Che=Murderer? - Che=Murderer?

[rock2russia]

Hello friends, but I have a trouble.

I was always Pro Che, and without a doubt Ches mission in life was to liberate Cuban and just people in general, but someone brought it to my attention that when he order the deaths of many of his fellow revolutoinaries for betrayal and much of Cuban military and government officials he is actually contradicting his values. This same person told me that to advertise Ches face is like putting hte face of a murderer on yourself. He also said it doesnt make sense that he wants to help the people of Cuba while murdering many of them who only found money and refuge from jobs in the Cuban military, where these people only wanted to support their families and themselves.

I believe that Che was a martyr and a true hero, but lately I have been quite confused by what was a Pro Che attitude to a confused state.

Input?

[Kapitan Andrey]

Hello, zemlyak!!!

Shit! I don't belive in this!!!

>I believe that Che was a martyr and a true hero<
THAT'S IT!!!

[Charred Phoenix]

He also said it doesnt make sense that he wants to help the people of Cuba while murdering many of them who only found money and refuge from jobs in the Cuban military, where these people only wanted to support their families and themselves.


They would have killed him too remember, they were the opposing army, they supported a capitalist regime that would fail without them, what choice did Che have?

[CubaVictoria1983]

I think that you are free to believe what you want, it's your choice, but if you asked me, I'd probably say there's no doubt he's a martyr and a true hero....mostly because he believed on the people and the true power of humanity. As for the mass murderer remark, ask your friend what he thinks of the US presidents. I believe they have killed a lot of innocent lives through the years, so is dangling an american flag also supporting murderers?

[ComradeJunichi]

I believe Hitler was God's son.

I'd say read about Che, and figure out yourself.

@CubaVictoria1983: Let's not stray away from topic. Che. Che killed people. Don't stop there, but question why?

[Wolfie]

I belive che was merciful. however he also kenw that to secure the defence against counter revolutions people who coulsn't be trusted had to be desposed of.

[Larissa]

If Che was a murdered, what is it left for Bush then?

Che was definitely not a murderer, try reading his bio by Jon ANderson and you will come to your own conclusions.

[rock2russia]

Oh to those who claim to read more, I have already done extensive reading on Che, but I am seeking your opinions.

Lets not compare Che, a true humanitarian to present American politics, for Che is far too respectable.

As for the murderer issue, it seemed to make sense to me. It is naive to feel every man in the Cuban military was in full support of capitalism and Batista, and there were undoubtedly many who were only in military for the reason I previously stated: to survive in a cruel world.

As for those who are completely anti capitalists as well, many of us (myself included) live in United States, and for us to say captilism is the devil while contributing to the system is unperceived. Afterall, we are only part of the problem if we are not part of the solution.

[YerbaMateJ]

Quote: from rock2russia on 3:22 am on April 1, 2003
Oh to those who claim to read more, I have already done extensive reading on Che, but I am seeking your opinions.

Lets not compare Che, a true humanitarian to present American politics, for Che is far too respectable.

As for the murderer issue, it seemed to make sense to me. It is naive to feel every man in the Cuban military was in full support of capitalism and Batista, and there were undoubtedly many who were only in military for the reason I previously stated: to survive in a cruel world.

As for those who are completely anti capitalists as well, many of us (myself included) live in United States, and for us to say captilism is the devil while contributing to the system is unperceived. Afterall, we are only part of the problem if we are not part of the solution.

Thank you. That is how I feel. I feel as long as I am still living in the United States of America, I am---however much I disdain capitalism--- indeed part of the problem. As long as I pay taxes and consume here, I am contributing to the capitalistic machine. No matter how much I love Che. No matter how much I blabber on the Che Lives website. I am part of the problem. I will not tell other Americans that because they are in different situations. They have kids---etc. And I cannot judge others. I'm in charge of only me.

I challenged one of my "social problems" teachers a week or so ago. I suggested that "we" are part of the problem if we are contributing to this imperialistic, sick nation. All he could do was get defensive. "I'm not a part of the problem!" he says, "I'm a part of the solution!" he continued. And when I suggested that I should get out of this country he said negatively, "Where would you go? The system reaches everywhere."

Cop out. He thinks that just because he is a peace protester that he was going to make me feel like shit for even suggesting that our participation in imperialism might contribute to the warmongering. Maybe it was too painful for him to deal with. He is not a bad man and does teach facts in his classes. Again, I cannot judge another. I just wish he would've engaged me in some more intelligent dialogue rather than get all defensive.

And about Che---he was a soldier. Just like any other soldier in war. I think what you might be dealing with here is Che's unique paradox. He was a gentle man in so many ways. Poetic. Intellectual. He wasn't some Rambo figure. He was a doctor that tried to cure lepars. He was sickly himself all of his life. And like the Che quote Larissa has on her signature about Revolutionaries being driven by deep feelings of love---it is true in Che's case. YET there was the other side of the coin:

"...Hatred as an element of the struggle: a relentless hatred of the enemy, impelling us above and beyond the natural limitations that man is heir to, and transforming him into an effective, violent, seductive, and cold killing machine. Our soldiers must be thus: a people without hatred cannot vanquish a brutal enemy...."

(CHE)

Che had to hold both love and hate in balance. Perhaps that is why we are so fascinated with this incredible man.

YMj

[onepunchmachinegun]

ComradeJunichi you're talking about another persons who are straying away from the subject...

But tell me what Hitler being Gods son has to do with whether Che Guevara was a mass murderer?

[shakermaker]

Originally posted by Kapitan [email protected] 31 2003, 05:53 AM
I believe that Che was a martyr and a true hero<
THAT&#39;S IT&#33;&#33;&#33;
I agree&#33;

[FistFullOfSteel]

same here

[ComradeRobertRiley]

well said YerbaMateJ

[Danton]

In war there are no muderers or murdered only willing combatants. Without firing squads there is no revolution.

[Alejandro C]

so far this reminds me of the indictment of coln. kurtz in apocalypse now. i think brando says something like, "they have accused me of murder.... accusing a man of murder in this war is insane. they are insane."

but on the issue... each man did have a summary trial before they were executed. i can&#39;t believe che would kill someone if he didn&#39;t think they disserved it. i doubt he was killing those who were in the military just to escape the harsh reality of the cuban world at that time. you have to understand the corruption that was involved in cuba at that time. hell, by that point corruption had been a way of life for almost 50 years. you can&#39;t just tell people that things are going to change. you have to show them the consequences of raping cuba.

i am proud of che for doing what is right.

[Fidelbrand]

Ass-holes who betray the revolution and impede the process.... deserved to be killed.... no doubts about that. :blink:

Che & Fidel cldn&#39;t afford to have mutha-fuckers to shake their revolutionary plans for the PEOPLE&#33;