The U.S Green Party and the IWW

[The pizza crazed Anarchist]

I was looking at the U.S. Green Party website for the hell of it and I looked on the right side of the page and I saw that the website is “maintained by Union Labor” and picture of the IWW emblem above it. Is it just me, but does it seem a little strange that people that work for the Green party (and are most likely members of the party) to also be in and unionized by the IWW.

[yuon]

Why?

The IWW is a radical industrial union. They organise workers, and they don't have to be revolutionary anarchist syndicalist workers either.

People in the Greens are more likely to have a more radical view of politics, capitalism and so on, and thus are more likely to be happy with the ideas put forward by a syndicalist industrial union, i.e. the IWW.

It would be surprising if the Democrats website was maintained by IWW members, however. That's 'cause they are basically not radical at all. People in that party wouldn't be wanting to change things radically, and, if they were in any union, would join one of the "normal" unions.

[JimmyJazz]

We've been over this - individual IWW members are allowed to work with any political party they may choose.

Whether they should be using the IWW emblem is another thing.

[The pizza crazed Anarchist]

Why?

The IWW is a radical industrial union. They organise workers, and they don't have to be revolutionary anarchist syndicalist workers either.

People in the Greens are more likely to have a more radical view of politics, capitalism and so on, and thus are more likely to be happy with the ideas put forward by a syndicalist industrial union, i.e. the IWW.

It would be surprising if the Democrats website was maintained by IWW members, however. That's 'cause they are basically not radical at all. People in that party wouldn't be wanting to change things radically, and, if they were in any union, would join one of the "normal" unions.

I know that members of the IWW don’t have to be anarchists and can be in the political party of their choice but the Greens are a liberal reformist party that has no intention to “Abolition of the wage system” let alone capitalism. It may be that some in the Green party may be receptive to the program of the IWW but that does not mean you have to work for and be members of there organization to recruit them to the cause.

[yuon]

The point is that not all the members of the IWW are revolutionaries. Some are reformists, and thus why shouldn't they work for the reformist Greens?

[Q]

Whether they should be using the IWW emblem is another thing.
The IWW constitution very specifically forbids it in fact. So the question why the IWW emblem is on the Green Party's website, making it at least seem as if they're affiliated, is justified.

[Devrim]

The point is that not all the members of the IWW are revolutionaries. Some are reformists, and thus why shouldn't they work for the reformist Greens?

This may be true in practice, but I think in theory they have to agree with the preamble.

Devrim

[Devrim]

In any way the 'maintained by union labour' only says that the work is done by the named IWW branch. I have, on my bookshelf, books that carry a similar logo. It does not mean that the IWW endorses that book. Iteans the IWW organised the print shop where it was made.

Devrim

[Pogue]

This may be true in practice, but I think in theory they have to agree with the preamble.

Devrim

Thats absurd, they don't. Obviously they have to abide by the rules of the organisation but we don't check to make sure they have revolutionary sndicliast politics before we let anyone in, that'd be absurd.

[Devrim]

Thats absurd, they don't. Obviously they have to abide by the rules of the organisation but we don't check to make sure they have revolutionary sndicliast politics before we let anyone in, that'd be absurd.

So what is the point of the preamble if you don't have to agree with it? You might as well just drop it then.

Devrim

[Pogue]

So what is the point of the preamble if you don't have to agree with it? You might as well just drop it then.

Devrim

The preamble determines what we are as an organisation, our goals as an organisation. I'd hardly expect every single person we unionise to even understand the preamble let alone agree with it. You don't need too with a syndicalist unino because its not an explcitly political organisation. You could either see this as a weakness (i.e. we'll have members who don't agree with our overall aims) or a strength (they can still join and hopefully develop the same ideas as the organisation does). I consider it a strength and it is what drew me to revoltuionary syndicalism.

[Devrim]

The preamble determines what we are as an organisation, our goals as an organisation. I'd hardly expect every single person we unionise to even understand the preamble let alone agree with it. You don't need too with a syndicalist unino because its not an explcitly political organisation. You could either see this as a weakness (i.e. we'll have members who don't agree with our overall aims) or a strength (they can still join and hopefully develop the same ideas as the organisation does). I consider it a strength and it is what drew me to revoltuionary syndicalism.

Would you say that a majority of the members agree with it? If not it wouldn't reflect your goals as an organisation unless that is, you advocate a highly undemocratic form of organisation.

Do you think that if the IWW actually managed to organise any unionised shops, which at the moment it hasn't got any of in the UK, that a majority of the members would agree with it?

Surely if one talks about, as the IWW does, political control by the membership, then the majority of the membership must agree with the preamble otherwise it would be an organisation, which holds political positions that are actually opposed by the majority of the membership.

Devrim

[JimmyJazz]

The IWW constitution very specifically forbids it in fact. So the question why the IWW emblem is on the Green Party's website, making it at least seem as if they're affiliated, is justified.

The question was about Green Party members being in and unionized by the IWW.

On that, I agree with Devrim's post that I thanked.