Proof or Corporatism or Cospiracy Theory?

[Havet]

This is pertaining the current news regarding the h1n1 strand of the flu, which originated from Mexico.

Original video I saw, spoken in Spanish with Portuguese subtitles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcgCBiyGljM

Now with English subtitles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQYBfyRS2qQ

Note from poster:


I have now added English subtitles.
If you can't see the English subtitles, just activate them on the lower right corner of the video.

Enjoy and Comment.

[Havet]

I don't usually buy into Conspiracy Theories (I only believed the conspiracy theory of the attacks on the twin towers during 20 minutes), but i believe this video is built open very strong premises which come from trusted sources.

[#FF0000]

Yeah this sounds about right to me. I don't know about calling it conspiracy or corporatism. Sounds more like a company investing in a little PR (read: buying out the right people) for fun and (mostly) profit.

[Havet]

SHOCKING "REVELATION"

Former Health Minister from Norway comes and talk about how the flu is not dangerous, the vaccine is, and the vaccine was created by an "elite" to reduce global population by 2/3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTgyakGAddM

Now to be honest, I'm still kind of divided, since all the people linking to this video claim she is from Norway and a former Health Minister, but the only links to her name are on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rauni-Leena_Luukanen-Kilde), which claim:


She has spoken openly about the hiding of the UFO evidence and other conspiracy theories (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory). It is claimed she has taken part in numerous UFO conferences, but such a claim has been refuted in the past.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rauni-Leena_Luukanen-Kilde#cite_note-0) According to her the Nazis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_German_Workers_Party) visited the Moon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon) in the 1940s and the Americans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) have already been on Mars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars). From 2006 there will be an atmospheric safe McDonalds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonalds) there, she says.

Kind of hard to believe someone who BELIEVES in that...

Has anyone else heard of this story? Can anyone else provide links that there IS a Rauni Kilde who was in fact a health minister in norway different from this other nutcase?

I'm rather confused about it, but my best guess, from the information available, is that she is THE nutcase. According to wikipedia, that other Rauni Kilde " often calls herself a former Chief Medical Officer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Medical_Officer) of Finland and uses other questionable titles as well"

[Havet]

So can anyone confirm that the person talking in the video is the same as the one in the wikipedia article?

[eyedrop]

So can anyone confirm that the person talking in the video is the same as the one in the wikipedia article?I've never heard about her before, as far as I know she has never been a health minister here.

On the other hand our last healthminister believed in healing hands (Snåsamannen), although that had a more opportunist taste to it, so it could be possible.

Competense and qualifications are by no means necessary to rise in party-politics.


Anyway why would the capitalists kill of 2/3 of the worlds population? Who would create their wealth then?

[Havet]

I've never heard about her before, as far as I know she has never been a health minister here.

On the other hand our last healthminister believed in healing hands (Snåsamannen), although that had a more opportunist taste to it, so it could be possible.

Competense and qualifications are by no means necessary to rise in party-politics.


Anyway why would the capitalists kill of 2/3 of the worlds population? Who would create their wealth then?

No idea, perhaps to be able to control people better?

Anyway, what are your thoughts regarding the first video?

[eyedrop]

I can't really be bothered to watch youtube videos at the moment.

[jake williams]

No idea, perhaps to be able to control people better?

Anyway, what are your thoughts regarding the first video?
Except that if it's the "sheeple" that would be killed off by mass vaccinations, and the only people that are left are the... angry conspiracy theorists, who would then supposedly actually be onto the government, the theory kind of falls apart some.

Having watched the video, I think it's not necessarily too committed to a "conspiracy theory" as such. I think it's relatively open to the possibility that you just have a ruling class without a hard line between state and business, which we know about anyway.

[spice756]

There has been a conspiracy of vaccination for long time now of ( A) drug companies profiting or ( B ) control.

It is up to your if you want to get a vaccination or not.

[9]

There has been a conspiracy of vaccination for long time now of ( A) drug companies profiting or ( B ) control.

It is up to your if you want to get a vaccination or not.
Actually no, it's not.
Just to say, I haven't watched the youtube video; I can't be bothered to watch it right now, either.
But I work as a laboratory technician's assistant at a hematology lab. If you work in the medical field in the US, you are actually mandated to get the h1n1 vaccination. I was shocked when I heard this - that I am required to get the vaccination, it's just a little strange. Of course, I don't believe that it's some sort of conspiracy, if that is what the video is alleging.
We were due to get the vaccinations several weeks ago, but it turned out that they are on backorder. At this rate, we're supposed to get them in mid-November, but who knows if that won't be postponed again. I actually came down with the h1n1 a week or two ago, though, so (presumably) I won't need to get the vaccination, since the virus has already been in my system, which means I'll have already developed the proper antibodies and a vaccination would serve literally no purpose.

[spice756]

To people start to die or cannot have kids people should not be allowed to talk garbage about vaccination .

People like Alex jones is what gives the left a bad name and stops all movment to the left .

Here is the fack Alex jones work for the elite and the elite what control and money so they say communism was set up by the big banks to scare people away from communism .They run and control fox news and say communism , socialism ,social democratic and not to say center is all communism or socialism is bad.They say Obama is a socialist and warfare , subsidized housing ,food stamps and old age social security and state run free heathcare is socialism and is very bad. They say communism /socialism is run by the elite a shadow government that no one knows of who will kill most people and inslave them.

The shadow government may be a alien race a type of lizared a shape shifter.They made many virus and bacteria to profit of vaccination .So when the new world order starts people will say no to vaccination , free heathcare . There will be a new epidemic and with so many people saying no to vaccination and only the rich getting heathcare . The heathcare cost is very very very very high now but most of this is part of the new world order plan to have high heathcare cost .In the future and with the epidemic the heathcare cost will be so much you will need $200,000,000,000 just to get x-ray for broken bone.This will kill of all people and only the rich will live and be happy.

You see in the past suppressing the truth did not work so now you fake it that you mean opposite of that you mean. So banning progressive talk does not help so you fake it that the progressive talk is part of some conspiracy. You distort the meaning too so the average person thinks communism /socialism mean the same thing and warfare , subsidized housing ,food stamps and old age ,social security not to say Obama is all part of socialism .Why distort the meaning ? Well that so everyone is all anti-left so the new world order can do their plan.

They fake it that the progressive talk is part of some conspiracy.

Anyway that is my conspiracy.

But hay anyone can have a conspiracy.Next time some conservative or Alex jones fan is talking I'm showing them this.Why ? So there is progressive movment.

[9]

To people start to die or cannot have kids people should not be allowed to talk garbage about vaccination .

People like Alex jones is what gives the left a bad name and stops all movment to the left .

Here is the fack Alex jones work for the elite and the elite what control and money so they say communism was set up by the big banks to scare people away from communism .They run and control fox news and say communism , socialism ,social democratic and not to say center is all communism or socialism is bad.They say Obama is a socialist and warfare , subsidized housing ,food stamps and old age social security and state run free heathcare is socialism and is very bad. They say communism /socialism is run by the elite a shadow government that no one knows of who will kill most people and inslave them.

The shadow government may be a alien race a type of lizared a shape shifter.They made many virus and bacteria to profit of vaccination .So when the new world order starts people will say no to vaccination , free heathcare . There will be a new epidemic and with so many people saying no to vaccination and only the rich getting heathcare . The heathcare cost is very very very very high now but most of this is part of the new world order plan to have high heathcare cost .In the future and with the epidemic the heathcare cost will be so much you will need $200,000,000,000 just to get x-ray for broken bone.This will kill of all people and only the rich will live and be happy.

You see in the past suppressing the truth did not work so now you fake it that you mean opposite of that you mean. So banning progressive talk does not help so you fake it that the progressive talk is part of some conspiracy. You distort the meaning too so the average person thinks communism /socialism mean the same thing and warfare , subsidized housing ,food stamps and old age ,social security not to say Obama is all part of socialism .Why distort the meaning ? Well that so everyone is all anti-left so the new world order can do their plan.

They fake it that the progressive talk is part of some conspiracy.

Anyway that is my conspiracy.

But hay anyone can have a conspiracy.Next time some conservative or Alex jones fan is talking I'm showing them this.Why ? So there is progressive movment.

Haha, your conspiracy theory about conspiracy theories is funny. I actually do think you make some very valid points, though I tend to have a much more simplistic view of conspiracy theories.
Which is, I think it's just a distraction. I think it's an excellent way of hooking a lot of young people who are just beginning to question the validity of the "political process" or others of any age who, for the first time, are facing serious economic hardships and are feeling very cynical and hopeless - the sort of people who are looking for a neat little packaged answer which can explain how it's possible that they have been fucked over so hard. And it's an excellent way of disempowering people and making them feel like everything is completely out of their hands and out of their control. Conspiracy theories make people complacent, no matter how zealous they may seem.
I think the really hardcore conspiracy theorists like David Icke are, generally speaking, anti-Semites. The whole nonsense is generally just an extension of The Protocols of The Elders of Zion, and I think that's actually the forgery that most of the "New Age" conspiracy theorists - whether consciously or otherwise - draw their ideas from.

[jake williams]

I think the really hardcore conspiracy theorists like David Icke are, generally speaking, anti-Semites. The whole nonsense is generally just an extension of The Protocols of The Elders of Zion, and I think that's actually the forgery that most of the "New Age" conspiracy theorists - whether consciously or otherwise - draw their ideas from.
I'm not sure that's right. I don't see any prima facie reason for it to be. I think conspiracy theories make a lot of sense given the data a whole lot of people are confronted with. I think they're natural, semi-rational reactions to a certain set of experiences. I think insofar as it can become anti-Semitic it's only because anti-Semitism grew up around being useful for such a purpose. That is to say, conspiracy theories came first, anti-Semitism came later, and stuck around.

Conspiracy theories appeal to people with serious and apparently unusual problems. They appeal to people who've been heavily indoctrinated with some particular view of the world - say, that in American capitalism people who work hard will do well - but their experiences are at variance with that expectation. Thus the notion that some exogenous force - say, "the Jews" - is the cause of their problems, and without it (them) the problems would go away, is quite comforting. And indeed, while I don't at all agree with the flood of assertions that reference to "the bankers" in the present crisis is necessarily anti-Semitic, there's certainly the risk. With that risk in mind though, I think it's pretty counterproductive to dismiss people who object to a multi-trillion dollar financial industry as crypto-anti-Semites. These are people - in a lot of cases, devestated working class people - objecting to some of the gross excesses of capitalism. We should be appealing to them.

At any rate, there's nothing intrinsic about Jews.There's no reason that the Jews should be the only possible conspiring agent. It just happens that there's this massive, massive pile of anti-Semitic literature that is readily accessible to anyone looking for an explanation, more accessible than "we" are certainly.

Frankly, I think it's anti-Semitic to imply that Jews have some special character that lends them to being the central actor in, what, all conspiracy theories? - and I'm sincerely not sure what else you're arguing. I could have you completely wrong, but I've heard the argument before and I think it's ridiculous.

[9]

I'm not sure that's right. I don't see any prima facie reason for it to be. I think conspiracy theories make a lot of sense given the data a whole lot of people are confronted with. I think they're natural, semi-rational reactions to a certain set of experiences. I think insofar as it can become anti-Semitic it's only because anti-Semitism grew up around being useful for such a purpose. That is to say, conspiracy theories came first, anti-Semitism came later, and stuck around.

Conspiracy theories appeal to people with serious and apparently unusual problems. They appeal to people who've been heavily indoctrinated with some particular view of the world - say, that in American capitalism people who work hard will do well - but their experiences are at variance with that expectation. Thus the notion that some exogenous force - say, "the Jews" - is the cause of their problems, and without it (them) the problems would go away, is quite comforting. And indeed, while I don't at all agree with the flood of assertions that reference to "the bankers" in the present crisis is necessarily anti-Semitic, there's certainly the risk. With that risk in mind though, I think it's pretty counterproductive to dismiss people who object to a multi-trillion dollar financial industry as crypto-anti-Semites. These are people - in a lot of cases, devestated working class people - objecting to some of the gross excesses of capitalism. We should be appealing to them.

At any rate, there's nothing intrinsic about Jews.There's no reason that the Jews should be the only possible conspiring agent. It just happens that there's this massive, massive pile of anti-Semitic literature that is readily accessible to anyone looking for an explanation, more accessible than "we" are certainly.

Frankly, I think it's anti-Semitic to imply that Jews have some special character that lends them to being the central actor in, what, all conspiracy theories? - and I'm sincerely not sure what else you're arguing. I could have you completely wrong, but I've heard the argument before and I think it's ridiculous.

Note that I said "hardcore conspiracy theorists like David Icke". David Icke admits to using the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. And indeed, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is essentially the foundation of New Age conspiracy theories. Anyone familiar with the forgery I am speaking about should have no trouble at all seeing the obvious allusions to it in many modern conspiracy theories ("the Mossad did 9/11", "Israel controls the US", the "Jewish lobby", the "Jewish-masonic conspiracy", etc. etc. etc.).
You'll have to point me to where I've said anything in this thread about any "special character[istics]" that Jews possess. What a strange thing for you to even presume. Anyone familiar with anti-Semitism knows the role conspiracy theories have always played in it, which indeed, differentiates it from other race-based forms of discrimination.
I suppose, also, my opinion that "hardcore conspiracy theorists like David Icke" are often times anti-Semites, aside from being grounded in fact, comes from my own experience as a Jew, and the encounters I have had with people who buy into conspiracy theories.
But you would hardly be the first person to allege that I am an anti-Semitic Jew (though I do believe "self-hater" is the preferred term these days), and just the other week, someone else on revleft accused me of being a misogynist woman (for taking an anti-sexist position, no less), so the irony has really just been pouring in lately.

[Kronos]

Once upon a time, musta been 'round October few years back, in one o' dose top secret labmo-tories de gubbnint keep stashed away underneath Virginia....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdiWbZtlw6c

[9]

....:huh: What.