Dada

[scarletghoul]

I need to research Dadaism for college. Because it was kinda political and there is one guy here with the username Dada, I thought maybe some of you would know some cool resources or be able to summarise it? Especially the political context interests me. I don't know much about it at all so all info would be useful. :):)

[JazzRemington]

I'd post something more concise, but the below is pretty good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dada

[Q]

For a moment I was inclined to move this to chit-chat, but it actually seems serious :huh:

[BobKKKindle$]

For a moment I was inclined to move this to chit-chat, but it actually seems serious :huh:

lol Q was that supposed to be a deep comment on the nature of dada itself?

[Q]

lol Q was that supposed to be a deep comment on the nature of dada itself?
I followed the wiki link and low and behold I discovered Dada means more then babytalk :p

[Spawn of Stalin]

The International Dada Archive (http://www.lib.uiowa.edu/dada/index.html).

[Comrade B]

My parents teach this, is there anything specific you want to know about Dadaism?

[scarletghoul]

Who were some of the main dada artists?

[which doctor]

Max Ernst, Marcel Duchamp, and Tristan Tzara are probably the 3 most famous dadaists. To put it simply, dada was a reaction against bourgeois culture during and after WWI. They began to deconstruct art and culture to show just how ludicrous and shallow it all was. In some ways, they could be considered proto-postmodernists in that respect. The most important thing to remember when studying dadaism is not to take it too seriously. Although you can treat dada as a serious scholarly topic, you have to first understand that it's all rather tongue-in-cheek.

[yuon]

A picture of a urinal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fountain_(Duchamp)) would be a good thing to include in any discussion on the matter.

As I understand Dadaism, there was a lot of the absurd (in the general meaning of the word, rather than some philosophical meaning) in it. There was a lot of not taking seriously conventions and so on. Personally, I really like the "shocking" nature of dadaism, and I wish there was more public attacks on popular culture today.

[JazzRemington]

I used to be something of a DaDaist when I was an undergrad in college. The farthest extent I took it was the creation of an epic collage that is now to be presumed lost, as I don't care to retrieve it from the place it was stored.

[Revy]

It was the proto-surrealism. Prominent figures within Dada like Max Ernst and Andre Breton later became figures in the nascent Surrealist movement. Both movements were dominated by the revolutionary left.

Apparently, there was a split and the anarchists stayed with Dada while Trotskyists and left communists made up much of the new Surrealist movement.

[which doctor]

Another interesting fact. The ground zero, so to speak, of Dada was the Cabaret Voltaire in Zurich, Switzerland. Rumor has it that Lenin lived across the street from it while he was in exile. If only the two would have met, but I suppose a man planning for a revolution has no time for fun and games :lol:

[spiltteeth]

If I were doing a paper on dada I'd walk to the front of the class, cut up the paper with scissors, put the scraps into a hat, then randomly pick out pieces and read them.

[scarletghoul]

It was the proto-surrealism. Prominent figures within Dada like Max Ernst and Andre Breton later became figures in the nascent Surrealist movement. Both movements were dominated by the revolutionary left.

Apparently, there was a split and the anarchists stayed with Dada while Trotskyists and left communists made up much of the new Surrealist movement.
did they even have trotskyists then?

[black magick hustla]

its not only about art and culture. a lot of dadaism had very little to do with "painting" or "poetry". it was a reaction against the logic of that time. The rejection of this "logic" was made because it was this "logic" that led to a world war. dadaists dreamed about revolution, and the "dadaist council fr world revolution" was armed to the teeth and participated in the german revolution.

i dont really care about the art. i am not even that big on critical theory, etc. i just like their attitude a lot. they were willing to degenerate everything they touched, laugh at the face of the moral authorities of that time, and they were borne from a period where civilization was about to collapse - either to a communist revolution or to fascism.

[Revy]

did they even have trotskyists then?

my point was that it influenced Surrealism, which did have some Trotskyists in it including Leon Trotsky himself.

[blake 3:17]

Dadaism was basically a revolt against the European mindset that created the first World War. Probably the best book on it is Peter Burger's Theory of the Avant Garde which puts Marcel Duchamp and John Heartfield (two very very different Dadaist artists) at its centre.

Hans Richter's book dada: art and anti-art is probably the best general introduction.

Duchamp, while basically apolitical, did more than any other artist in the 20th century at redefining the basic category of Art. Calvin Tomkin's biography of Duchamp is quite good and readable.

Anyways, if you want other hints or suggestions throw them in here or PM me. It's a mild obsession of mine.

Edited to add:
my point was that it influenced Surrealism, which did have some Trotskyists in it including Leon Trotsky himself.

Trotsky himself was never a Surrealist. He did collaborate with Andre Breton, the founder of Surrealism, on the Manifesto for a Free Independent Revolutionary Art which was a response to the Stalinist doctrine of Socialist Realism.

[bricolage]

Another interesting fact. The ground zero, so to speak, of Dada was the Cabaret Voltaire in Zurich, Switzerland. Rumor has it that Lenin lived across the street from it while he was in exile. If only the two would have met, but I suppose a man planning for a revolution has no time for fun and games :lol:

Indeed.


The Cabaret Voltaire played and raised hell at No. 1, Spiegelgasse. Diagonally opposite, at No. 12, Spiegelgasse, the same narrow thoroughfare in which the Cabaret Voltaire mounted its nightly orgies of singing, poetry and dancing, lived Lenin. Radek, Lenin and Zinoviev were allowed complete liberty. I saw Lenin in the library several times and once heard him speak at a meeting in Berne. He spoke good German. It seemed to be that the Swiss authorities were much more suspicious of the Dadaists, who were after all capable of perpetrating some new enormity at any moment, then of these quiet, studious Russians... even though the latter were planning a world revolution and later astonished the authorities by carrying it out

However I'm always wary to glorify the political leanings of Dada despite this quote from the Pompidou that always gets floated about;


"During the war, Club Dada represented the internationality of the world, it is an international anti-bourgeois movement!"Whilst the movement was very adept at making the ruling classes squirm and ridiculing their ideas of culture, to say they were 'revolutionary leftists' is rather an overstatement;


There was a revolution going on, and Dada was right in the thick of it. At one moment they were all for the Spartakus movement; then it was Communism, Bolshevism, Anarchism and whatever else was going. But there was always a side-door left open for a quick getaway, if this should be necessary to preserve what Dada valued most - personal freedom and independence.


i dont really care about the art. i am not even that big on critical theory, etc. i just like their attitude a lot. they were willing to degenerate everything they touched, laugh at the face of the moral authorities of that time, and they were borne from a period where civilization was about to collapse - either to a communist revolution or to fascism.

I'd agree with this (except for the fact that I do really like a lot of the art however I think its really important that we remember the last point you make, the specific historical period that Dada existed in. Furthermore we have to understand that like every other subversive cultural movement, Dada has become assimilated by capitalist society, effectively pacifying its once radical potential. When Duchamp submitted his Fountain to a New York exhibition it was flat out rejected and the jurors were appalled, in the late 50s in hung over the main entrance to a gallery and was filled with geraniums, now you can pose for pictures next to it. It's a common story.

[blake 3:17]

I don't think the spirit of it can be totally assimilated by capital. I'm blanking who made your avatar -- Picabia?

Sure the individual artworks, or particular artists, or certain bits of style, but the essential anarchism retains a vitality.

Within contemporary art, a great deal of which sprung from Dada via pop art is entirely subservient to capital. There are also a lot of people working outside the system making their weird ass shit that may or may not be politically radical but have a basic contempt for art for money's sake.

[spiltteeth]

Letterism came in to existence as an extension of dada, many of whose proponents became situationists and laid the creative ground work for the french '68 revolt.

[scarletghoul]

thanks guys

[which doctor]

If I were doing a paper on dada I'd walk to the front of the class, cut up the paper with scissors, put the scraps into a hat, then randomly pick out pieces and read them.
If I were the professor I'd give you an F for being unoriginal. If you're interpretation of dada is to reenact a cliched stunt within the confines of an academic classroom, then you probably didn't understand the subject material too well.

but then again i'm kinda an asshole

[spiltteeth]

If I were the professor I'd give you an F for being unoriginal. If you're interpretation of dada is to reenact a cliched stunt within the confines of an academic classroom, then you probably didn't understand the subject material too well.

but then again i'm kinda an asshole

yea you are.

I assume you know it is a re-enactment of the famous Tristan Tzara episode which caused such an uproar (a fight actually broke out in the bar), the 1st proper 'cut-up' which tried to artificially reproduce the element of spontaneity in art (in this case of poetry), which culminated perhaps in WSBurroughs 'cut-up' trilogy or perhaps in the inspiration Joyce took in thinking of conciseness itself as a cut-up and which was to have such a profound effect on art (Rauschenberg, Bacon, Gysin etc) and literature.

Then again you being a professor would probably represent the true spirit of dada, with its utter disregard of meaning and sense and its embrace of the absurd.

[What Would Durruti Do?]

Basically it was the Western European version of and opposite of constructivism. It was about destroying the current society, whereas the Russian constructivists were trying to build a new one. Until it was co-opted and ruined by the Bolsheviks. Same old story.

[bricolage]

I don't think the spirit of it can be totally assimilated by capital. I'm blanking who made your avatar -- Picabia?

It was Hausmann.


Within contemporary art, a great deal of which sprung from Dada via pop art is entirely subservient to capital. There are also a lot of people working outside the system making their weird ass shit that may or may not be politically radical but have a basic contempt for art for money's sake.

I'm not saying there there can no longer be such thing as radical art just that Dada, or Constructivism, or Futurism etc etc can no longer be radical. If you presented a ready made today or, as one poster here suggested, threw bits of paper on the floor randomly, people would not blink an eyelid and it would certainly no challenge any established views. I say this because I feel there is a tendency to glorify and thus seek to replicated previous art movements but while we can recognise their role at the time to try and do the same thing now is fruitless. Radical art can still exist it just has to actually be radical and not passé.

[Honggweilo]

Very popular german marxist dadaist, even very much praised in the west, and inspired alot of contemporary artist, including the cover of the SOAD album "system of a down"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Heartfield

http://www.robertlpeters.com/news/wp-content/uploads/john_heartfield_cross.jpg
http://desaingrafisindonesia.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/261600489_9b62b636e2.jpg
http://www.mariabuszek.com/kcai/Expressionism/Expressionism/Final/Dada/HeartfldLittle.jpg
http://facweb.cs.depaul.edu/sgrais/images/Collage/Heartfield_Hurrah-2.jpg
http://my.fit.edu/%7Erosiene/1928heartfield.jpg
http://www.freewebs.com/kimmiejjjjj/System_Of_A_Down_009.jpg

[scarletghoul]

Seems pretty cool. Is he the most communisty one? I have to pick a particular Dada artist to research and write about. Should I do him, or are there some others ?

[Honggweilo]

He was a very prominent member of the German KPD and Head illustrator for one of the most prominent graphic magazines of the workersmovement; AIP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbeiter-Illustrierte-Zeitung). He is also the father of photocollage. You cant get more communist then John Heartfield in the dadaist movement.