Fight Club Appreciation Thread

[Pogue]

Because you can never go without one.

This book was just so influencial on me, politically, personally, socially, anyone else found it very very monumental?

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

I preferred Green street 2.

[MaoTseHelen]

Hell yeah. Fight Club was awesome.

[Pirate Utopian]

I loved the movie and the book.

The writing style of the book is really cool.

[MarxSchmarx]

This movie comes up quite a bit here.

Maybe it has something to do with male teenage angst , which was the age when I saw it and, yeah, it spoke to me then. Over the years, tho, it's kinda lost its luster :rolleyes:.

All in all it was a cleverly written, well-shot, well-directed film with decent acting. But at the end of the day, it really has some surprisingly reactionary elements.

[black magick hustla]

i dont want to like it but i like it a lot. i guess there is that little fascist inside each one of us, like foucault said. it appeals to a lot of young, angry men because we all feel enmasculated to a certain extent, and sometimes the reactionary calls to exert our masculinity on the world and destroy it does strike a note inside each one us. i mean blow up shit, pick up fights, bring civilization down so that we have fuckin hunter gather societies. thats so fuckin cool. i mean

"Let us have a dagger between our teeth, a bomb in our hands, and an infinite scorn in our hearts."

Mussolini said that and I mean its fuckin cool. an anarchist could have equally said it. this is what strikes me from a lot of antifascist anarchists or whatever, they try to legitimize that little macho fascist inside them by being fuckin badass machos but instead of kicking the head of black people and brown people they kick fascists.

[Angry Young Man]

I loves the film. Haven't read the book.

[Pirate Utopian]

I loves the film. Haven't read the book.
If you loves the film, you'd loves the book.

[Pogue]

i dont want to like it but i like it a lot. i guess there is that little fascist inside each one of us, like foucault said. it appeals to a lot of young, angry men because we all feel enmasculated to a certain extent, and sometimes the reactionary calls to exert our masculinity on the world and destroy it does strike a note inside each one us. i mean blow up shit, pick up fights, bring civilization down so that we have fuckin hunter gather societies. thats so fuckin cool. i mean

"Let us have a dagger between our teeth, a bomb in our hands, and an infinite scorn in our hearts."

Mussolini said that and I mean its fuckin cool. an anarchist could have equally said it. this is what strikes me from a lot of antifascist anarchists or whatever, they try to legitimize that little macho fascist inside them by being fuckin badass machos but instead of kicking the head of black people and brown people they kick fascists.

Without dealing with the bullshit about it being about fascism, that second part is absurd.

I don't know who these anti-fascist anarchists are you are talking about, and I am sure you don't either seeing as your not active in the revolutionary left (much too busy with that degree?).

So let me work through your stunning logic here. People who dedicate a serious amount of time fighting fascism, i.e. putting their personal health, safety and lives at risk, are doing it because they ar fascists.

So, for example, when a comrade gets a year in jail for attacking a fascist demonstration, they are going through all this because secretly they are a fascist.

Am I the only one who sees sometihng of a lack of coherency in dada's 'argument' here.

So, actually, these militant anti-fascists, say from the Arditi Del Popolo of the 1920s, through to the German anti-fascists in the 30s, all the way through the 43 group, the AFA Stewards Group, AFA, anyone who opposed the NF in the 70s and 80s, and everyone in the anti-fascist movement today in Russia, who are confronted by the largest and most dangerous neo-nazi movement in the world which have claimed over 200 lives in 2 years, all of these people, have actually been 'macho fascists' who actually want to beat up black people, however, but because they want to beat black people up so much, they end up siding with black people and fighting those who threaten black people.

That certainly clears things up. I guess its got nothing to do with a sense of self-preservation, moral and political outrage or a general clear headed rejection of allowing the far-right to organise that motivates me, its actually some sort of Freudian hatred of black people which means I take out my anger on the fascists.

In summary, dada, you are talking an absolute laod of shit. I know its trendy amongst left communism, the most absurd of all ideologies, to denounce anti-fascism as some sort of game, and I know its easy, when your not actually active in the left in any way, shape or form to criticise others, but trust me mate, your not qualified to talk about this as that total wankery you just came out with proves.

[Pogue]

And I think anyone who sees in it either

A) A fascist message

or

B) A call for everyone to go out and be 'hard'

is completely misudnerstanding the point of the film and book in quite a spectacular way. I saw it first as a critique of our society, our values, the way we think, itneract and deal with our lives and other people, the way we and others hould ourselves back.

[MaoTseHelen]

Not to mention it closes with the blowing up of credit card companies, to destroy all the records.

[Pogue]

It has a political theme but it is hardly forwarding one ideology, its not meant to be political, its more philosophical/a social critique.

Theres a bit in which a character says 'we should have a general strike to redistribute the wealth of the world', that doesnt make it a classic of anarcho-syndicalism.

[bricolage]

I preferred Green street 2.

Innit, noone stood their ground in fight club.

[ev]

Listen up, maggots. You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else. We’re all part of the same compost heap.

The movie was an excellent adaptation of the book.

[mykittyhasaboner]

I am Jack's appreciation for Fight Club.

[Orange Juche]

Loved the film...

but...

if I'm going to analyze it beyond just being a very well constructed story and well done film, a masterpiece in that sense, and analyze it sociologically... it fails from a left perspective.

Durden's whole paradigm is rooted in hidden misogyny. He takes issue with the current generation of men being one raised by their mothers, his world view states that the absence of the father is the key to the male masculinity crisis (if you want to refer to it as that.). The views being proposed by the protagonists, then, are rooted in some kind of fear of the decline of the patriarchy... the idea that men and women have established roles that they belong in, and that men being "soft" or more woman like is weak and a bad thing.

I like thoughts pondered on consumerism and whatnot, but I don't try to take in this film for it's "merits" in making statements, just as an incredible film with an incredible story. Because if I were to take the protagonist paradigm and view it as anything deeper than the film, I would find a misogynistic, juvenile rebellion.

[Dóchas]

i saw the film ages ago and thought "holy fucking shit is it legal to be that awsome!!!!!" and over the summer i read the book and at the begining i thought it was pretty disappointing but as i got into it it grew on me and now is one of my favourite books. have any of you read the extended ending at the end of one of the new editions? its really cool!

"things that you own end up owning you"

priceless!!

[MilitantAnarchist]

You fools! The first rule of fight club is you do not talk about fight club!
The second rule of fight club, is you do NOT talk about fight club!


Jokes aside, its a phenominal book and a great film. I'm a big fan of Chuck Palahniuk and any ideas about 'machoism' will vanish when you read about him or any of his other books. The book is about anger and disillusion and comedy and rebellion and the unleashing the inner freak that wants to knock your boss out (i guess).. it is NOT about a dude with a split personality who sets up some fight clubs, if you read more and more of it you'll see alot of the charecters are one in the same person in alot of his books, just different and opposing generations....

You can read alot into it, but for all the potential Palahniuk-o-philes like me, you really have to read have to read Haunted next. Then Lulaby... also, they already killed another book of his called Choke which is excellent (not that i'm saying fight club killed the book.. but it did 'capitalise' it... but Choke the film does kill the book)....

And the third rule is, if its your first time at fight club.... you have to fight....

[scarletghoul]

Palahniuk is a brilliant writer. I just got his recent book, Pygmy, and it's great and very original. Recommend it to all of you.

[Nwoye]

In summary, dada, you are talking an absolute laod of shit. I know its trendy amongst left communism, the most absurd of all ideologies,
Pogue's summary of other leftist tendencies: left-libertarians = bourgeois reactionaries, Bolsheviks/Leninists = opportunist anti-worker counterrevolutionaries, Maoists = crazy totalitarians, and Left commies = the most absurd ideologues of all.

... and we're the sectarians?

[MilitantAnarchist]

I've had Pygmy since the second it was released... im to scared to read it though... read the first few pages and didnt like it, but i wasnt getting stuck in because ive been in a 'beat writers' phase for the past 5 or 6 months... but i will read it soon... but i trust your judgement that it is good:cool:

[nuisance]

Pogue's summary of other leftist tendencies: left-libertarians = bourgeois reactionaries, Bolsheviks/Leninists = opportunist anti-worker counterrevolutionaries, Maoists = crazy totalitarians, and Left commies = the most absurd ideologues of all.

... and we're the sectarians?
You're the opposition.

[scarletghoul]

I'm pretty sure he views maoism as not totalitarianism (thats leninism) but a bunch of crazy peasants with guns n shit

[scarletghoul]

I've had Pygmy since the second it was released... im to scared to read it though... read the first few pages and didnt like it, but i wasnt getting stuck in because ive been in a 'beat writers' phase for the past 5 or 6 months... but i will read it soon... but i trust your judgement that it is good:cool:
Yeah man, it's totally worth reading :)

[Pawn Power]

I recently read a interesting article with a really good analysis of Fight Club, which I share. Here is the piece on the film:


Think of the range of supposedly ‘anti-consumerist’ films sold to us in alluring DVD format by Dreamworks, 21st Century Fox, and Pixar, among others. David Fincher’s pop-Heideggerian film, Fight Club (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight_Club_%28film%29), ostensibly challenges corporate culture. It does so by validating a rugged masculinism, in which the nameless antihero abandons the comforts of life, blows up his flat with all his belongings, and goes to live with his alter ego, Tyler Durden, in an abandoned house. He sets up fight clubs, and the homoerotic violence instils in him a sense of authenticity and a rage against emasculating corporate culture.

Tyler Durden explains: “We’re consumers. We are by-products of a lifestyle obsession. Murder, crime, poverty, these things don’t concern me. What concerns me are celebrity magazines, television with 500 channels, some guy’s name on my underwear. Rogaine, Viagra, Olestra.” The clubs become the basis of an underground insurgency that, rather than seeking to socialise wealth, sets out to destroy it, to create chaos. Again, Durden explains the motive of the rebels: “We’re the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War’s a spiritual war… our Great Depression is our lives. We’ve all been raised on television to believe that one day we’d all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won’t. And we’re slowly learning that fact. And we’re very, very pissed off.”

The film reaches a euphoric climax with the implosion of the banking system – represented on-screen by two towers exploding in flames and collapsing, as the heroes spectate. In Fight Club, the critique of consumerism comes from the right. The longing for an adventure, for a catastrophe like the Great War, recalls the enthusiasm with which European rightists met that war. The idea that a life and death struggle, or an economic depression, would restore lost integrity is ironically one of the most commonplace tropes of bourgeois culture. You only have to recall the forlorn hope placed in a renewed civic nationalism in America after 9/11, and the relief expressed by commentators as diverse as David Brooks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brooks_%28journalist%29) and George Packer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Packer), that an era of decadence was at last at an end.
Here is the article: http://www.re-public.gr/en/?p=1532

[black magick hustla]

blah.

too long didnt read.

do you seriously dont think that all the collective jack off of young "red" skinhead and male punx that are involved in that shit has no elements of machismo? you gotta be kidding. its all a huge inglorious bastards roleplay. i mean cmon. i was involved in antiracist shit a few years ago. i know how it feels to think of yourself as a fash basher or whatever. its good for the ego, but atleast in the british and american context, its not good for politics

[Niccolò Rossi]

ISo let me work through your stunning logic here. People who dedicate a serious amount of time fighting fascism, i.e. putting their personal health, safety and lives at risk, are doing it because they ar fascists.

In Dada's defence (Ladies and Gentlemen, sorry dada couldn't be here tonight), that is not at all what he said. All Dada was doing was drawing parallels between the psychological motivators of fascist and anti-fascist violence amongst young people today. Personally I think this argument is pretty flimsy, silly and is more than anything else, just Dada being his normal trolling-self, but I think you misrepresent it.


I know its trendy amongst left communism, the most absurd of all ideologies, to denounce anti-fascism as some sort of game, and I know its easy, when your not actually active in the left in any way, shape or form to criticise others, but trust me mate, your not qualified to talk about this as that total wankery you just came out with proves.

1) Left communism, as much as we might hope, is not trendy

2) The criticism made by the communist left of anti-fascism is not that it is 'some sort of game'.

3) Political activity, or lack there of, does not given anyone anymore or less right to criticise. You are not attacking the argument, your attacking the person who made it.

EDIT: On topic; I've never read the book, but I thought the film was great.

[Pogue]

too long didnt read.

do you seriously dont think that all the collective jack off of young "red" skinhead and male punx that are involved in that shit has no elements of machismo? you gotta be kidding. its all a huge inglorious bastards roleplay. i mean cmon. i was involved in antiracist shit a few years ago. i know how it feels to think of yourself as a fash basher or whatever. its good for the ego, but atleast in the british and american context, its not good for politics

I.e. you want to look like you didn't read it to portray some sort of non chalance. Your not fooling anyone.

I have no idea what this 'red skinhead' and 'male punx' collective jack off is but I assure you it is a notion only you yourself hold, especially in the scene I know anti-fascism is risky and hardly glamarous, i see nothing wrong in taking pride or enjoyment from it but its not a scene, stop generalising from your own experience, essentially, because you clearly know nothing.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/2008/01/08-15/fight-club-brad-pit-tyler.jpg

Looks more like a junky hideout


These lot would do brads alter egos in

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m97/kky16/GreenStreetHooligans.jpg

[Pawn Power]

Looks more like a junky hideout




More like a homoerotic hideout. See the article I posted above.

[Pogue]

Again I don't think masculinity or homosexuality were the main themes of this book.

[farleft]

Fantastic film and book, Chuck Palahniuk is a great author, Diary was also very good book by him.

[MilitantAnarchist]

Diary was fucking sweet! Palahniuk has to be one of my top5 fave writers of all time.

[Ovi]

I haven't read the book (yet) but I plan to see the movie again tomorrow after so many years

[bcbm]

especially in the scene I know anti-fascism is risky and hardly glamarous, i see nothing wrong in taking pride or enjoyment from it but its not a sceneuh


Again I don't think masculinity or homosexuality were the main themes of this book.i think its pretty silly to suggest masculinity wasn't a theme of the book. perhaps not a "main" one, but certainly right up there.

[Pogue]

uh

i think its pretty silly to suggest masculinity wasn't a theme of the book. perhaps not a "main" one, but certainly right up there.

nice call on my error :lol:

i usually refer to the anarchist movement, anyone associated with anti-fascism as a 'scene' because atm its not really a movement, i guess what i meant to say was its not a cultural thing, i.e. a cultural scene.

[Pogue]

Yeh masculinity was a theme but I can honestly say that passed me by, I just don't think it was the message he was trying to put across at all, the other main theme of the book is more important.

[bcbm]

i usually refer to the anarchist movement, anyone associated with anti-fascism as a 'scene' because atm its not really a movement, i guess what i meant to say was its not a cultural thing, i.e. a cultural scene.

i haven't seen much of the antifa whatever in the uk so i can't comment, but on the continent it definitely seems like more of a cultural scene than anything else.


Yeh masculinity was a theme but I can honestly say that passed me by, I just don't think it was the message he was trying to put across at all, the other main theme of the book is more important.

been ages since i read the book, but i know it was definitely a pretty big undertone of the movie.

[Jethro Tull]

the film is fun. it shouldn't be taken too seriously. obviously there are elements that are misogynistic and politically problematic. there are elements of star wars that are misogynistic and politically problematic, but anyone who takes star wars too seriously can't enjoy life, not even under the squalid horror of capitalism.

i'm not a big fan of chuck p.'s writing, though....:sleep:

[jake williams]

Uh I think most of the "left critics" are totally missing the point.

The book/film (they really are unusually similar in tone and style) practically self-represent as being not a serious ideological or political or social prescription at all: but rather as a snapshot of a particular psychosocial mentality. It's about contradictions and complexities within, I think, a sort of, for lack of a better term (it's quite late) postmodern male identity. It's about how, for example, we are called upon (not just as men but as people) to consume, and at the same time, to be above consumption (and that in so doing can actually be self-destructive). Or, for a more direct (if perhaps disagreeable) example, the ways in which pro-"masculinity" and anti-"masculinity" conflict.

tldr: The whole point of the story is that all these people are batshit - stop pretending it's seriously advocating any sort of politics.

[The Something]

^ He is very correct. The anti-consumerist slant of the movie followed by all the subliminal placement of starbucks everywhere in the movie... I think they said the number of cups of starbucks is almost 100? Heh. Great movie though.... the book had a better ending.