Anti-Semitism

[Lodestar]

Now, I know that antisemitism can sometimes be a tricky issue, particularly because many on the right have managed to successfully dupe the general public into believing that anti-zionism automatically equates to antisemitism. Such nonsense is a politically fueled attempt to demonize the left as hateful, when it actually trivializes incidents of ACTUAL antisemitism in which Jews or people of Jewish backgrounds are attacked or persecuted merely for their immutable ethnic identity.


According to many news sources (some I would trust, and some I wouldn't...) antisemitism is on the rise globally. A lot of it can be attributed to the actions of the State of Israel. Now, the outrage at the treacherous actions of the Zionist state is justified and welcome to all those sane enough to recognize the human dignity of the Palestinian people. That being said, it cannot justify hatred against Jewish people as a whole; and yet I find that many people, from different parts of the political spectrum, don't bat an eyelash when hateful statements targetting Jews for the mere fact that they are Jews are uttered, (often by far-right Muslims, though a few decades ago, it was almost exclusively far-right Christians)

Here in the West, Islamophobia has mostly taken the place of antisemitism; Jews have moved into the Middle Classes and have been emancipated from the injustices of pre-Enlightenment Christendom for nearly two centuries: they're no longer outcasts and pariahs divorced or segregated from society. Many Jews no longer practice their faith as their ancestors did, and so outwardly, most Jews cannot even be distinguished from non-Jews. This isn't the case with Muslims, and reactionary anti-Islamic propaganda has indeed painted them as the new scapegoat for the far-right.

While I welcome cooperation with national liberation movements and nationalists from Arab countries, I often find that their outrage at Israel's actions, and the actions of other imperialists, is not repeated when an Islamist, Qutbist, Wahhabist, or Ayatollah calls for the death of the Jews as a people and nation, or preaches that the End of Days shall come when all Jews will be subject to divine punishment at the hands of Muslims.

Is it inaccurate to say that because of the fact that right-wing Zionists have managed to muddle the actual definition of antisemitism by conflating it with legitimate criticism of the Zionist state, and thus trivialized ACTUAL antisemitism, causing it to be largely ignored by the public? Sometimes, I feel that is so.

Does anyone else feel this way? How do you feel about the rise of antisemitism? What should be done?

[New Tet]

If only it could all be boiled down to one single problem demanding one single solution!

Two important causes of Antisemitism and its obverse, Zionism and ethnic/political nationalism, are the condition of world-wide economic injustice and an equally world-wide ruling class that use those social abominations in order to divide their victims whenever necessary.

Cliche as it may sound, a thorough study of post-WW 1 Germany gives us a pretty good idea about how Antisemitism evolved in modern times and a reasonable prognosis of its malignancy.

Fascism is more a threat now that in Hitler's time. It has learned to don better disguises.

[Lyev]

Like any other prejudice it presupposes that every Jew/black/Muslim etc. is exactly the same, and they're all one collective group. Of course, the reality is everyone is an individual and should be treated thus.

Maybe a way of trying to combat these accusations of antisemitism is to try and distinguish very clearly between religion and state. I think it should probably be seen as totally incidental that Israel are a deeply Jewish country. Ultimately, they're involvement in Palestine is because they're greedy imperialists; not because they're Jewish.

[Yehuda Stern]

I agree with your analysis. That is another reason why Israel is a deathtrap to the Jews living in it, and why it endangers rather than ensures the safety of world Jewry.

[Lodestar]

A fellow Jewish Communist, I presume?

[TC]

Fascism is more a threat now that in Hitler's time.

Holocaust survivors beg to differ...

[Yehuda Stern]

A fellow Jewish Communist, I presume? Yes.

[Lodestar]

Holocaust survivors beg to differ...

National Socialism is not a threat today (thankfully) however, fascistic ideologies besides Nazism still abound. You have Christian Reconstructionists, White Nationalists, Islamists, Qutbists, Corporatists, National Syndicalists, all sorts of Right-Authoritarian ideologies across the Less Developed Countries...

[Anaximander]

Some observations:

While criticisms of the state of Israel are proper, especially due to the plight of the Palestinians, "anti-imperialist" theoreticians have taken the anti-semitic bait. In the name of "anti-imperialism" many socialist groups have sided openly with groups that conflate class, religious and ethnic tension and exploit it for political gain, such as Hamas, Hezbollah, and the state of Iran.

At anti-war demonstrations, and especially at the recent G-20 protests, where there were large anti-imperialist blocs, I noticed a few people with signs noting their Jewish heritage, while proclaiming their anti-Zionism. It is as if socialist parties in the U.S. demand we separate the "good" Jews from the "bad" Jews.

In my opinion, preoccupation with anti-imperialism precludes class analysis, and the theoreticians of anti-imperialism are forced to rely on racial and ethnic analysis, which ultimately forces conclusions that are reactionary.

[Sasha]

the english version will be hard to find but i encourage you to read the excelent book; the end of judaism, an ethical tradition betrayed by the dutch author hajo meyer (http://www.bookmasters.com/marktplc/02104judaism.htm)

[The Ungovernable Farce]

It's a topic I find interesting. I think there's a lot to be said about the way that Zionist ideology actually agrees with anti-Semitic ideology on many points - they both presume that "the Jewish people" is a meaningful category, as opposed to "workers who happen to be Jewish" and "employers who happen to be Jewish" being two distinct groups with distinct interests; they both identify this "Jewish community" with the state of Israel and presume that all Jews are somehow connected with this nation-state; and they both believe that it is fundamentally impossible for Jews and gentiles to live peacefully alongside each other (if they could, then there'd be no reason at all for diaspora Jews to move to Israel). The only real difference is that anti-Semites say this is because there's something wrong with the Jews and Zionists think there's something wrong with the gentiles.
The idea that anti-Zionism=anti-Semitism is undermined still further when you look at the long history of co-operation between Zionists and anti-Semites, such as the way that Richard Nixon was simultaneously one of the most viciously Jew-hating presidents and one of the most pro-Israeli, or the modern-day phenomenon of Christian fundamentalists who think that Jews are hellbound for rejecting Christ but still strongly support Israel.
Of course, none of this means that anti-Semitism doesn't still raise its ugly head sometimes in the Palestine solidarity movement, and we should show no tolerance when it does - both because the existence of anti-Semitism makes it easier for Zionists to weaken and discredit the movement, and because racists are fucking scum in their own right, regardless of tactical considerations.
Here's a piece on anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism (http://sheffoccupied.blogspot.com/2009/03/jewish-occupation-activists-respond-to.html) produced by Jewish activists involved with one of the Gaza solidarity occupations earlier this year (which I may or may not have been involved with helping to write).

[Random Precision]

It's a topic I find interesting. I think there's a lot to be said about the way that Zionist ideology actually agrees with anti-Semitic ideology on many points - they both presume that "the Jewish people" is a meaningful category, as opposed to "workers who happen to be Jewish" and "employers who happen to be Jewish" being two distinct groups with distinct interests; they both identify this "Jewish community" with the state of Israel and presume that all Jews are somehow connected with this nation-state; and they both believe that it is fundamentally impossible for Jews and gentiles to live peacefully alongside each other (if they could, then there'd be no reason at all for diaspora Jews to move to Israel). The only real difference is that anti-Semites say this is because there's something wrong with the Jews and Zionists think there's something wrong with the gentiles.

Oh it goes even further than that. The founders of Zionism had an ideology that could almost be described as "Jewish anti-Semitism". Leo Pinsker, the founder of Hovevei Zion, wrote that the Jews were "parasites, who are a burden to the rest of the population, and can never secure their favor". And the first national poet of Israel Hayim Bialik in the poem City of Slaughter compared Jewish pogrom victims to "roaches" and said that they "died like dogs".

And of course Zionism aims to give anti-Semitism what it wants, namely, the disappearance of the Jews.

[Yehuda Stern]

RP is right:


Who told a Berlin audience in March 1912 that “each country can absorb only a limited number of Jews, if she doesn’t want disorders in her stomach. Germany already has too many Jews”?


No, not Adolf Hitler but Chaim Weizmann, later president of the World Zionist Organization and later still the first president of the state of Israel.


And where might you find the following assertion, originally composed in 1917 but republished as late as 1936: “The Jew is a caricature of a normal, natural human being, both physically and spiritually. As an individual in society he revolts and throws off the harness of social obligation, knows no order nor discipline”?


Not in Der Stürmer but in the organ of the Zionist youth organization, Hashomer Hatzair.


As the above quoted statement reveals, Zionism itself encouraged and exploited self-hatred in the Diaspora. It started from the assumption that anti-Semitism was inevitable and even in a sense justified so long as Jews were outside the land of Israel.


It is true that only an extreme lunatic fringe of Zionism went so far as to offer to join the war on Germany’s side in 1941, in the hope of establishing “the historical Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, and bound by a treaty with the German Reich”. Unfortunately this was the group which the present Prime Minister of Israel chose to join.


The truth is simply that working class revolutionaries in Palestine continue the revolutionary tradition of Jews in Eastern Europe, while Zionism continues the tradition of the pogromists.

[9]

While criticisms of the state of Israel are proper, especially due to the plight of the Palestinians, "anti-imperialist" theoreticians have taken the anti-semitic bait.
This is a gross generalization to say the least. Of course, there are some "anti-imperialist theoreticians" with anti-Semitic prejudices, just as there are some "theoreticians" from virtually all tendencies among the left and political ideologies in general who happen personally to hold racist, sexist, or otherwise bigoted sentiments. I would hope, however, that no one here would argue that anti-imperialism is inherently anti-Semitic, as this is unequivocally false. That there are some bigots amongst the "anti-imperialist" tendencies should certainly not serve to discredit the anti-imperialist tendencies themselves; rather, the individuals who hold such prejudices should be discredited as a result of their own bigotry. I could say that there are Left Communists who hold sexist views - that "Left Communists have taken the sexist bait"; assuming such an allegation is true amongst some Left Communists, should this discredit Left Communism? Or alternatively, should it discredit the individuals/groups within Left Communism who hold sexist prejudices?


In the name of "anti-imperialism" many socialist groups have sided openly with groups that conflate class, religious and ethnic tension and exploit it for political gain, such as Hamas, Hezbollah, and the state of Iran.Yes, this is correct. In a conflict between an imperialist state and an oppressed nation, communists take the side of the oppressed nation. Therefore, communists support(ed) the recent victory of Hamas in Gaza and of Hizbu'llah in Lebanon in 2006 against the imperialist state of Israel. Should the US or the state of Israel attack the state of Iran, communists will take the side of the state of Iran. This does not mean that those who take this line are supportive of the reactionary politics of the governments of said oppressed nations. In any event, what this has to do with anti-Semitism is more than unclear.


At anti-war demonstrations, and especially at the recent G-20 protests, where there were large anti-imperialist blocs, I noticed a few people with signs noting their Jewish heritage, while proclaiming their anti-Zionism. It is as if socialist parties in the U.S. demand we separate the "good" Jews from the "bad" Jews.This claim is absolutely unfounded.
Presumably you are referring to the "Jewish anti-Zionist" groups, which - I assure you - have nothing to do with the "demand[s]" of "[anti-imperialist] socialist parties in the U.S.". On the contrary, such groups are largely a reaction to the anti-Semitic Zionist/pro-imperialist propaganda that paints world Jewry as a homogeneous bloc of Zionists, with whom "solidarity" can only be expressed through widespread support for Zionist imperialism and denunciation of anything else as "anti-Semitism", in complete and utter ignorance of the intrinsically anti-Semitic nature of Zionism, and of the proud Jewish history of anti-Zionism, opposition to oppression in all forms, and active participation in revolutionary working class movements.
Therefore, the intention of most of the "Jewish anti-Zionist" groups to which you are referring is to counter the common misconception of "all Jews as Zionists" that is kept alive primarily by Zionism and its pro-imperialist apologists.


In my opinion, preoccupation with anti-imperialism precludes class analysis, and the theoreticians of anti-imperialism are forced to rely on racial and ethnic analysis, which ultimately forces conclusions that are reactionary.So your observations about anti-Semitism are all limited to theoretical disputes with another tendency on the left? That seems a rather blinkered approach to the matter.

[blake 3:17]

I pretty much agree with you Apikoros. We do have to be wary of any signs of anti Jewish sentiment in our movements. It's pretty easy where I am -- anti Zionist Jews have been in the forefront of Palestinian solidarity work. I have been involved in a particular Jewish community group (I'm not Jewish) and have been accused back handedly of antisemitism. The person who did so is blatantly racist against Arabs, so the accusation was easy to dismiss.

I think the important point is that we make it clear we are for a just peace in the Middle East and that we support the Palestinian people's right to exist and determine their own future.

Moderate and right wing Zionist groups have tried to disrupt forums and events here in Ontario supportive of the Palestinian people. They seem to think we're in bed with Islamic fundamentalism. One of the strengths of the BDS campaign is that it comes from the Palestinian secular labour and civil society movements.

[Die Rote Fahne]

"The Tsarist police, in alliance with the landowners and the capitalists, organized pogroms against the Jews. The landowners and capitalists tried to divert the hatred of the workers and peasants, who were tortured by want, against the Jews. . . . Only the most ignorant and down-trodden people can believe the lies and slander that are spread about the Jews. . . . It is not the Jews who are the enemies of the working people. The enemies of the workers are the capitalists of all countries. Among the Jews there are working people, and they form the majority. They are our brothers, who, like us, are oppressed by capital; they are our comrades in the struggle for socialism. Among the Jews there are kulaks, exploiters, and capitalists, just as there are among the Russians, and among people of all nations . . . Rich Jews, like rich Russians, and the rich in all countries, are in alliance to oppress, crush, rob, and disunite the workers . . . Shame on accursed Tsarism, which tortured and persecuted the Jews. Shame on those who foment hatred towards the Jews, who foment hatred towards other nations." - Vladimir Lenin

Yes, I always use this quote.

[jake williams]

Frankly I have a lot of sympathy for a group of people that is systematically denied access to the rest of the world, or education, and whose only exposure to Jews is through the self-proclaimed "Jewish state", particularly through that state's tanks and soldiers on their streets and in their homes (not even to mention the airstrikes). I think anti-Semitism in the Palestinian liberation/solidarity movement is a real concern, but I think the only way to fight that anti-Semitism is in the process of struggle and solidarity. I think any talk of "zero tolerance" is basically nonsense. Totally refusing to act with people with anti-Semitic feelings means giving up on Palestinian solidarity. In fact, it means giving up on making a serious attempt to actually get rid of that very anti-Semitism.


ed:

I might add that while I hear a lot about "zero-tolerance with anti-Semitism", I hear very rarely about "zero-tolerance with imperialism".

[Revy]

I think that, also, there is sometimes this rhetoric which de-emphasizes the role of the US in its own policy-making. In an appeal to American nationalism, it is sometimes said that the wars are being waged for Israel, or that Israel controls the USA. The US imperialists make their own decisions, their bloody ambitions are greater than being merely a lapdog of Israel.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I think that, also, there is sometimes this rhetoric which de-emphasizes the role of the US in its own policy-making. In an appeal to American nationalism, it is sometimes said that the wars are being waged for Israel, or that Israel controls the USA. The US imperialists make their own decisions, their bloody ambitions are greater than being merely a lapdog of Israel.

Well more than that, I'd say that it's Israel that is the US's dog: an attack dog. Nobody ever says that the Egyptian or Colombian lobby is controlling US policy in the middle east or Latin America... most people realize that the US gives these nations arms, money, training, and a free pass to attack other countries in these regions because it is in the US's imperial interests to have these regional powers to keep things in (Uncle Sam's) order. It's the same with Israel except that Israel is an active settler-state and much more aggressive militarily than Egypt. But in Colombia, the US had the government there bomb across its border and encourages Colombia to rattle its saber at Venezuela and other countries the US wants to put pressure on.

Israel is a unique case because of Zionism and because of it's brutal ongoing occupations, but the US supports Israel out of US imperial interests.

[A.R.Amistad]

National Socialism is not a threat today (thankfully) however, fascistic ideologies besides Nazism still abound. You have Christian Reconstructionists, White Nationalists, Islamists, Qutbists, Corporatists, National Syndicalists, all sorts of Right-Authoritarian ideologies across the Less Developed Countries...

I wouldn't go so far as to say that. Where I come from neo-Nazism is on the rise as a response to Obama's election. Swastika toting skinheads seem to be everywhere in my neighborhood.

Its funny that right wing Christians support Israel just because they hope it will bring on the apocalypse (Jews in control of Jerusalem) when in fact they are just as antisemitic as the Nazis (who, contrary to popular belief, did and still do support right wing Christianity on a majority scale) I mean look at what that asshole Rev. Hagee said about how the Holocaust was a punishment from God on the Jews. And they call us antisemites for wanting an end to oppression in Palestine...lame.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Tbh there is very little Anti semitism that I have noticed the only thing I have seen in real life are people who think they run the world and others who watch too much southpark

[Atrus]

The only Anti-Semitism I've noticed anywhere around here is when I'm being called "anti-semitic" by Zionists because I'm so strongly anti-Zionism. The irony being that my Great-Grandfather was a Jew who fled the holocaust and came to England.
Although, having said that, I've just come out of the Education system, and am concerned by the word "Jew" being used in much the same fashion as the word "gay" increasingly, which seems to be a step backwards. Both these casual forms of discrimination need to be ended.

[scarletghoul]

Yes, casual anti-semitism, even if its lighthearted and as a joke, is definately on the rise here. People often joke about Jews, and there's not a lot of hatred but it could turn into such if the attitudes develop. I know a couple of people of Jewish descent who don't like people knowing about it, because of the culture of light anti-semitism
Of course it's nothing like the discrimination faced by blacks and muslims atm

[Lodestar]

Frankly I have a lot of sympathy for a group of people that is systematically denied access to the rest of the world, or education, and whose only exposure to Jews is through the self-proclaimed "Jewish state", particularly through that state's tanks and soldiers on their streets and in their homes (not even to mention the airstrikes). I think anti-Semitism in the Palestinian liberation/solidarity movement is a real concern, but I think the only way to fight that anti-Semitism is in the process of struggle and solidarity. I think any talk of "zero tolerance" is basically nonsense. Totally refusing to act with people with anti-Semitic feelings means giving up on Palestinian solidarity. In fact, it means giving up on making a serious attempt to actually get rid of that very anti-Semitism.


ed:

I might add that while I hear a lot about "zero-tolerance with anti-Semitism", I hear very rarely about "zero-tolerance with imperialism".


Comrade,

While I agree with you in practice (anti-imperialism should certainly be at the forefront of our concerns) how can I work or coordinate with people who cannot overcome their hatred for my identity? How can I stand in solidarity with people who loathe the very fact that I am alive? I'm not saying I reciprocate their hatred (I pity antisemites), only that it becomes difficult to stand together with people who do not share your ideology, only your concerns about one particular issue (the alignment of Zionism with imperialism) and hate you regardless of your sympathy or solidarity with their plight?

I should add, I have not yet met a Palestinian who hates Jews, only Zionism, though of course, such Palestinians certainly exist (and I've only met a few Palestinians). I do not mean to derail the topic, but as someone who is of Jewish origin (that's my identity, and it's immutable) it would be tremendously difficult to find any acceptance or friendliness among those who foment antisemitism.

I can stand in solidarity with Palestinians in their struggle against the Zionist state. I cannot stand in solidarity with people who cannot overcome their hatred for others' immutable characteristics; race, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, upbringing...etc.

It is precisely because I oppose such irrational, unjust, callous hatreds that I oppose Zionism in the first place!

[Yehuda Stern]

jammoe,

Let me first of all say that you're mostly right and I feel the same about anti-Semitism from Palestinians - I despise it but I understand the causes for it. But I feel like you're taking this issue too lightly, and maybe this is just because this is an issue of special concern to me as a revolutionary in Occupied Palestine.

I understand where you're coming from, but at least as far as the ISL is concerned, we may have never used the phrase "zero tolerance for imperialism" but we have certainly made clear that that is our point of view many times. I agree that revolutionaries don't have the luxury of refusing to attend any event attended by anti-Semites. Indeed, we have been to demonstrations where our presence caused a conflict to varying degrees over this.

On the other hand, I think it's important to emphasize that we will not tolerate anti-Semitism in the revolutionary party and that we seek to fight it whenever it rears its ugly head. We always call for a Palestinian workers state in which Jews can live as equals. The LRP, a US group with which we are currently holding discussions, always talks about fighting not just the rise of anti-Arabism but also anti-Semitism.

To us, it's important to fight any reactionary idea in the workers movement. Anti-Semitism is one more, and one of the more vile ones to boot.

[jake williams]

To us, it's important to fight any reactionary idea in the workers movement.
Yehuda: I mostly agree with you, and in retrospect I think I did treat it rather lightly. I think I did so because I get extremely frustrated with a tendency of some on the "left" to retreat to a "safe" position of opposing anti-Semitism, because basically we're all opposed to anti-Semitism and saying that carries no personal risk - even at the expense of taking a strong position against Israeli state crimes, anti-Arab racism and Jewish chauvinism. People have this radical, absolutist position on anti-Semitism, and obviously anti-Semitism is a real problem (if you're involved with serious Arab solidarity, you certainly see it, I know it's a real problem), but don't have any similar position on a whole plethora of other issues.

Apologies for the messy phrasing; it's a complex issue.

What I will say is that I think a "zero-tolerance" position is antithetical to a serious commitment to fighting it. If you just tell people with some problematic view to fuck off, you're going to solidify their view. This is especially true of people who believe that, for example, feminist views are something held by a liberal elite who hates them as ordinary working class people. There's a distorted sort of class consciousness to it routinely. The way to solve that is to incorporate people into struggle, where, in my experience, they tend to learn on their own that things like sexism or anti-Semitism aren't okay.



Comrade,

While I agree with you in practice (anti-imperialism should certainly be at the forefront of our concerns) how can I work or coordinate with people who cannot overcome their hatred for my identity? How can I stand in solidarity with people who loathe the very fact that I am alive? I'm not saying I reciprocate their hatred (I pity antisemites), only that it becomes difficult to stand together with people who do not share your ideology, only your concerns about one particular issue (the alignment of Zionism with imperialism) and hate you regardless of your sympathy or solidarity with their plight?

I should add, I have not yet met a Palestinian who hates Jews, only Zionism, though of course, such Palestinians certainly exist (and I've only met a few Palestinians). I do not mean to derail the topic, but as someone who is of Jewish origin (that's my identity, and it's immutable) it would be tremendously difficult to find any acceptance or friendliness among those who foment antisemitism.

I can stand in solidarity with Palestinians in their struggle against the Zionist state. I cannot stand in solidarity with people who cannot overcome their hatred for others' immutable characteristics; race, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, upbringing...etc.

It is precisely because I oppose such irrational, unjust, callous hatreds that I oppose Zionism in the first place!
Well first I think it's important to say that, as far as I can tell at all, there are very few anti-Semites with a deep, serious hatred of Jews as such. This is awkward language which might imply I don't nonetheless take their views seriously, which I certainly do.

The reason I think it's important to make the distinction is that if you really do hate some group of people "just because", you're not going to change your mind, but if it honestly comes from a view that "those people" (often very few of whom you've actually personally met) are objectively oppressing you, there's a lot more space to change your mind. I'm well aware that it's not at all fun to be around anti-Semites, homophobes etc. The people who a lot of us really like being around are cultured, sophisticated, politically correct academics and the like. But as I said, the way to fix those problems is not to just hang out with our own cool friends who never say anything we fundamentally disagree with.

If you can't personally be around, much less work with, anti-Semites, that's totally understandable. But I think as a movement we have a profound obligation to, because people with those views are such a significant part of the international working class.

[Lodestar]

Yehuda: I mostly agree with you, and in retrospect I think I did treat it rather lightly. I think I did so because I get extremely frustrated with a tendency of some on the "left" to retreat to a "safe" position of opposing anti-Semitism, because basically we're all opposed to anti-Semitism and saying that carries no personal risk - even at the expense of taking a strong position against Israeli state crimes, anti-Arab racism and Jewish chauvinism. People have this radical, absolutist position on anti-Semitism, and obviously anti-Semitism is a real problem (if you're involved with serious Arab solidarity, you certainly see it, I know it's a real problem), but don't have any similar position on a whole plethora of other issues.

Apologies for the messy phrasing; it's a complex issue.

What I will say is that I think a "zero-tolerance" position is antithetical to a serious commitment to fighting it. If you just tell people with some problematic view to fuck off, you're going to solidify their view. This is especially true of people who believe that, for example, feminist views are something held by a liberal elite who hates them as ordinary working class people. There's a distorted sort of class consciousness to it routinely. The way to solve that is to incorporate people into struggle, where, in my experience, they tend to learn on their own that things like sexism or anti-Semitism aren't okay.



Well first I think it's important to say that, as far as I can tell at all, there are very few anti-Semites with a deep, serious hatred of Jews as such. This is awkward language which might imply I don't nonetheless take their views seriously, which I certainly do.

The reason I think it's important to make the distinction is that if you really do hate some group of people "just because", you're not going to change your mind, but if it honestly comes from a view that "those people" (often very few of whom you've actually personally met) are objectively oppressing you, there's a lot more space to change your mind. I'm well aware that it's not at all fun to be around anti-Semites, homophobes etc. The people who a lot of us really like being around are cultured, sophisticated, politically correct academics and the like. But as I said, the way to fix those problems is not to just hang out with our own cool friends who never say anything we fundamentally disagree with.

If you can't personally be around, much less work with, anti-Semites, that's totally understandable. But I think as a movement we have a profound obligation to, because people with those views are such a significant part of the international working class.


Comrade, again, I agree with you.

It's not so much that I would mind working with anti-semites (though I certainly would not in any way like to or prefer to), it's simply that my presence, as a person of Jewish origins, among antisemites would not be one that would likely receive a warm welcome among a small minority of anti-Zionists.

[synthesis]

This might be a little off-topic, but I think it is relevant to the issue.

My hypothesis is that historically, anti-Semitism can be differentiated from other forms of ethnic discrimination in that it is generally a product of the perceived threat of Jewish elites to "national" (white and Islamic) elites.

The conflict is then transmitted to non-elites, where it becomes more like other forms of discrimination in that it replaces class consciousness and divides society on the basis of ethnicity.

Both Zionism and anti-Zionism (and the latter's anti-Semitic drudges) fit neatly within this paradigm. The conflict is a result of power struggles among elites, and as always, it's the regular people who suffer for it.

If we can encourage the perception of the conflict as that of elites attempting to secure hegemony at the expense of "their people," we may be able to kill two birds with one stone. Class consciousness and peace in the Middle East go hand in hand.

[Kayser_Soso]

It is not only coincidence that some "left-wing" folks have fallen for repeating anti-semitic memes. There are groups on the right, as well as populist extremist groups who deliberately attempt to "slip" in their anti-semitic propaganda under the guise of pro-Palestinian ideology. Also, one should be suspicious of those who tend to hammer constantly on about the "Jewsh lobby", or if they frame the world's problems as being caused by "international bankers". The latter term was a euphemism for Jews in the early 20th century. Nowadays some people pick it up, not even knowing that, nor holding any conscious anti-semitic ideals- but by transmitting these memes, they are unwittingly helping real anti-semites gain legitimacy on the mainstream.

[9]

I've been hesitant about taking the time to even attempt a proper response to this thread because the issue of anti-Semitism is so incredibly complicated that it is hard to even know where to begin. While often not particularly helpful due to subjectivity, the only way I can really think to get into this issue is by starting with personal experience.
Being Jewish myself, and having spent the past thirteen or fourteen years of my life in a place where there are very few other Jews, I have experienced anti-Semitism on numerous occasions. Where I went to school, "Jew" and "Jewish" were popular generic insults which I heard on a daily basis (I think someone in this thread might have even already touched on this) used in the same way as "retard(ed)" or "fag/gay" or "****" (e.g. "what a Jew" or "he's such a Jew" to describe an unpleasant person, or, "this is so Jewish" to describe an unpleasant situation) in addition to occasional harassment and threats.
In the past three or four years since I've been out of school, the only time I've encountered any kind of blatant anti-Semitism (excluding the occasional offhand remark or the random encounter with some idiot dudebro spouting shit about "J00ish-masonic-conspiracies!!1") was a series of several incidents in which my car was vandalized (with clearly anti-Semitic inscriptions) while it was parked outside of my workplace in a manner that portrayed beyond any doubt that whoever did it knew who I was and did it because of the fact that I'm a Jew.
The discrimination I've faced as a result of being a Jew has been entirely different and decidedly less problematic/destructive than the discrimination I've faced as a result of the fact that I am a woman, or that which black and Latino friends of mine have faced as a result of their skin color. This is one of many hugely complicating factors surrounding matters of modern anti-Semitism in the West. To elaborate, it is no longer a systemic problem of institutionalized discrimination in the West. Which is to say, Jews in the West are no longer victims of economic and systematic social disadvantage as a result of being Jewish. Obviously, this is not the case with other forms of discrimination (racism, sexism).
Jews in the West (or certainly in the US, I can't really speak to the UK) have been "accepted" as being "White" for about a half century now; I have never had the experience of having my "race" listed as "Hebrew" on documentation like my grandparents did (who, incidentally, were not "Hebrew" at all, but rather, were Yiddish-speaking Eastern European Jews like many so-called "Hebrews" at that time); I have always been "white" and my "Jewishness" has always been secondary. Which brings me to one of the points that jammoe made:



...I get extremely frustrated with a tendency of some on the "left" to retreat to a "safe" position of opposing anti-Semitism, because basically we're all opposed to anti-Semitism and saying that carries no personal risk - even at the expense of taking a strong position against Israeli state crimes, anti-Arab racism and Jewish chauvinism. People have this radical, absolutist position on anti-Semitism, and obviously anti-Semitism is a real problem (if you're involved with serious Arab solidarity, you certainly see it, I know it's a real problem), but don't have any similar position on a whole plethora of other issues.

I think this is largely true, at least of the situation in the US. Which is not to downplay or brush aside instances of anti-Semitism such as those mentioned in the OP and, as others have said, anti-Semitism should certainly not be tolerated on any level within revolutionary parties and organizations. But aside from that, it is hard to see what can be done to further combat anti-Semitism at this point. I mean, in many ways - as mentioned, more or less, in the quote - opposition to anti-Semitism is the "token" opposition to discrimination in the West. I suspect that a rather small percent of the Western population holds seriously anti-Semitic views, particularly in comparison to the percentage that holds seriously racist and sexist views. So in that sense, combating anti-Semitism has been far more successful than combating racism and sexism. The problem, of course, is that many people who appear to take an active stance to "fight" discrimination against a "group" that, by and large, no longer suffers the consequences of systemic, systematic, or institutionalized discrimination, frequently just use it to serve as a sort of anti-racist front or posturing. White Westerners don't have to worry about jeopardizing their "white privilege" by taking a strong stance against anti-Semitism; there isn't the "privilege versus oppression" dichotomy any longer between non-Jewish white Westerners and Jews which exists between white Westerners and people of color, or between men and women. So because there is no personal risk involved for white Western gentiles, it is easy to pay lip service to "anti-discrimination" by showcasing opposition to anti-Semitism while failing to address otherwise racist or sexist sentiments which are rampant, and it is very common to see this in the West. And this is, more or less, what I think the portion of jammoe's post which I quoted was getting at.
I will not even touch on the anti-Semitism which is rife in the conclusions/positions and general outlook of Zionism itself, as I think Ungovernable Farce, Random Precision and Yehuda all did a fine job of that, and I don't want to make this any longer than it has to be.
There is no doubt, however, that anti-Semitic sentiments exist amongst certain elements of the Palestinian liberation movement within the Western left. This anti-Semitism is yet another form (although much in line with some of Zionism's sentiments, ironically) because it is centered entirely around Israel, and there frequently is a failure to differentiate Jews from Zionists (much as the Zionists do), wherein "Jew" often just becomes a synonym for "Zionist" or "Israeli" and hatred toward Zionist imperialism becomes hatred toward world Jewry. I honestly don't know what the solution to this is, and it may be that there isn't a solution. Of course, I think revolutionary parties, organizations, and individuals in general need to express and reinforce their resolute opposition to this; I do not think for a second that it should be allowed to slide opportunistically for the sake of popularity. But beyond that, I really don't have anything to offer in the way of solutions, in spite of this monstrosity of a text wall I've created. I think this form of anti-Semitism - and indeed, probably most every remaining form of anti-Semitism - will continue to be a factor as long as Zionism remains.

[Yehuda Stern]

I agree with what jammoe and Apikoros have said. I would like to add a few things, though.

First of all, I find it hard to believe, given the prejudice I have received from non-Israelis and what Apikoros wrote in her post, that there is absolutely no institutional discrimination of Jews.

In here Jews who immigrated from Russia in the last 20 or so years are routinely discriminated against, even though they are white Jews. Recently a research conducted by an Israeli newspaper concluded that if you belong to that group, you have a significantly lower chance of finding an apartment or getting a job.

Of course, according to the same research other groups, notably Arabs, had it far worse. But I find it hard to believe that prejudice is not somehow reflected in disriminatory conduct by the state and ruling class. I find little reason to believe in the existence of platonic racism.

About leftists who do not differentiate between Jews and Zionists: there are obviously plenty of those as well. I also find those who argue that Israel controls America to be at least borderline anti-Semites. But then I think it's also dangerous to claim that anti-Semitism is solely due to the existence of Israel. Some people love Israel and hate Jews; just look at the evangelical right-wing. As much as I would like to blame anti-Semitism solely on the Zionists, history shows that anti-Semitism, as well as any racism, sexism, etc. is an inseparable part of capitalism.

As for what can be done about anti-Semitism, since Jews are either a relatively privileged minority or direct oppressors in most of the world, the ball is in their court. The more Jews break from Zionism and join the ranks of the proletarian revolution, especially in Palestine, the more will we be able to combat the pogromist reactionary tendencies in the Palestinian resistance. That is the task that the ISL has set for itself, and we certainly intend to carry on with it.

After all that, I find it necessary to say that, of course, given a situation in which the Palestinians are daily oppressed and murdered by the Zionist state, to be obsessed with nightmare scenarios of Palestinian violence against Jews in a future revolution suggests a racist hysterical outlook, completely incompatible with Marxism or in fact any sort of solidarity with Palestine.

[The Ungovernable Farce]

As for what can be done about anti-Semitism, since Jews are either a relatively privileged minority or direct oppressors in most of the world, the ball is in their court.
Just to say that this sounds terrifyingly victim-blaming to me. But I think this subject is complex and important enough to deserve its own thread, which I'll start in just a moment.

[Yehuda Stern]

Perhaps I should clarify. I was referring to anti-Semitism which comes from oppressed people, Arabs and Muslims mostly. In that since a lot of the anti-Semitism comes from the actions of the state of Israel, and I have no doubt that the actions of Israeli Jews will have much to do with moderating or worsening it. With ruling class and fascist anti-Semitism, of course things are different, and these people can deal with only by very different means.

[The Ungovernable Farce]

Perhaps I should clarify. I was referring to anti-Semitism which comes from oppressed people, Arabs and Muslims mostly. In that since a lot of the anti-Semitism comes from the actions of the state of Israel, and I have no doubt that the actions of Israeli Jews will have much to do with moderating or worsening it. With ruling class and fascist anti-Semitism, of course things are different, and these people can deal with only by very different means.
Yeah, I'd mostly agree with that, although I still think it's a bit simplistic to draw a neat line between "oppressed anti-Semitism" and "ruling class anti-Semitism", since I think that, especially in the Middle East, a lot of Arab and Muslim anti-Semitism is propagated by the ruling class of Middle Eastern regimes, in the way that ruling classes have always used racism - to distract justified anger and distract attention away from class conflicts at home. But anyway, I've started my thread now.

[Kayser_Soso]

I would say anti-Semitism is a rather unique brand of "racism", if only because whereas other brands of racism tend to portray a certain group a "bottom-dwelling" parasites, anti-semitism presupposes that the enemy is a secret elite at the top of things. This is largely in part to the fact that Jews in any country, have always managed to assimilate to a large degree- anti-Semitic claims that Jews always remain insular and separate are simply nonsense. In fact I have often heard that Jews actually have the highest intermarraige rates in many countries- totally dispelling the myth that they try to maintain some kind of "purity"(as if the original Hebrews could somehow preserve the same bloodline for several thousands of years).

Anti-Semitism is often attractive to people who have a need to believe that "their" people wouldn't do things that they see as harmful to their existence. It is much more comforting to them to believe that there is this secret elite that looks like them, but is actually loyal to some international cabal.

All of this reminds me of a tragic story I once heard from a Holocaust survivor on a documentary- when some Nazi Germans were telling him he was a Jew and not a German. He responded, "No, I am a German, a German of Jewish faith." Anti-Semites feel a need to pin their problems on some "other", but often times choosing some minority group as the secret power behind the scenes would just be absurd; for example, this is why neo-Nazi movements would never suggest that African Americans secretly rule America, even after the election of Obama.

The most infuriating aspect of it all is that these are people who will take some social ill, diligently search for one among the perpetrator who has some tenous "Jewish heritage"(whatever the fuck that really means), and then declare the whole problem to be the fault of the Jews, totally excusing however many gentiles are involved in the same damn enterprise.