Utilization of proles desperation

[RED ARMY FACTION]

Why have revolutionary conditions not femented yet, we seem much further away from communism than we were 2 decades ago.
Does anyone see the Urban Guerrilla groups reemerging to combat the new millenia of capitalistic rule.
When the RAF applied their theory of guerrilla warfare in west german federal republic they were sucsessful in causing the state huge costs in building damage, they aquired 7 million Dmarks from capitalist banks and they liberated thousands of books to the masses, as literature belongs to not one but rather all.
Not to mention the 60 pigs and ex nazis like schlyer and the plane hijacks in cooperation with the Palestinains.
If a Urban Guerrilla network was srt up in every major western country which held sway over politics in the west, they could disrupt the whole NATO alliance and systematically destroy the stability of capitalist economies.
This would of course be supported by "peacefull" marches, organized strikes, bank money redistributions and a propoganda wing.

Marx said that the end of capitalism was inevitable, but i think it is inevitable only if we make steps to weaken it, so it can then collapse over its own weight.

Maybe i am just pissed off at how we are stagnating in the new world order, but i am scared we are becoming dinasours and we are squandering the knowledge Marx and Engels passed on to us.

Poll: would you support new urban guerrilla cells or do you beleive we should wait for the "orthodox" path to marxist leninist dogma path to lead us to red revolution.

[TRS]

So basically you're asking people on an open forum which we know is monitored by police, if they'd support illegal "terrorist" action.

smart.

[RED ARMY FACTION]

No its a hyperthetical, i do not ever support so called "terrorist" organizations.
This poll is not advocating terrorism, its a persons choice wether they would sympathise with an idea, this is not a crime.
If so galloways radioshow would be shutdown and he would be imprisoned.

[gorillafuck]

When the RAF applied their theory of guerrilla warfare in west german federal republic they were sucsessful in causing the state huge costs in building damage, they aquired 7 million Dmarks from capitalist banks and they liberated thousands of books to the masses, as literature belongs to not one but rather all.
They also alienated people from their cause and increased repression.

[ls]

No its a hyperthetical, i do not ever support so called "terrorist" organizations.
This poll is not advocating terrorism, its a persons choice wether they would sympathise with an idea, this is not a crime.
If so galloways radioshow would be shutdown and he would be imprisoned.

Well, he deserves to be publicly whipped, that much is certain.

[RED ARMY FACTION]

They increased represion, showing the west german capitalist state as the bougesie monsters they are.

[gorillafuck]

They increased represion, showing the west german capitalist state as the bougesie monsters they are.
Ya....

That's not a good thing.

[FSL]

They increased represion, showing the west german capitalist state as the bougesie monsters they are.

They increased repression because the "average man" who wasn't already a full-blown revolutionary ready to crass capitalism saw them as mad men and voted for governments that would increase repression.



Speaking to people in your workplace, working with others to get a strike going, standing for your ideas in a debate. These ways are much too slow, too "low-profile", people most often answer with shrugging or with the "Are you insane?" look. That path you need to be commited to choose, in the moments when concience is still being built for every small victory there will be 100 times people pass you by.

There is an abundance it seems of angry people who want to change it all in a moment, but very few that are willing to take the daily beating when you 're trying to get through to people.

[RED ARMY FACTION]

Yes im not saying the raf were great, but if there were a raf style urban guerrilla cell in every western country the proletariat would rise up and the capitalist states would be burdened by sustained guerrilla attacks crippling economic, media and military dominance held by the western evil impearialist capitalist powers

[FSL]

Yes im not saying the raf were great, but if there were a raf style urban guerrilla cell in every western country the proletariat would rise up and the capitalist states would be burdened by sustained guerrilla attacks crippling economic, media and military dominance held by the western evil impearialist capitalist powers


Honestly, you seem like a troll. Or maybe I 'm out of touch with certain people.

If urban guerilla groups like RAF were present in every country, then every country would be getting a nazi-like government to "protect the citizens."


And in any case, just go shoot at some people and come back in 5 years with the results. You might be right.

[RED ARMY FACTION]

I hope they would turn into nazi states, so the capitalists couldnt hide behind the veneer of democracy anymore

[bcbm]

the urban guerrilla was an absolute failure, both tactically and politically. the logic of terrorism eventually becomes separate from political concerns, seeking only to "outdo" previous efforts and cause more destruction and bloodshed. its no coincidence the profile of most terrorists was similar to professional athletes. communism is built by the workers as a class, not by a bunch of idiots with guns.

[RED ARMY FACTION]

So guevara fidel and raul were idiots

[bcbm]

I hope they would turn into nazi states, so the capitalists couldnt hide behind the veneer of democracy anymore

and what, then everyone will rise up? this has always been the logic of the urban guerrilla and in every single place it has been attempted, it has failed miserably. most spectacularly for the tupamaros, one of the original groups to pioneer the "strategy of tension." all it leads to is further repression and the murder or torture of dissidents not related to the armed struggle.

[Tablo]

So guevara fidel and raul were idiots
They had the backing of the Cuban peoples. They had a full blown revolution. Not some small urban terror operation.

[bcbm]

So guevara fidel and raul were idiots

the cuban revolution was not an urban guerrilla movement, though its worth noting that they had mass support in the cities from the working class, which was instrumental in toppling batista.

[RED ARMY FACTION]

support would stabilize once the guerrillas proved they could strike at the heart of the bourgesie ruling class

[RED ARMY FACTION]

i know cuba was a rural guerrilla campaign but that is not possible in alot of modern nations, though maybe possible in the US and Canada because of the rockies and american forests, but as there are no farmers etc they would have to resuply themselves with food and other essentials.

[RED ARMY FACTION]

we have never seen global guerrilla networks spanning britain france germany russia america canada italy spain portugal greece turkey isreal.
80 men in each country could sustain hit and run attacks, even if it failed it would inspire millions of people to read up on marxism and breed the next set of revolutionaries.
The working class would see a marxist force fighting for them in a unified and concentrated act of class liberation and the fight against the oppresive system of capitalism

[Tablo]

we have never seen global guerrilla networks spanning britain france germany russia america canada italy spain portugal greece turkey isreal.
80 men in each country could sustain hit and run attacks, even if it failed it would inspire millions of people to read up on marxism and breed the next set of revolutionaries.
The working class would see a marxist force fighting for them in a unified and concentrated act of class liberation and the fight against the oppresive system of capitalism
Or such acts would be condemned by the media and the people, being the sheep they are, would listen and condemn the urban guerrilla's actions. No matter the good intentions behind such actions there would be little winning of the people over to the cause.

[bcbm]

support would stabilize once the guerrillas proved they could strike at the heart of the bourgesie ruling class

this, once again, has never happened in 30 years of attempts by urban guerrilla groups. in italy it was actually the urban guerrilla that destroyed the workers movement.


i know cuba was a rural guerrilla campaign but that is not possible in alot of modern nations, though maybe possible in the US and Canada because of the rockies and american forests, but as there are no farmers etc they would have to resuply themselves with food and other essentials.no one is advocating a rural campaign anyway. communism is built by the working class as a whole, not by an armed minority.


we have never seen global guerrilla networks spanning britain france germany russia america canada italy spain portugal greece turkey isreal.in the period from (roughly and off the top of my head) 1975 to 1985 we had the angry brigade (uk), action direct (france), raf and j2m (germany), weatherman and black liberation army (usa), direct action (canada), red brigades, nap, etc (italy), eta and some maoist and anarchist armed groups (spain), n17 (greece), pkk (turkey) and the pflp (israel). funny you say global while leaving out huge chunks of the planet. various south american countries had guerrilla movements during this period as well, as did japan. so, yes, we actually have seen a global guerrilla network and it was an abysmal failure that destroyed the worker's movement in some countries or set it back dozens of years in others, to say nothing of the horrific attacks carried out. the urban guerrilla and the strategy of tension are proven historical failures. end of story.

[RED ARMY FACTION]

not if a propoganda network was established before the struggle began.
banks can finance alot of leaflets posters pirate radios

[bcbm]

not if a propoganda network was established before the struggle began.
banks can finance alot of leaflets posters pirate radios

why not use these resources to build a mass movement instead of an armed nuclei?

[RED ARMY FACTION]

yes but they were not united and were not capable of high level attacks or mantaining resistence
i am sure iran and all palestinian organisation would support the movement especially as isreal would be a big part of it

[RED ARMY FACTION]

because people wont be won over by talk lets face it, most are politically brainwashed from infancy
foco is the only clear way forward

[bcbm]

yes but they were not united

actually there were a lot of connections, training and international operations involving members of multiple groups.


were not capable of high level attacks

like the opec attack, plane hijackings, embassy takeovers and bombings, airport shootings, etc?


or mantaining resistence

yes because they operated without mass support, undertook actions that did nothing to build communism and tried to engage a far larger and better armed foe (the various european states) in a more or less frontal confrontation.


i am sure iran and all palestinian organisation would support the movement especially as isreal would be a big part of it

i doubt it.


because people wont be won over by talk lets face it, most are politically brainwashed from infancy

if they won't be won over by talking (and, you know, struggle) how the hell are they going to be won over by some idiots running around with guns?


foco is the only clear way forward

no the way forward is the same as it has always been: class struggle.

[RED ARMY FACTION]

what comrade?

[bcbm]

had to edit my post.

[RED ARMY FACTION]

so how would your revolution go?

[bcbm]

1. organize
2. occupy
3. ?????
4. profit!

[RED ARMY FACTION]

great thanks for sharing:rolleyes: lol

[bcbm]

you're welcome.

[9]

How anyone with any experience in the workplace and in real life could advocate such a thing is beyond me... though perhaps it has something to do with the fact that most people who advocate such things don't seem to have any experience as workers or in "real life" in general.
If you want to be the foremost tool of reactionaries everywhere, absolutely, organize a "communist" guerrilla group in a "western" imperialist country and carry out campaigns of violence/terrorism. That way, you can stick it to real Marxists everywhere by setting back the struggle of the working class by a century. Sounds like a good goal. :rolleyes:

[RED ARMY FACTION]

i am against foco comrade, i was merely trying to find out what fellow marxists think.
I believe us proletarians are the only ones who can relinquish the capitalist chains that keep us down.

[RED ARMY FACTION]

allthogh i sympathise with ches failed focos to a certain degree