticising Green Dragon for a poor view of Argentina in general. A silly narrative of prosperity->Peron->basket case simply shows an ignorance of Argentina. That has nothing at all to do with my views on Peron, I simply think it is a stupid thing to say and to say it in answer to a question is simply to mislead the questioner.

As for Peron, he was an economic populist, no doubt about that. But it wasn't socialism, it was welfare capitalism with a bit of corporativism and producerism thrown in, a different beast. I don't doubt that if he had called himself a socialist then there would be a fair few idiots on the left deifying him, I mean if they will buy Hoxha or Kim Il Sung's claim to be socialists, they will believe anything, but that wouldn't actually make him a socialist.

As it stands though, he did not claim to be a socialist and acted in a manner clearly showing he did not wish to be associated with such. And of course the feeling was mutual. So I don't think it is terribly relevant to bring him up with regards to socialism. A comparison to Chavez could of course be made in argument, but its proper use would be to attack Chavez (note I disagree with this criticism, I just think it is a valid argument), not to say Peron helds to what Chavez claims as his own views.

[Decolonize The Left]

WHY ARE THE WORKING CLASS SO BLIND, THAT IN TIMES OF ECONOMIC DEPRESION THEY END UP VOTING FOR NATIONAL SOCIALISTS.

The working class is not blind. They are highly aware of their situation and conditions, but the situation is not black and white as you paint it to be.

People vote for national socialists because these individuals play to emotional strands in fearful people. The cause of nationalism is as old as nations themselves and is often a very easy way to unite people in the face of 'an enemy.' In times of perceived crisis, individuals are easier to nudge in directions of the right because they are fearful of losing their livelihoods. National socialist paint a simple picture of 'the old times when things were good,' the 'dangerous enemy who can only be combated by the national socialists,' a 'unified nation,' and 'prosperity within security.' It's not hard to see why these ideas are appealing to people, is it?


SECOND QUESTION, WHAT WAS juan perons POLITICS AND WHY WAS HIS WIFE MADE INTO A SAINT BY THE VATICAN.

No idea. Why is this important (in regards to the first question)?

- August

[Havet]

You're committing a logical fallacy. Did marx see every working person in Germany?

No, but obviously he recognized that some of the working class were more privileged than others, and he sought to establish the theoretical principles which would unite the unprivileged and the privileged against the exploiters.


I'm just stating the obvious. First Worlders don't want revolution because
they benefit from current class arrangements.

This is why many people here are from America or the UK?

You cannot just go about and make hasty generalizations about everyone. While it may be true that most people current aren't interested in a revolution, that does not mean that they are not upset at the current situation, and don't want to change it.


You seem like an idiot. Stay off OI is you don't want you halfwitted bullshit "leftist" rhetoric challenged.

Sorry, but you're the idiot for believing in logical fallacies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasty_generalization).

You completely ignore inequality gaps in first world countries, and the exploitation that IS taking place.

Those countries might be wealthier, and people might not want a revolution (which comes from social indoctrination of belief in parliamentary democracy as a means of solution), that doesn't mean they might not want a revolution int he future, once their belief in "working within the system" is crushed.

[Honggweilo]

WHY ARE THE WORKING CLASS SO BLIND, THAT IN TIMES OF ECONOMIC DEPRESION THEY END UP VOTING FOR NATIONAL SOCIALISTS.

SECOND QUESTION, WHAT WAS juan perons POLITICS AND WHY WAS HIS WIFE MADE INTO A SAINT BY THE VATICAN.
BECAUSE MY CAPS LOCK KEY IS LOUD (http://encyclopediadramatica.com/BECAUSE_MY_CAPS_LOCK_KEY_IS_LOUD)