EDL In Manchester

[1968]

30 arrests so far.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE5991LR20091010

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6869327.ece

[MaoTseHelen]

Thanks for the update - how many of the arrested on our side?

[Anton]

Don't know the exact numbers, but a part of them will be our people. Cops grabbed an Anarchist comrade for what seems like refusing to take of a scarf of his face, as well as a few others. They seemed pretty intent on grabbing the Asian guys as soon as possible.

[Spawn of Stalin]

Any Comrades present yesterday fancy doing a short write-up?

;)

[Anton]

Any Comrades present yesterday fancy doing a short write-up?

;)
I'll do one a bit later today. I'd also like to hear from some of the Comrades that were inside the gardens the whole time.

[Holden Caulfield]

Check Here (http://lancasteruaf.blogspot.com/2009/10/manchester-demonstration-updates.html)
From Lancaster Unity a shitty(ish) group with a very informative website

[Anton]

OK, so here's my write-up, in case I piss anyone off with this, it's just what I saw on the day so it may not be representative, etc.

Got there pretty early, around 10am, cops all aroudn already, we got section 60'd on our way to the gardens. The gardens were pretty empty when we got there, UAF setting up, antifascists gathering. More people seemingly from both sides were walking around the area. There was road/construciton work spanning half the perimeter of the gardens and a bit out, which was strategically a pain in the ass and didn't even provide any sizable stones, etc.
Went on a bit of a walk around the gardens, didn't spot any obvious groups of fash.
Went back to the gardens, suspicious characters were millign around takign photos. Wetherspoon's (their designated gathering place) didn't show any activity without a bunch of cops and bouncers outside but I was told that earlier a group of fash showed up and that they needed to have tickets to the demo to be let into the pub. Few fash came up to cops, asking where Wetherspoon's was (it was right fucking across the road).
After 11, our numbers started increasing, students marched in form the Uni's though many of them seemed to be UAF, though with exceptions. More anti-fascists showed up. Around 12 ( I think) heard someone yell "Nazis are coming" and saw a small group around the front of Wetherspoon's. A group of us headed that way, I had to maneuver between a cop horse an a UAF steward.
We managed to get around their side for a brief time before the cops did but only minor pushing/shoving occured before the cops surrounded them. Cops started marching them up from the gardens and marched them into a narrow alley. It was confusing and we seemed to be contained in a space with other fash for a bit (not from EDL) but since many comrades were still in the Gardens or somewhere it didn't really spark off.
Cops started marching the EDL group through the back alley, pushing us (still in small numbers) back. At some point it was decided to hold the line and push them back but only one line of about 8-9 people was formed and promptly pushed back. Similar thing was repeated a bit later at the end of the next block. Cops continued marching them down but at this time a bunch of comrades arrived from the Gardens side and a more formidable push happened in a rather narrow space, because of the road works. Managed to hold them for a good 5-10 minutes, before being pushed back. Had my first LOL here as I heard cop shouting at the top of his lungs "pull down that scarf" followed by, in a tone of a magical spell "reveal your face".
Big group tried to maneuver around the construction to get ahead of the fascists, but tripping across shoppers and rather quick police action meant that didn't work out to plan.
Cops held the fash there for a while, brought in a van, dogs, etc. Marched the fash southward along the other side of the construcion fences and contained most of the anti-fascist/UAF people pretty effectively. Lots of chanting here, for whar it's good for.
Cops started rounding up all the anti-fascists and UAF into the Gardens, seemd strange but didn't have a lot of choice. Got into the gardens, saw them harassing a comrade I met in the morning they had grabbed but he was too far behind the line. Funny enough he had said he wasn't into violence. Not sure if he got arrested or released, didn't run into him later though.
Lot of chanting and noise in the corner of the gardens, headed that way, realised it was just two sections of the UAF chanting at each other through a barricade. Went to another edge of the garden, saw some mates on the outside and climbed over the little barricade thing. Decided to do a walk around. Cops set up a perimeter aroudn the gardens and that area an refused to let us through. Not enough big groups on the outside to effectively break the lines, and no big point in doing so.
Did a bit a of a walk around, small groups of fash standing right next to the cops here and there. Suddenly we hear from a journo that the fash are in the gardens together with the Anti's and the UAF. We decide to go back in.
Cops let us in through a side entrance, after we assure them that we're protesters. Cops asks me who i'm protesting with or for. I tell him "freedom, peace and equality" he let us through.
In the gardens there's at least a double line of cops with more around between the anti's and the EDL. Bob marley and such coming from the UAF speakers. Maybe if we sing along the fash will just pack up and go home. :rolleyes:
Noise coming from the side, a group manage to get out across benches, to run into a brief scuffle with the fash. Only a few blows exchanged between cops with batons show in the middle, I didn't even get time to run in. After this point, no-one from our side on the outside was allowed back in. EDL were later allowed in. Lots of roaming the area, in groups of different sizes, though usually too small for damage. Got some food.
More roaming around, confrontations with randoms groups of fash ending in nothing productive, except a fair few of them being pushed around and otherwise abused by the cops. Hard to tell who's who, if a full fight had broken out, we'd have probably been surrounded.
A group of about five of us run into a bunch of at least 20 young EDL being marched out surrounded by cops through one of the back streets, me yelling "Scum" goes ignored. This is followed by meeting a group of large guys in EDL polos holding small kids by the hand. :cursing:
Groups of Asian guys start showing up, cops get on them as soon as they can. One group apparently got surrounded and marched somewhere else.
Our people start coming out of the gardens. Others seem to get away and some are pretty intent on fucking up the EDL (I have no idea how successfully since we lost them at some point). Another confrontation with a small group of fash but they're protected by a large group of cops with dogs. (apparently more then a few people got bitten through the day. There's pictures of some of our's getting bitten, as well as a report on the EDL forum of one of them losing a chunk out of his arm. Was told another fash was bitten on the face).
A lot of fash appear on the other side of the road, a lot of us on this side, separated by cops with dogs, horses. Cops behind us in a big line, with dogs straining, we get pushed back en masse, away from the gardens southward along Portland street.

Favourite quotes and rumors
"Surely you can't be fascist if you're English" - random idiot before being secured away from a large group of us by cops.
Rumor of someone having a go at a cop with a UAF placcard and gettign away with it.
"We can't get them from here but we can always chant against the EDL" - random young kid when we're being pushed away at the end

That's my re-collection of events. It's all a bit of a blur and it's my first big anti-fascist demo so it may not be too informational. I would like to see a write-up form someone that was on the inside for the whole time.

[1968]

Probably one of the best videos, in terms of length and quality, even if it's done by some christian loons:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9bCzRf-TYU

Kicks off around 07:48

[Pogue]

I didn't attend this demo but I thought I'd do a bit of analysis from what I've heard from comrades that did.

First and foremost this is a significant demo because the EDL got a large turnout. I heard it was in the hundreds, I'll let someone inform me with a more accurate figure. Either way it was an improvement from the 20 people that attended their last two. While the numbers themselves aren't incredibly freightening (we've seen more fascists on the street in Britain and dealt with them), its going to give them a confidence boost at a time when people were predicting they'd begin to wind down.

However I never beleived the idea that they would just go away anyway so thats hardly a big deal. I think another significant thing is that we still did out-number them, and also that our lot again didn't backdown. I've heard reports of hand to hand fighting which went in our favour which is obviously positive as I hope for alot of people it dispels the myth that anyone in a Lacoste jacket with a rough voice is harder than you.

I think what we can take from this is that we have to continue having big mobilisations against them in which people are ready and willing to do what it takes and also defend themselves. I'd like to encourage discussion on what comrades who were actually there thought, and I would also like to encourage people in getting involved in stopping these muppets in the future.

[Holden Caulfield]

Check Here (http://lancasteruaf.blogspot.com/2009/10/manchester-demonstration-updates.html)
From Lancaster Unity a shitty(ish) group with a very informative website

point of order on this one, the picture of the Hull National Front is taken in Newcastle, I would say at least a year ago. That is unless Manchester Council decided to erect a carbon copy of Grey's Monument.

Sorry if that pic gives anybody the wrong impression, how foolish of me to take what I saw on a Searchlight friendly site at face value. There could well have been NF there, but that pic aint of them if they were.

[Anaximander]

I'd love to watch that video, 1968, but the fucker talking makes me gag.

Sounds like and EDL sympathizer..

edit: didn't notice you said skip ahead. Thanks for the vid.

[Fidel Follower]

I was there on the day and was with the Rev poster, Anton, through out much of the day so his story is very similar to mine. However, there was reports that the EDL's numbers were in the hundreds but from the sectioned off, police protected escort they had, it seemed that they had around 70 maximum. Anyone else got a more accurate figure? The trouble was that it was hard to tell who was there in support of the EDL (and members?) or who were just by standers in England shirts and so on.

I thought the turn-out on our side was very good and there was a lot of active anti-fascists there who were willing to stand their ground and fight. The trouble was that the majority of the protesters were kettled into Picc gardens so couldn't confront the small groups of EDL that were obviously looking for trouble. This is not a dig at the anti-fascist movement as the Police did have the gardens locked down very tightly.
There was just a few hairy situations were we found ourself out numbered and wishing we had more of a 'black bloc' behind us.
Just some written out thoughts.

[Rory]

point of order on this one, the picture of the Hull National Front is taken in Newcastle, I would say at least a year ago. That is unless Manchester Council decided to erect a carbon copy of Grey's Monument.

Sorry if that pic gives anybody the wrong impression, how foolish of me to take what I saw on a Searchlight friendly site at face value. There could well have been NF there, but that pic aint of them if they were.

However Holden, if you weren't so quick to bash UAF you would realise that the picture has a big red arrow pointing to a particular nazi, who presumably is active in EDL. The aim of this is to show that although the EDL spouts bullshit about not being a nazi group, it clearly is. Do you think that's a wrong thing to do? As someone who knows ever so much about anti-fascist activity you would also know that this photo was taken last April on the NF's St George's Day rally, or maybe you're just an internet anti-fascist? So cut your shit and stop lashing out needlessly at UAF.

Sorry, I just didn't want people to be foolish and take what you said on face value.

[Holden Caulfield]

However Holden, if you weren't so quick to bash UAF you would realise that the picture has a big red arrow pointing to a particular nazi, who presumably is active in EDL. The aim of this is to show that although the EDL spouts bullshit about not being a nazi group, it clearly is. Do you think that's a wrong thing to do? As someone who knows ever so much about anti-fascist activity you would also know that this photo was taken last April on the NF's St George's Day rally, or maybe you're just an internet anti-fascist? So cut your shit and stop lashing out needlessly at UAF.

Sorry, I just didn't want people to be foolish and take what you said on face value.

I didn't last out, i simply scanned the article and posted it, then scanned it again before I closed the window. I don't think I lash out at UAF needlessly, I don't think I lashed out at Lancaster Unity needlessly, most articles they post are from a range of sources from the Telegraph to Hope Not Hate to UAF. I browse their site all the time, its a good sight.

My apologies for not knowing when the picture was taken, they do it every year, apart from last year when they simply stood about and then pissed off.

If you want to carry on your personal vendetta with me do it in private.
If you want to debate my stance on UAF be my guest start a thread, you wil quickly find I dont just bash them, i have my analysis of the group and will be glad to share it, again.
If you think I'm not fit to be mod start the process to have me removed.

EDIT: If you are going to answer this post do it on my profile please, this thread is for our bickering.

[Anton]

There was just a few hairy situations were we found ourself out numbered and wishing we had more of a 'black bloc' behind us.
Just some written out thoughts.
well put mate
btw: EDL roman salutes http://www.flickr.com/photos/thetaker/4001122055/

[AlMack]

UAF were disgusting, grassing people in left right and centre

[Spawn of Stalin]

For serious? How so?

[MaoTseHelen]

Grassing?

[1968]

another video of it 'kicking off':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0Pd3Tz2Z54&feature=player_embedded

[1968]

The ugly face of the EDL. They're the NF bootboys of the 21st century. Lots of boneheads amongst the casuals. Only one non white face. Lots of "Fuck off back home" and "communist scum" chants. English anti fascists should examine the footage and try to spot BNP/BPP/WNP/NF activists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibjDjv497M4

[nuisance]

Grassing?
Giving information to authorities, so informing.

[Anton]

pigs vs fash
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcXVBTxapLE

[Spawn of Stalin]

As much as I loath the state and everything that comes with it I must say it is nice to see the police beating on the right people for once.

[Patchd]

As much as I loath the state and everything that comes with it I must say it is nice to see the police beating on the right people for once.
Not at all, they were beating us as badly. It was a real shame by the end of the night, the amount of fascists there were. Anti-fascism needs to be stepped up, communities defended, all of which to be taken seriously.

UAF were crap as always, Weyman Bennett was thanking the police and applauding us for not using violence, when in fact there had been many scuffles around Piccadilly gardens and many attempts by the main bloc to push through to get to the fascists.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Not at all, they were beating us as badly. It was a real shame by the end of the night, the amount of fascists there were. Anti-fascism needs to be stepped up, communities defended, all of which to be taken seriously.

UAF were crap as always, Weyman Bennett was thanking the police and applauding us for not using violence, when in fact there had been many scuffles around Piccadilly gardens and many attempts by the main bloc to push through to get to the fascists.

That is very disappointing to hear. More people need to get out on the streets and fight these groups. What was this grassing the UAF were doing?

[Spawn of Stalin]

Seriously, I find the UAF leadership sickening, so much wasted potential among their ranks, they could be such a good group if things were just a little different. They claim the heritage of militant anti-fascism and yet have no problem getting chummy with the cops. I'd love to see a chunk of their members split off to form their own independent group.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Seriously, I find the UAF leadership sickening, so much wasted potential among their ranks, they could be such a good group if things were just a little different. They claim the heritage of militant anti-fascism and yet have no problem getting chummy with the cops. I'd love to see a chunk of their members split off to form their own independent group.

That is simply unacceptable. Militancy is what is needed to stop these fascist groups gaining more support. A lot of their leadership is misleaded and deluded on how to tackle fascism.

[JohannGE]

PROTESTS which brought more than 2,000 demonstrators to the streets of Manchester have cost the city as much as £800,000,

The M.E.N. has learned that town hall and police chiefs, faced with picking up the bill for looking after the demos, plan to ask the home secretary for a change in the law that would ban protests where violence is expected.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1166779_protests_could_cost_city_800000

[Stranger Than Paradise]

pigs vs fash
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcXVBTxapLE

Fash vs fash then?

Disappointing to see so many from the EDL there in Manchester, was a fraction of that much in Harrow. How big was the anti-fascist turnout in Manchester, it does not seem that we outnumber them by much, that is essentially the key, they piss off once they know they're heavily outnumbered.

[Patchd]

It's a shame as well that the media are labelling us all as UAF, but then I guess that's what happens when they concentrate their 'anti-fascist' efforts around working with the police and trying to get their banner to the front for photo and video opportunities.

[Holden Caulfield]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_XLxL5xIl-m8/StM8CgmBe4I/AAAAAAAACgE/7lE4hdG5zm4/s320/nazisalutesatmanchester2.JPG (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_XLxL5xIl-m8/StM8CgmBe4I/AAAAAAAACgE/7lE4hdG5zm4/s1600-h/nazisalutesatmanchester2.JPG)
Thank Odin that there were no nazis with the EDL at Manchester!


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XLxL5xIl-m8/StM8JFDx-OI/AAAAAAAACgM/Qs4LDDueToA/s320/nazisalutesatmanchester1.JPG (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XLxL5xIl-m8/StM8JFDx-OI/AAAAAAAACgM/Qs4LDDueToA/s1600-h/nazisalutesatmanchester1.JPG)
Erm...


Protests which brought more than 2,000 demonstrators to the streets of Manchester have cost the city as much as £800,000, the M.E.N. can reveal.

Piccadilly Gardens was locked down by police as English Defence League (EDL) protesters faced off against opposing Unite Against Fascism (UAF) demonstrators for five hours on Saturday afternoon. The M.E.N. has learned that town hall and police chiefs, faced with picking up the bill for looking after the demos, plan to ask the home secretary for a change in the law that would ban protests where violence is expected.

Forty-eight men were arrested, most on suspicion of public order offences, and 13 people injured, including one seriously and three suffering dog bites. At its worst, sticks and railings were thrown and police vans battered while officers clashed with troublemakers as they tried to pull them out of the demo.

EDL members, who claim to oppose 'radical Islam', have been responsible for violent protests elsewhere in the country. They made Nazi salutes and sang patriotic songs. UAF supporters, staging a counter protest, maintained a non-stop anti-fascist chant.

A tense atmosphere prevailed as the two factions were separated by a police line with officers on horseback and in riot gear. Both sides - around 500 EDL and 1,500 UAF - traded insults and there were regular surges against the police line. Pockets of trouble broke out but were quickly stopped by police before EDL supporters were moved away from Piccadilly Gardens and escorted to bus and train stations by officers shortly before 5pm - five hours after the protest began.

The police have been praised for the success of a huge operation understood to have involved 500 officers. But it has left the Greater Manchester Police Authority with a bill of over £200,000, in cluding around £21,000 on an extra 300 officers, the M.E.N. has learnt.

Senior insiders in the city estimate that the protest has cost Manchester as a whole up to £800,000 in planning, staffing and community liaison work which included police officers and council staff going into schools and speaking to the leaders of the region's mosques.

The figure also includes substantial losses to businesses around Piccadilly Gardens after many had to close. Others, including Debenhams and Primark, reported a 'considerable' drop in takings. Debenhams said they also had to bring in extra security to keep staff safe.

Both the ambulance service and police had to bring in relief from outside forces, including officers from Lancashire police to staff the rugby league final at Old Trafford which kicked off at 5.30pm.

Manchester council had unsuccessfully applied to get this weekend's demonstration banned after trouble during a previous demo in Birmingham. Legislation currently provides no scope to halt peaceful gath erings in a public place, although the police can step in where demonstrators are suspected of breaking the law.

Manchester's deputy leader Coun Jim Battle praised an 'outstanding' police operation, but said: "The police marshalled this demonstration extremely well, allowing people to go about their business, but the operation was very expensive in terms of resources.

"While we recognise the right to demonstrate, what we saw with the EDL yesterday was, in effect, a gathering of football hooligans who had to be marshalled in that way in order to keep the peace. We will raise this with the home secretary and ask him to explore whether there are ways he can intervene.

"We paid a high price but fortunately we didn't pay the price paid in Birmingham of violence spilling out on to our streets."

Greater Manchester Police Authority chairman Coun Paul Murphy added: "This was a quite brilliantly executed operation but the law needs to be reassessed. I am left with a bill I didn't budget for and the dilemma of whether, if this group ask to protest again, we have to let them.

"There's a difference between peaceful and violent protest and I think that's where the law has lost its way. It is prepared to support people who have a record of violence against the interests of those go ing about their business.

"It's probably the price we pay for democracy but it's a hell of a price when you look at the bill. I want to be able to refuse a group if there is a fair and reasonable assumption of violence."

Chief Supt Gerry Donnellan, in charge of Saturday's operation for GMP, commended the wider community for taking heed of advice to stay away from the protest.

He said: "The day was a culmination of a lot of hard work and detailed planning by a large number of people. It was a tremendous example of police working in partnership with other agencies and event organisers for a successful outcome.

"I've got a responsibility to try and facilitate a peaceful protest and a lot of time and thought went into doing that. There was potential for it to be come more volatile than it did. It presented us with a big challenge and some big decisions were made and we were able to handle it in a controlled manner.

"I think there were some minor issues with the protesters but they were dealt with in a timely and appropriate manner and we were able to remove troublemakers quickly."

Manchester Evening News (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1166779_protests_could_cost_city_800000)

[Melbourne Lefty]

hmmm....

Time was any march by anyone even vaguely racist or even just islamaphobic through the centre of Manc would be swamped by tens of thousands of left wingers.

Sigh... Times change.

Hopefully this is their high point.

The BNP have distanced themselves from this, but they must be loving it inside, getting people to fight the left who publicly say that they are not BNP. Just lets them paint themselves as the "Moderate" party that doesnt associate with Yobs who fight in the street.

[luchtoibre]

heard next part of edl's 'tour'is at the end of october.anyone know more details .?

[Pogue]

there is swansea on the 17th of oct and newport on the 24th. check the other thread.

[POUM]

A word of advice to all leftist antifascists.

When EDL stages a protest against "radical islam" dont stage a protest against the EDL which is staging a protest against radical islam.

Stage a demo,for example, 'United Workers for Economical Justice" or something similar
A demo which would essentialy be a counter-demo to the EDL but would have a constructive agenda as well - uniting the local community,workers of all creeds in a common goal - fighting exploitation and capitalism. So you would in the same time be promoting workers soldiarity which directly opposes the xenophobe EDL, while gathering workers around a socialist agenda. Ofcourse this should be done with a moderate socialist rethoric so it would not avert 'apolitical' workers.
In the same time, the public would view this as something productive,since almost everyone is affected by the crisis,and not all are affected by the EDL.

[aty]

A word of advice to all leftist antifascists.

When EDL stages a protest against "radical islam" dont stage a protest against the EDL which is staging a protest against radical islam.

Stage a demo,for example, 'United Workers for Economical Justice" or something similar
A demo which would essentialy be a counter-demo to the EDL but would have a constructive agenda as well - uniting the local community,workers of all creeds in a common goal - fighting exploitation and capitalism. So you would in the same time be promoting workers soldiarity which directly opposes the xenophobe EDL, while gathering workers around a socialist agenda. Ofcourse this should be done with a moderate socialist rethoric so it would not avert 'apolitical' workers.
In the same time, the public would view this as something productive,since almost everyone is affected by the crisis,and not all are affected by the EDL.
That is how we do it in Sweden, first a demonstration against the right wing politics, capitalism, racism etc. Then we go togheter to the fascists demonstration to oppose them. By doing so we have sat the agenda for the day because we can gather much more people than the fascists.

[luchtoibre]

there is swansea on the 17th of oct and newport on the 24th. check the other thread.
heard talk of glasgow and leeds.whats the other thread.?

[Holden Caulfield]

When EDL stages a protest against "radical islam" dont stage a protest against the EDL which is staging a protest against radical islam.


While I agree with you and our Swedish comrade I think its right to protest against them.

They aren't protesting Radical Islam, the left has protested radical Islam in the anti-Iran protests that have taken place for years. These protests are made up of Iranian exiles and the left.

The EDL's protests aren't against radical islam. They are against Asians, brown people. The dynamic of the group is racist in so much as it goes 'Muslim/Asian=Terrorist". Its the type of person who says Islam is a opressive religion which is true but says it from a different point than us. It says it to divide us and to opress them. Its like when philosophers back in the day justified British Imperialism by saying other cultures were backwards, were savage, or whatever.

Pogue was at an EDL coutner demo and was pushed out the way while an EDL guy tried to hit the Asian guy standing on the counter demo behind him.

[JohannGE]

Newsnight item on EDL from Monday night:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8303786.stm

Seems to confirm that they are more hooligan than political. If so I can't help but wonder if street confrontation might be exactly what they want.

[Spawn of Stalin]

Of course it's what they want, although there are elements of racism in the EDL and they obviously like to attack Asians, I doubt they'd pass up a fight with anyone regardless of skin colour. I don't see why the left should back down from a fight, UAF can have their counter-protests if they think it'll make a difference.

[Nightingale27]

The numbers took me by surprise. As I can not do links type
EDL March Manchester 10 Oct 09, into Youtube. Never in a million years expected that from a group 3 months old.

By the way Harrow had nothing to do whatsoever with the EDL, that was some other group (their name escapes me). From what I can see (as someone who is sitting on the fence at the time being over this). At Harrow and Birmingham most of the trouble and violence was caused by the Muslim youth who may have their own agendas.

[Holden Caulfield]

By the way Harrow had nothing to do whatsoever with the EDL, that was some other group (their name escapes me). From what I can see (as someone who is sitting on the fence at the time being over this). At Harrow and Birmingham most of the trouble and violence was caused by the Muslim youth who may have their own agendas


The other group I forget their names are the same as EDL, there is little politcal difference and I doubt difference of 'membership'

The Asian Youths were defending their community in Harrow and in Brum were simply not turning the other cheek. We know what went on on these events and the Muslim youths are not to blame for any trouble yes they fought in the streets but against people coming along for that reason and to basically label all Muslims as terrorists.

Are you with a party or group comrade?

[JohannGE]

UAF can have their counter-protests if they think it'll make a difference.

Of course they can. I would hope that some consideration would be given to what sort of difference might be acheived though. If the difference made is to attract more followers to the EDL I would suggest that counter protests might be counter productive.

Hooliganism has been severly restricted at football matches. I fear that there could well be thousands of fraustrated hooligans around the country who would welcome the chance of regular punchups and the notoriety that would bring.

I think succesfuly opposing the EDL might require different tactics to those of confronting the BNP. As they have no genuine political goals they can't realy be challenged on political grounds.

I am not suggesting that I have an answer, just that I think that the opposing the EDL may not be directly comparable to opposing the BNP or any other politicaly motivated group.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

The other group I forget their names are the same as EDL, there is little politcal difference and I doubt difference of 'membership'

They were called Stop Islamification of Europe.

[Irish commie]

Seriously, I find the UAF leadership sickening, so much wasted potential among their ranks, they could be such a good group if things were just a little different. They claim the heritage of militant anti-fascism and yet have no problem getting chummy with the cops. I'd love to see a chunk of their members split off to form their own independent group.

Its very easy to criticise the UAF, im not there biggest fan but they organise counter demos and get people out onto the street to stop the fascists, as of this accusation of getting chummy with the police what other option do they have do we not want the police too to be anti fascist ever heard of the phrase killing with kindness or would you prefer the police to beat upon the anti fascists like they used to as they hav been brainwashed into thinking tht u UAF are loonies and that the EDL actually making sense.

Alot of talk and not alot of action.

[POUM]

While I agree with you and our Swedish comrade I think its right to protest against them.

They aren't protesting Radical Islam, the left has protested radical Islam in the anti-Iran protests that have taken place for years. These protests are made up of Iranian exiles and the left.

The EDL's protests aren't against radical islam. They are against Asians, brown people. The dynamic of the group is racist in so much as it goes 'Muslim/Asian=Terrorist". Its the type of person who says Islam is a opressive religion which is true but says it from a different point than us. It says it to divide us and to opress them. Its like when philosophers back in the day justified British Imperialism by saying other cultures were backwards, were savage, or whatever.

Pogue was at an EDL coutner demo and was pushed out the way while an EDL guy tried to hit the Asian guy standing on the counter demo behind him.


I know what their agend is, what i am saying, countering them should be a secondary goal,and should be done through real gestures like uniting the local british and muslim/imigrant workers in a protest against capitalism/governement or even street violence, instead of only trying to block them and shout at them while divided by the police. That's not a bad idea,but should be secondary.
That's a way to get:
a) positive feedback from a third-party perspective
b) uniting the local working community
c) spreading socialist ideas
d) diminishing the importance od EDL because you would be _partly_ ignoring them,if you get my meaning - they wouldnt have the spotlight

[Irish commie]

That is simply unacceptable. Militancy is what is needed to stop these fascist groups gaining more support. A lot of their leadership is misleaded and deluded on how to tackle fascism.

I think considering that they have been fighting fascism sucessfully since the 80s they might just know a touch more about fighting fascism then you. These fascists get support because there is no left alternative to Labour which means putting aside our diffrences for and forming a left alternative which is the opposite of the thinking of our comrades in the CPGB.

[QUOTE=Of course it's what they want, although there are elements of racism in the EDL and they obviously like to attack Asians, I doubt they'd pass up a fight with anyone regardless of skin colour. I don't see why the left should back down from a fight, UAF can have their counter-protests if they think it'll make a difference.[/QUOTE]

So what should be done fight them? and have them potray it in the media that this is a race war between white people and muslims and allow them to gain support. Just plain silly.

[Spawn of Stalin]

The police are tools of the state, they're no friend of the working class and they're no friend of mine. When I hear people accusing UAF of grassing people up, well, it just makes me think that they're probably just a load of scumbags. To paraphrase Tony Benn, UAF has never been an anti-fascist group, but it's always had anti-fascists in it, just as there are some Christians in the Church, it's an exact parallel. If UAF want to oppose fascism that's fine, but don't do it by getting David Cameron to sign your fucking petitions, as I've said before, UAF is a goldmine for potentially good Comrades, but the extent of the actual organisation's anti-fascist activities seems to be calling the BNP Nazis and telling everyone that they deny the holocaust, as if nobody already knew that.

As for opposing the EDL, we need the left to put their fucking placards down and smack the shit out of these racists, quite frankly. The BUF weren't defeated by liberal orgarnisations like UAF, and the EDL won't be either, because they love the attention that UAF gives them. If you're going to oppose them, do it properly, these people are violent, they want a fight, give them a fight.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

I think considering that they have been fighting fascism sucessfully since the 80s they might just know a touch more about fighting fascism then you. These fascists get support because there is no left alternative to Labour which means putting aside our diffrences for and forming a left alternative which is the opposite of the thinking of our comrades in the CPGB.

Ok I'm all for that but I want that group to represent the working class which the police force is an enemy to. I want these anti-facists groups to present the revolutionary alternative.

[EDL]

Are you lot fucking retarded? Some saying there was 20 at other demos? Some are saying there was 70 at manchester? Are you deaf blind and stupid? There was clearly over 1,000 EDL Supporters. Our great nation will wake up one day.
We are not fascists. We just want Islamic Extremists of our streets, Fuck you nazi scum.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Are you lot fucking retarded? Some saying there was 20 at other demos? Some are saying there was 70 at manchester? Are you deaf blind and stupid? There was clearly over 1,000 EDL Supporters. Our great nation will wake up one day.
We are not fascists. We just want Islamic Extremists of our streets, Fuck you nazi scum.

The means to which being assaulting random asian people?

You are a fascist organisation and you are not welcome here.

[Rjevan]

haha we assault random asians? If only you know what really happened!
Let me guess, a heavily armed mob suddenly attacked you without a warning while shouting Anti-British parols and slaying brave comrades?


Our great nation will wake up one day.
Haha, no fascists, right? Ever heard of certain "Deutschland, erwache!"-nazi solgans? :lol:
Just one thing left to say:

Fuck you nazi scum!

[Pogue]

haha we assault random asians? If only you know what really happened!

I'd say we could settle this on the streets but I highly doubt your anything more than an internet activist are you?

[Sasha]

The other group I forget their names are the same as EDL, there is little politcal difference and I doubt difference of 'membership'They were called Stop Islamification of Europe.

sioe is actualy quite an difrent kind of fish, its started (quite succesfully) by a couple in denmark and was for a while an hype in the islamophobic blogospehere here in the netherlands and a bit in germany. they tried to organise some demonstrations but where quickly stubbet out by both an active campaing from antifa and their own incompetence, espacely their constant habbit of atracting extreme rightwing youth wich doesnt go down well with the dutch and german public (they still have ties with the german pro-koln and the not openly antisemimte leadership of the vlaamsblok/belang (flemish blok).
its seems that they now decided in england to raise what was over here their biggest downfall (links with fascist bootboys) to an official tactic.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

haha we assault random asians? If only you know what really happened!

Once again, fuck off this board, you are not welcome. Dirty fascist ****.

[Irish commie]

Once again, fuck off this board, you are not welcome. Dirty fascist ****.
couldnt hav put it better myself.

EDL u r a deluded idiot can u not see who the real enemies are? hav ever met an actual muslim you fucking idiot, they are some of the best kindest most thoughtful people i have ever met. So your not a fascist organisation? so whats with the nazi salutes. I would like muslims in this country more than scum like you any day.

[Irish commie]

I like how the apperance of a fascist can unite us so well, whatever our aims are similar we should unite and smash capitalism.

[luchtoibre]

Its very easy to criticise the UAF, im not there biggest fan but they organise counter demos and get people out onto the street to stop the fascists, as of this accusation of getting chummy with the police what other option do they have do we not want the police too to be anti fascist ever heard of the phrase killing with kindness or would you prefer the police to beat upon the anti fascists like they used to as they hav been brainwashed into thinking tht u UAF are loonies and that the EDL actually making sense.

Alot of talk and not alot of action.

i hope you don't mean by "being chummy with the police",as grassing on 'other' anti-fascists.if you think thats gonna make the police anti-fascist/racist,then youre having a laugh.anl,swp and uaf tactics won't do fuck all,the only practical method of fighting fascism is direct action,in all forms.

[bcbm]

Once again, fuck off this board, you are not welcome. Dirty fascist ****.

please don't use the word ****, it is considered discriminatory language on this board.

[AlMack]

not in this manchester-centric thread tho