IRA struggle turned into Catholic Conservatism?

[RED ARMY FACTION]

Why did the Republican cause in N ireland become linked with catholic conservetism.
I recently read the Provos ira and seinfein, and it says the IRA did not allow marxists into their ranks, yet they all love connolly and the 1916 easter rising.
How can they want british impearialism out to stop the oppresion of the irish people, yet they were not ready to remove capitalism?

[chegitz guevara]

They were always linked with conservative Catholicism.

[RED ARMY FACTION]

Why did they not follow connolly in his political cast rather than the more conservative rebels of the easter rising?

[Tifosi]

Why did they not follow connolly in his political cast rather than the more conservative rebels of the easter rising?

Is that not one of the reason's behide the 1969 split? the OIRA let Marxist's in.

[khad]

Why did the Republican cause in N ireland become linked with catholic conservetism.

http://saoirse32.blogsome.com/2009/01/02/oglaigh-na-heireann-new-years-statement/


Óglaigh na hÉireann New Years Statement 2009

The leadership of Óglaigh na hÉireann send new years greetings to our friends, supporters and to our volunteers who have remained steadfast, committed and dedicated to defending the republican position in the face of massive odds.

We also remembers at this time all republican POW’s and political prisoners incarcerated in gaols throughout Ireland, Britain, Europe and America, the republican community appreciate your sacrifice and will continue to work on your behalf.

We extend solidarity greetings to fellow revolutionaries across the world and we draw inspiration from other struggles against occupation and imperialism.

In the past 12 months Óglaigh na hÉireann have continued to organise, develop and consolidate. We have carried out a number of attacks against British state interests in Ireland and our volunteers have stood shoulder to shoulder with our communities against the scourge of Drugs. Óglaigh na hÉireann have taken direct action against a number of drug networks across the country and in the coming year, we not allow our communities to face this menace alone.

This past year has also saw republicanism under a level of attack from the Chruch, State and Media that has not been witnessed for many years. Those who consider republicanism an irrelevance should take a look at the massive resources the status quo is investing to defeat us. The British are spending unlimited amounts of money on surveillance and intelligence, the Free State are interning republicans at the behest of the British, the media are continuing to fabricate lies on a daily basis and many editors have developed and almost pathological hatred of Anti Stormont republicans.

Again the Catholic church has entered the fray on the side of capitalism, conservatism and the status quo, this is to be expected. We would advise the church to clean up their own back yard before commenting on others. They should take the plank out of their own eyes before worrying themselves about the splinters in others. It is perhaps a small mercy that the church is no longer a major player in forming opinions in Irish society.

In the Coming year Óglaigh na hÉireann will continue to resist the British occupation of Ireland by any and all means including the force of arms, however, all republican organisations must remain disciplined and no one should engage in attacks or threats that they cannot immediately defend or explain. For our part Óglaigh na hÉireann will stand behind any actions we take.

Republicanism is facing into a difficult future, the forces ranged against us are many and we are few. We must think and act strategically and in the long term, the British are not going anywhere soon and neither are we. Republicans must develop realistic short and medium term goals, 2009 will not be the year of victory and another phase of the long war is yet to begin in earnest.

Óglaigh na hÉireann is facing a huge uphill struggle but we will face it full on, make no mistake, we are here for the long haul, we will continue to exist until the illegal occupation of our nation has ended.

Victory to the IRA.

[Spawn of Stalin]

Throughout its existence, the various forms of the IRA have had people of many different political ideologies among them, but the IRSP and the INLA are by far the best republican groups in Ireland and closer to Connolly's ideals than the Real IRA could ever dream of being.

[PRC-UTE]

Is that not one of the reason's behide the 1969 split? the OIRA let Marxist's in.

That was a factor, yes, and traditionalist republicans liked Ruairi O Bradaigh claimed to be a "bulwark against communism in Ireland" or something to that effect. Yet within only a few short years people who identified with leftist ideas were prominent in the Republican Movement (although it's debatable to what extent this was genuine, and to what extent it was purely rhetorical to appeal to their membership and prevent defections to the IRSM).

Regardless, the biggest issue of the time of the split was the decision made by the RM to end abstentionism, and take up seats if elected. This was seen as recognising partition and normalising it. Going by the available evidence and testimonials, this was the single most important issue at the time, by far.

There's other reasons cited for the split, like the famous claim that the people who became the leader of the Stickies/OIRA allowed the RM to be run down, and were unprepared for the coming onslaught of the Troubles and the massive attacks on Catholics that kicked it off (which made thousands, mostly Catholics, refugees). However, that claim was mostly made in hindsight, it wasn't really a big factor at the time of the split. No-one saw the Troubles coming, despite what they might say now.


Throughout its existence, the various forms of the IRA have had people of many different political ideologies among them, but the IRSP and the INLA are by far the best republican groups in Ireland and closer to Connolly's ideals than the Real IRA could ever dream of being.

Right, only the irps adopted a programme during the Troubles that national liberation and socialist revolution must be pursued at the same time. They also objected to the OIRA's stagist theory, that Ireland could be liberated in distinct stages, beginning with reformist class politics. All of the other republican groups either focused exclusively on the national question or social issues.

[PRC-UTE]

Why did the Republican cause in N ireland become linked with catholic conservetism.
I recently read the Provos ira and seinfein, and it says the IRA did not allow marxists into their ranks, yet they all love connolly and the 1916 easter rising.
How can they want british impearialism out to stop the oppresion of the irish people, yet they were not ready to remove capitalism?

They would have been linked to it, sure. Key leaders like Billy McKee, who was the first Officer Commanding, Belfast Brigade, PIRA and others were staunchly Catholics, McKee wanted to end the war because he claimed it was damaging the relationship between the Church and Catholic people. However it's basically correct to say that Gerry Adams' faction in the PIRA Army Council basically purged that kind of conservatism.

But keep in mind, the ideology and more importantly the activities of republicanism are completely condemned by the Church as sinful and contrary to Church teaching. Priests would even condemn republican volunteers at their own funerals!

[Dr Mindbender]

Why did the Republican cause in N ireland become linked with catholic conservetism.
I recently read the Provos ira and seinfein, and it says the IRA did not allow marxists into their ranks, yet they all love connolly and the 1916 easter rising.
How can they want british impearialism out to stop the oppresion of the irish people, yet they were not ready to remove capitalism?

It has roots a long long way back in history. Id say it started as far back as the plantations, with the Church of England playing a rather large role in the colonisation of Ireland, creating an 'us and them' relationship between the English settlers and predominantely catholic indigenous Irish.

The Williamite wars were what cemented this, with obvious religious overtones of the conflict between both the orange protestant army of William and catholic army of James. I'd say if anything, its the continuous existance of the Orange order and to a more diminished extent the order of hibernians that sustains the religious relevance of the Northern Ireland conflict. The british state were also responsible for building the 'peace line' between areas which were more pronunced in terms of members of either denomination. It was never any agenda of theocracy on the part of the IRA or dissident republicans.

[Philanthropist]

yet they all love connolly and the 1916 easter rising.
Connolly is a figure in history that the provisional movement were and are able to piggy back off without having to stand by his politics. He marched with the ICA into the GPO, which is enough for the provisional movement without them having to ask what his motives were to do so.


How can they want british impearialism out to stop the oppresion of the irish people, yet they were not ready to remove capitalism?
They have always showed nothing more than a hypocritical respect towards understanding the need for a workers revolution bringing about a united Ireland rather than a united Ireland ruled by native capitalists instead. It can be seen through their actions within stormont that they can claim to be socialists through one side of their mouths yet from the other they can act to perpetuate the bourgeois system in the north and south. Even on Monday the provisional movement had their "chief negotiator" Martin Mcguinness over at the NYSE begging for scraps from the table.


Religion has always been a tactic used by the bourgeois to divide the working class and used as a blindfold to the true common enemy of the working class in the north.
The provisional movement did to an extent get dragged into that religious side taking, but it would seem no accident as they have benefited politically from it. They have no reasons to make strides towards working class unity because it would only be at the expense of the large demographic their "side" of the religious divide has gained for them.

[Redmau5]

and it says the IRA did not allow marxists into their ranks

Of course they did. I personally know a few Marxists who were PIRA volunteers during the 1969-'94 war.

There is a widely held myth that one of the reasons the IRA split was because the Officials wanted to adopt a Marxist political outlook, while those who formed the Provisional movement tended to be of a more conservative, Catholic persuasion. While there is an element of truth in that claim, (as PRC-UTE pointed out, several high-ranking PIRA figures were staunch Catholics) the PIRA certainly weren't some organisation comprised of fanatical religious lunatics. A great deal of PIRA volunteers were socialists, although it's questionable how "socialist" the likes of Gerry Adams were, despite the rhetoric about a 32-county socialist republic,

[Revy]

It is true that the IRA and its political wing, Sinn Fein have looked in the past for conservative financial support abroad (mostly in the United States). A prominent example of this is U.S. Republican Congressman Peter King.

[Redmau5]

It is true that the IRA and its political wing, Sinn Fein have looked in the past for conservative financial support abroad (mostly in the United States). A prominent example of this is U.S. Republican Congressman Peter King.

Indeed. The US edition of An Phoblacht (Sinn Féin's newspaper) often dropped the revolutionary references about socialism and workers control in favour of a more conservative tone.

[Philosophical Materialist]

It is true that the IRA and its political wing, Sinn Fein have looked in the past for conservative financial support abroad (mostly in the United States). A prominent example of this is U.S. Republican Congressman Peter King.

I'll also add that PSF has a very ambiguous position on reproductive choice. In Ireland, PSF's opposition to abortion rights are phrased in tackling the "circumstances" that cause women to have abortions (poverty etc). Whereas over the Atlantic, PSF tells the US public that it is unambiguously "pro-life." PSF grass-roots in the 26-counties are more consistently pro-choice, but they haven't swayed the leadership on the matter.

[PRC-UTE]

this is a good read about some of the motivations for the IRA's splits: http://splinteredsunrise.wordpress.com/