Postal Strike

[Stranger Than Paradise]

I found this article on LibCom very interesting, I myself had little idea what the postal strike was about, i'm sure there are others that will appreciate this:



In detail: national Royal Mail strike

http://libcom.org/files/imagecache/article/images/news/cwu[1].jpg (http://libcom.org/files/images/news/cwu[1].jpg)

As postal workers vote overwhelmingly for nationwide industrial action, two workers explain the causes of the dispute.

Regional disputes over working practices and conditions have escalated over the past 15 weeks, and now 76% of Communication Workers Union (CWU) members have voted in favour of national walkouts.

The Commune spoke to two union representatives about the root causes of the dispute, which have been misrepresented by the mainstream media:
THERE’S A WAR GOING ON…
Mark Palfrey, CWU Divisional Rep (2nd October 2009)
Myself and another divisional officer, Martin Walsh, represent 12,000 CWU members across London. London is most to the forefront in the dispute. There are other areas of the country, Scotland, Bristol, Plymouth, areas of the West country, but predominantly it’s London. The reason for that, we would say, is that our members enjoy the best terms and conditions, have the best agreements, and that’s where Royal Mail (RM) have attacked the hardest.

We’ve been in this dispute now for over 15 weeks. How it started is very complex, but it’s been simplified by the media and RM saying what the dispute is about is our “failure to modernise”. In fact, our last national dispute in 2007 was resolved by an agreement called Pay and Modernisation, and on the back of that agreement we entered into local negotiations which involved the loss of a significant amount of jobs. On the basis of us improving attendances, increasing productivity and reducing costs, what we got out of the agreement was improvements in people’s terms and conditions, particularly people moving onto four-day weeks without loss of pay. That had to go through an audit process guaranteeing that it was cost-effective, it achieved savings, etc. RM signed up to that in October 2007.

But since then RM has made a number of policy changes. One is they will no longer “Pay for Change”. We previously had deals where the staff would share in the savings that RM made, in the form of a bonus – so for instance if they saved £20,000 operationally in a sorting office, RM would receive £10,000 and the staff would get £10,000 between them. It was 50-50. But now they will no longer Pay for Change, as they call it. Basically they decided that they needed to rip out cost on the front line, and London would be the area that they would target. They would revert our members back from any four-day weeks back to a five-day week and reduce earnings and jobs. So we made the decision in London that we weren’t going to have that.

Basically, RM completely went back on an agreement they had made – there’s no other way of putting it. They’ve broken their own agreement. They’ve broken the terms of the existing national agreement, and they’ve broken large numbers of the local agreements our branches have. Since about June of this year they’ve introduced what they call revisions, which are basically job reductions. They’ve done this by what they call executive action, which means without agreement.

Another issue is what they call “absorption”, which came in gradually after we defeated team working in the late 1990s. What that means is you’ve got to take on someone else’s round at no extra pay – if someone can’t do their round for whatever reason, their work is just “absorbed” into yours. What people are being asked to do are unreasonable levels of absorption. If you’ve got the right agreements, protection, you can do that, but that’s another thing RM have just run ahead with.

The dispute is degenerating into unprecedented levels of bullying and intimidation. RM has come up with its own unagreed work standards. They’re unachievable work standards that they’re bringing in, they’re not by agreement. RM and the media would let you believe that our people use “Spanish practices” and all this stuff – but we’ve seen thousands of jobs go, people are working harder and harder. In a typical delivery office a revision of work load will come in and our people are expected to do that work within the same time span, when it’s additional work. When they find out that they can’t, whether it’s a weight issue of carrying the mail or their work load is unmanageable, they are then bullied, intimidated, threatened and in a lot of cases taken off pay. That means they’re not paid for the day and threatened with being disciplined under the conduct code. People are filmed by managers using their mobiles whilst out delivering, and in work there’s a whole range of issues taken up by management in order to try to crush our members. The internal procedures are absolutely useless to deal with it – they’re only used against reps.
What it’s basically about is that each year now the RM budget is reduced by 10%, so each year each function, each office has to reduce its cost by 10%. We used to share in some of the bonus for achieving that, but now the only people who receive a bonus if those targets are achieved are the managers. The whole culture of the industry is based on achieving these targets, from Crozier at the top down – that’s how he earned £3m last year. So we’re a company that’s posted a profit of £25m during one of the worst economic recessions that the world has seen since the 1930s – and then offers its workers a nil per cent pay increase, has seen the closure of its final salary scheme, with no reward for productivity and the loss of 60,000 jobs since 2003, in the words of Adam Crozier himself.
A lot of our members have seen their pay reduced through loss of overtime and other factors by £4-6000. At the same time they have to work 46 days more a year – and work harder when they’re there. RM’s slogan is “It’s a Great Place to Work” – well, it’s no longer that. Workers are being put on jobs that they wouldn’t necessarily sign up for. We used to have what’s called a “re-sign” agreement based on seniority, meaning you can select your job, but now even when we haven’t agreed to it management have allocated jobs in a way that means, in some cases, people who’ve done 20 to 30 years in the job have been given the harder routes – things like that. Rank and file postal workers are very angry, very frustrated – they feel that they’ve been used by the company, not valued, they’ve seen their standard of living drop, no job security, pensions attacked. There’s a lot of anger, particularly anger towards this government.

Another major issue is the pension. The new chairman who’s been brought in, Donald Bryden, has already said that if the deficit is higher than previously posted, which it will be, anywhere between £10 and £15 billion, they will close the current scheme, so we are going to be in an even worse situation. That isn’t even the final salary scheme, that’s the replacement scheme – so that’s the end of it, finished, there will be no pension scheme.

The deficit is now £10-15bn, because RM had a 13-year holiday from contributions. But the assets of the current pension scheme are over £25bn – bigger than some economies in the Third World – so you can understand why the government would like to get its hands on it. And that would not cost the taxpayer one penny – we’re not asking the taxpayer to pay anything – we’re asking the government to underwrite our pensions, and that’s no more no less than they owe the company.
What happened a number of years ago was that RM were forced by PostCom to pay the current deficit back within 20 years – and in order to do that they have to pay £300m a year on top of their contributions. So that’s 30p of every pound in revenue that they get – that’s why they’re bankrupt. So RM management aren’t just nasty people – they’re running an industry that has been milked by government and placed under unfair competition by government.

That’s what is really hurting the business – the competition. The government has creamed off the mail to private companies and then put it back into our system for us to deliver at 13 pence a go, which means that you’ve got volume up and revenue down. None of these private companies would ever want to take over the running of the mail. What they’ve got is called Downstream Access where RM will actually post the mail, for 13p. It’s called the “Final Mile”. If you look at your letter that comes through your front door now, not many times will you see RM in the corner. I’m talking about average mail that’s generated from councils or gas and utilities – these companies now do our mail. So what we’ve got is unfair regulation where we’re subsidising the competition – it’s not a level playing field. These companies don’t want to deliver to council estates – they want the network, they want the mail centres, they want all the lucrative bits.

Now unless the government deal with that issue and make RM able to perform on a level playing field then we are just going to degenerate into this process where the end state is that the public see a later and later service. Less and less jobs, worse and worse service.
But RM top management buys into all this. What they’d like to do is to copy what’s called the Dutch model used by TNT, who run the Dutch post office – basically it’s a predominantly part-time workforce, mail is delivered at 4 o’clock in the afternoon, 87% of the people employed in Holland in the Post Office there are on 16-hour or less contracts. And that’s no way to run an industry. This is what the British public is set to suffer under “modernisation”. You used to get two deliveries a day. RM and the government then said that they were doing away with the second delivery. Well, they did away with the first delivery – you don’t get your mail at 8.30 am. They want to deliver that mail later, because the later they deliver the mail the more stuff they can put through the machines.
In RM, because it’s a 24-hr service, you have to have some form of plan and structure. But what RM have got is chaos management, where instead of sitting down and saying we need to plan deliveries, and the delivery time is going to be from 9 o’clock to 2 o’clock or whatever, so how do we then ensure that the work arrives in order to meet that schedule? But what we’ve got at the moment is just cost-driven, the business is looking to reduce costs, that’s what it’s always about.
Unions are often accused of surrounding themselves by militants – what Adam Crozier, the highest-paid public servant in the UK, has done is surrounded himself with hawks. You’ve got a situation where anyone who’s a bit pragmatic on the Board is seen as being “weak”. So we haven’t even got hawks and doves, we’ve got all hawks. And these people aren’t in it for the duration, they’re in it for five years, six years, eight years, and they move on. They don’t build anything, they don’t create anything, they just destroy what’s in front of them – the British Post Office, which for 350 years was the envy of the world. The bottom line dictates – there’s no looking at the service.

I’m not saying that the people we were dealing with 10, 15, 20 years ago were benevolent, but they came from a RM background. Some of them, their fathers had been postmen, they had been postmen, and they actually cared about the industry. I don’t believe these people care. They only care whether their targets have been achieved. If their targets are so far diluted that they can achieve them, then there’s millions of pounds to be earned for them. And that’s the way industry’s been created – in the health service, everywhere – everything’s based on targets. Budgets and targets are the mantra.

All the “Total Quality Management” values are there, they’re enshrined in the boardroom. In TQM everything’s against cost. If anything interferes with the bottom line, whatever you’re providing in your sorting office, if it “isn’t necessary” or it can be delayed. It’s what’s known as lean production – it’s come in from manufacturing industry to service industries like the Post Office. Part of it is supposed to be about “worker empowerment” – RM often go on about “empowerment”. But I’ve worked for RM since 1979, and I have never seen such a centrally controlled RM. From the top to the bottom, there is no deviation – if you deviate from their line you’re removed. The Iron Curtain may have been removed but it’s alive and well in RM and its name’s the RM board. And that’s how they operate.

There are a lot of issues the public doesn’t realise. I haven’t got sympathy for RM, but I understand the problem – without government intervention there is no solution to the problems we’ve got. What we’ve got is unfair competition, introduced and sustained by the government since 2003, when regulation was brought in, then since 2006 when this government liberalised the UK postal market.

RM keeps claiming that the problem is a reduction in volume – there is a reduction, but not to the degree they’re saying. Are people using the Internet more? Using texts? Yes, of course they are. Are people sending emails? Yes, of course they are. But what’s equally generated out of all that is – there’s a jargon name for it now – Fulfilment. They call it Fulfilment where basically you go on Amazon, and we get a package. So we get the benefit. The profile of the mail is changing – it goes to packages and different types of advertisements and things.
We’re in a major recession. So of course revenue’s dropped, volume’s dropped. But if you look at the history of RM, you will see that it survives those dips, and as soon as the economy picks up people start advertising again. Whether or not it’ll ever go back to what it was previously I don’t know, but the problem is everything’s about short-termism. Nothing’s built to look at the future. It’s all aimed at downsizing and selling off the silverware, selling off the premises and relocating in some industrial estate in the middle of nowhere.

It was in response to all these problems that the London Division balloted our members in late June and got a 91% yes vote for strike action. Since then we’ve staged or will have staged fifteen 24-hour strikes. Even RM has admitted to our national negotiators that the strikes are still being supported by 95% of our members. That figure shows the level of support that we have had and continue to have. Some have taken more action, depending on what’s going on in each locality. Basically RM has declared war on its workforce and particularly the postal workers in London.
The members’ resolve has strengthened and hardened over the few last weeks. We saw a slight bit of drift after June, when the strike started, because the work tends to be lighter during the summer, but now the members are supporting the strikes just as much as they did in the outset, and those you speak to in the meetings are adamant. They’ve now lost over £1000 in wages, but they’re adamant that they’re going to see it out to the bitter end, and that’s before we even get into the national ballot declared on 8th October – we’re confident of getting a big Yes vote nationally on that. So our members’ resolve is magnificent, their support has been magnificent, and they understand the issues, that’s why they’re so strong.

Because of the privatisation issue that was going on last year, we passed an emergency motion at the 2009 CWU general conference that should privatisation go in we would cease to fund the Labour Party. That’s still on the stocks. However, because of all that’s gone on during the dispute, London postal workers have demanded that they be balloted on that issue. Under the rules we can only do that on a consultative basis, but we have, and the results are that overwhelmingly people blame the government. We don’t want to lose our political voice, but we feel that we should not be funding the Labour Party or “New Labour”. And that has come from the ordinary postal workers. It isn’t a political initiative from anyone, it isn’t being driven by what I would call the usual suspects, it’s come from the picket lines, it’s come from the sorting offices, and it’s come from their experience of what this government has done to our industry. It’s one of their main frustrations. Speak to any postal worker about what they think of RM, about the government, and they’ll tell you quite clearly.

There’s been a lot of public opposition to this dispute, helped along by the media. The notion is that postal workers are acting deliberately just to be disruptive. I know how false that is, because I have to deal with some of the hardships – terrible hardships people are going through. Some of our part-time members who only work 20 hours a week – when they take a day’s strike it’s a quarter of their pay gone. But they’re still solid, because of the issues. The struggle is not that we want to destroy this industry. We want to see a growing RM, but what the British public don’t realise is liberalisation was brought in to reduce the cost to big business.
How these top 50 companies – I’m talking about outfits like HSBC, massive, multi-multi-millionaire companies – were able to cut their costs in half…That wasn’t some European thing dreamt up by some bureaucrat in Brussels, it was worked up by big business – they went to our government. As a result of their so-called “liberalisation”, requested by big business, granted by this government, we’ve lost tens of thousands of jobs. Britain now, in my opinion – you tell me who’s got a good job? We ain’t all going to be nurses, we ain’t all going to be trained – you used to be able to go into gas, this that and the other – the only industry that’s still left for most what I’d call working class kids is something like the Post Office. Once you kill that, where do those people go?

There’s a war going on…We’re in a war with Royal Mail, a war that we must win.

TO MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE LONDON DIVISION’S URGENTLY-NEEDED HARDSHIP FUND, SEND CHEQUES PAYABLE TO “CWU LONDON DIVISIONAL COMMITTEE” TO JOHN DENTON, CWU LONDON REGIONAL SECRETARY, SECOND FLOOR, 33-41 DALLINGTON STREET, LONDON EC1V 0BB.


“We Had Royal Mail – and Then We Let It Go”
By a North London rep.
Our office in North London is one of the “better” ones – we’ve hit our targets and saved Royal Mail (RM) significant amounts of money – right now with RM saving is the name of the game. But this year they came in and wanted more savings, and they’re cutting duties, so of course there was disagreement.

What used to happen is the company and the reps would discuss any change and the response would usually be a compromise, and if there’s no agreement it goes through stages – first stage agreement, second stage, the third stage is where the big boys come in, the full-time union reps and district managers, and they come to some arrangement. Very, very rarely they use Executive Action, which is when they just put in what they want.

Then they cut our overtime from 7 hours to 6 hours with no discussion – it was Executive Action. They came in – bypassed the union – just said “On this day we will do this” – just brought it in. So of course that angered the staff. Not only did they cut the overtime, they also cut down the rest day, which usually gets full pay, to 6 hours as well. Again, Executive Action. Didn’t speak to the union.

It means a deduction in our members’ pay. They were saying because it’s the summer months, there’s less work, we don’t need to do an hour’s sorting in the morning when we come in, or work your rest day or overtime, they take that away. You must come in at 8.00am for the overtime, instead of 6.00, and then just take the mail out. Because you’re coming in at 8.00, the walk should be sorted on the frame so all you have to do is wait for the mis-sort run – letters that get sorted wrongly. But of course the plan never works the way it should work.

Members are angry – all round London this is going on and even in some places worse than ours – and of course there’s a pay freeze as well. In October 2007, after the strike, we got a pay rise and bonus, then in 2009 a pay freeze. And what you’ve got to remember is RM is making record profits – the whole of RM is in the black for the first time. And of course the pensions are another thing as well. So when you add it all together I think people are really angry.

Even before the strikes started we decided to stop using our cars. People come in early because they want to finish early, and also they use their cars because that way they don’t have to wait for the vans to bring the mail out. You go into the sorting office, get the delivery, put it in your car. People stopped doing that and that caused uproar – it caused a substantial meltdown in the office. When they stopped using their own cars, our office didn’t have the facilities, i.e. the vans, to get the people out on time.

We call it “Do the Job Properly”. At the end of the day, it’s how the job ought to be done. It’s not even work-to-rule. We’re not going against what RM is saying – we’re having our breaks at the right time, not using our cars, coming in at six. But that caused big problems in our office. For a while people stopped doing any overtime, and of course there were times when duties were left over, not touched for one or two days. On the frames, not delivered. They called in the casuals but there was no way they could deliver it, so it was left in the office. If the postmen did that there would be instant dismissal. If I left work in the office, didn’t get it out, they’d call it “wilful delay” and I’d be sacked. But more than once, on a few occasions, duties were left in the office untouched for one or two days. We questioned management about the work, about the customers, and they said they couldn’t get it covered, so…They could not get it covered, so that was it.

Then we had the strikes – but in between that, they brought in what they called “absorption”. During the summer the volume of letters goes down, so they can collapse the duty, split it up between 5-8 people to take out before their own duties. So some workers have to do other workers’ work. They just say OK, you’re here, we’ll collapse it – you guys, you do that duty, 5-8 of you, and you go out, do that duty, come back to the office and take your own duty out.

You can imagine the workers’ reaction. They did it, but it caused big problems because the duty that is absorbed never gets done, so by the time they all came back to do their own duties they could not finish their duties in the time allotted. So work either did not go out, or they went out with the work and a lot of the work came back to the office.
So you could say all this stuff about mail being held up and all that being blamed on the postal workers was also due to absorption. It was. Absorption had a big effect, but of course RM wasn’t going to say that. It was going in conjunction with the strikes, but at the time absorption was hitting RM harder than any of the strikes.

But I don’t think that in particular was the one issue causing the most anger. I don’t think it’s just one thing. I think it’s their attitude. RM don’t want to talk to the union, they don’t care what you say, we’re bringing this in – Executive Action. There’s a set way of talking to the union which they’ve totally ignored.

But with the strikes, our daily work is a bit different than it was before. Now people come in and see all their work and I wouldn’t say they’re happy, but they see the amount of ways it’s really messed up RM and they’re quite jovial.

Of course, there’s also the issue of whether the union should go on funding Labour, the way the government have behaved. With the consultative ballot that the CWU in London has carried out, the general feeling is that we’ve been paying this money to Labour since they’ve been in power, 12 years now, and they’ve done nothing whatsoever for the postal service. It would have been better if that money was saved and put in a fund for strikes like this – then we’d have maybe some money to give to our workers.

In 1996, 1997, we had a strike over team working, and I think Mr Blair at the time told us to go back to work – he would not discuss it. We won that dispute, and team working went away, but since then it’s been a constant attack on the unions plus the pensions deficit, when RM went on a pensions holiday with the government knowing – and they were making profits all during that time. Maybe even record profits. So the question you ask is Why. No one’s ever explained it to us, no one’s really questioned why they did it. All they’ve said is It’s happened, that’s it, and we’ve got to pay for it, but no one’s said Well why did it happen?
60,000 jobs have gone in five years and still they’re seeking “change”. The 2007 strike was never fully finished. We had RM, and we let it go. We should have sorted it all out then. The union leaders caved in – the things we were fighting against then never went away – now we’re fighting again. Absorption, cuts in overtime, pensions.

The things we’re fighting against are the things they’ll say have got to stay in – that’s our biggest fear. That’s where it gets into an impasse, because the top management insist that what we won’t stand for is what has to go through. Even though the junior management know what’s going to work, the senior management won’t listen to them. We’ve got to win this next strike, we’ve got to get what we’re asking for, or this will never be resolved.



Link: http://libcom.org/news/detail-national-royal-mail-strike-09102009

[El Rojo]

a very interesting post. this kind of infomation is useful for refuting all those bourgeiose twats that say the unions are driving the RM into the ground. that would be the management, you mugs.

if the strike does go down, i think the mods should sticky this. the postal strike will be the first clash of the battle against public spending cuts which the libs/labs/tories are all planning. if the posties loose it will be like blood in the water and the ruling classes will be emboldened against other public services. also, the RM is a british institution we should go to the baricades for (not often i say that lol!) their excellent service is something many countries do not have, and we may well become on of the if we lefties don't show our solidarity

[Stranger Than Paradise]

From the BBC:



Postal strike expected next week

The union representing Royal Mail workers has said national postal strikes could begin on Thursday 22 October.

The Communication Workers Union (CWU) called on Royal Mail to agree to a last-ditch "peace plan".

But they said that if this failed, they would have "no option" but to strike.
Royal Mail said it was "very disappointed" with the move and said the union was tabling "fresh demands" rather proposing an agreement.
Business Secretary Lord Mandelson said the government was talking to both sides and called on workers to end their "lunatic proposition" of national strike action.
He told BBC News it was a "terrible message" to send to Royal Mail's customers at a time when the organisation should be introducing changes without which it had "a very poor future".

Legal notice
Last week, members of the CWU voted by three-to-one to support strike action as part of a dispute about pay, modernisation and working conditions.
The action is expected to take the form of rolling strikes, affecting different parts of the organisation on different days, rather than an all-out national strike by postal workers.
A number of localised walkouts have already been taking place across the country over the same issues for several months - with more scheduled for London on Friday.
The CWU said it would give notice of the actual national strike dates on Thursday 15 October.
By law, it must wait one week before the industrial action begins - hence the expected start date of 22 October.
Royal Mail said it would respond to the CWU's demands, but added: "If the union are serious about resolving this dispute they should immediately lift the threat of strike action."
"We're very disappointed that the CWU continues to threaten customers with national strike action and still fails to honour repeated offers to call off all strikes even though we told them two weeks ago there would be no further changes this year," said Mark Higson, Royal Mail's managing director.

'Restore confidence'
CWU deputy general secretary, Dave Ward said workers did not want to take action, "but neither are they prepared to put up with continuing attacks from a management which is failing".
"We have today written to Royal Mail making it clear that the CWU is ready to issue notice for a national strike as voted for by three quarters of postal workers.
"More importantly, we have offered what we believe is a genuine alternative to reach a lasting agreement. This is an opportunity to avoid a national strike, restore customer confidence and resolve the concerns of staff."
The deal would address issues of job security, work levels, bullying and pay, the union said.

The demands in the letter include:

Royal Mail revealing its long-term business plan
Modernisation changes being agreed rather than imposed by management
Payments for workers being linked to the firm's success
Bullying and harassment allegations being subject to an independent inquiry
The union also said the idea of meeting with third party negotiators to reach an agreement should be considered.

'Undermining recovery'
In last week's ballot, 61,623 out of a total of 80,830 workers who voted said they wanted to strike.
But Royal Mail has said 60% of postal workers working in the UK did not vote to strike.
The company and unions have been unable to resolve differences about how best to modernise the postal service.
The union insisted that the company was imposing changes onto postal workers, cutting jobs and pay, which they maintained was leading to a worsening service.
Royal Mail denied this, arguing that managers were implementing a deal agreed between the two sides, drawn up after the last national dispute two years ago.
A spokesman for the prime minister said that "a national strike would be completely self-defeating", adding Postal Affairs Minister Pat McFadden was encouraging the two parties to keep talking to each other and to try to settle the dispute.
If postal strikes are confirmed, this would be a "serious knock to business confidence", according to David Frost, director general of the British Chambers of Commerce (BCC).
"The run-up to Christmas is a vital trading period for firms and if this strike goes ahead orders will be lost and the fragile recovery will be undermined," he said.
"It is about time those involved in the industry showed some much-needed leadership and brought an end to this disruption."
On Monday, John Lewis announced it was working with other carriers in order to avoid disruption to its online deliveries from a Royal Mail strike.

Modernisation
Royal Mail made an operating profit of £321m in the year to 31 March, but it was the first time in 20 years that all four parts of the business had been profitable.
The company said the number of letters and parcels its core business delivers was falling by 10% each year, losing it £170m per annum.
One major reason for this is increased competition from electronic forms of communication such as e-mail.
Both the Royal Mail and the CWU agree that job cuts are needed as part of streamlining the mail service to cope with the drop-off in postal volume.
But the CWU said Royal Mail managers were refusing to meet its demand for a signed agreement determining the scope of cuts, as well as job and pay security guarantees for those workers who will ultimately remain in their jobs.
The Royal Mail said that by signing up to an agreement after the last national postal strike in 2007, the CWU accepted the future job cuts it needed to make in order to modernise the service.

Seems there will not be an all out National strike and the CWU trying to negotiate a 'peace deal'. A shame really.

Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8304537.stm

[El Rojo]

if the strike is called off, it will be a great shame. seems that union bosses are hamstringing militant action, whilst the gov / management ect are throwing a paddy that the workers are maybe not allowing them to impose a inlimited reforms. I particularly like mandlesons "lunatic proposition bit" and the implied "were all in it together" vibe comming from the wankers that cause this mess in the first place.

why do people buy this shit?

[rednordman]

I agree with all of you, but I do worry about the intense public backlash that this will cause. I could in effect be a huge own-goal for this reason alone. The worst thing is that the media is showing a blind eye to the actual reasons for this strike, to the point where they are almost hostile to the workers, calling their demands, outdated and prehistoric (what ever this is meant to mean?- is the notion of job security itself, now 'pre-historic' too?).

This is why I am starting learn how important it is to create class conciousness. In a country where class is not supposed to exist, people only think about their own interests. In the hear and now, this WILL only be a hinderance to peoples lives and like it or not people WILL resent the national royal mail as a result.

The question I must ask then is that of how can the unionists and RM employees get their message and reasons across to the public when the media itself is blockading them and restriting their speech? Also how do you turn a hostile selfish public to understand the reasons for this strike.

After all, the Royal mail isnt full of communists, there are people of all kinds of opinions who work for it, YET, the number of people who voted to strike is actually quite staggering. Something is obviously very wrong with the royal mail, and I dont think its just down to the workers or the fact that is sort of state run (as is being portrayed by the capitalist media).

[cyu]

I do worry about the intense public backlash that this will cause. I could in effect be a huge own-goal for this reason alone.


Industrial action does not necessarily have to mean work stoppage. It could be any of the following:

1. Take all the money they get from selling stamps and decide democratically how to split it at the end of the day.

2. Give out stamps for free.

3. Stop delivering junk mail to everyone except hostile politicians and their higher ups. In fact, take the undelivered junk mail and "misdeliver" them instead to hostile politicians and their higher ups.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Dates for strikes confirmed:




The Communication Workers Union (CWU) has said nationwide postal strikes will start on Thursday 22 October.
The union said it had no choice but to announce a strike after the Royal Mail rejected its latest set of proposals.
On day the first day, mail centre staff and drivers will strike. The next day it will be delivery and collection staff.
Royal Mail condemned the strikes as "an appalling and unjustified attack on customers".
"Customers large and small have been hoping the CWU would lift the strike threats and focus on providing the service they need and want," said Royal Mail managing director Mark Higson.
"Instead the union has given them a slap in the face."

'Severely disappointed'
The CWU said talks were continuing and strike action could still be avoided.
"We made a genuine offer to Royal Mail that would have given space for detailed discussions without a strike," said Dave Ward, deputy general secretary of the CWU.
"We were severely disappointed that within two or three hours the company rejected it, apparently without even affording it proper consideration."
The union has to give one week's notice of when strike action will be taken, so Thursday was the soonest the action could take place.
Last week, members of the CWU voted by three-to-one to support strike action as part of a dispute about pay, modernisation and working conditions.

Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8309447.stm

[ls]

Industrial action does not necessarily have to mean work stoppage. It could be any of the following:

1. Take all the money they get from selling stamps and decide democratically how to split it at the end of the day.

2. Give out stamps for free.

3. Stop delivering junk mail to everyone except hostile politicians and their higher ups. In fact, take the undelivered junk mail and "misdeliver" them instead to hostile politicians and their higher ups.

:cool:

By the north london sorting office, do they mean mount pleasant?

That's attracted rather a lot of publicity thanks to the militancy of workers there, the complete tired old piece of shit of a local MP turned up and wasn't even given a look-in. :lol:

Islington may be gentrified, but its working-class are by no means part of that. :cool:

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Letter from a postman outlining the managers manipulation and lies to justify cuts:



A letter from a postman

A Royal Mail worker describes the background to the 2009 national strike vote, including details of how managers have been manipulating the figures to justify cuts.

Old people still write letters the old-fashioned way: by hand, with a biro, folding up the letter into an envelope, writing the address on the front before adding the stamp. Mostly they don’t have email, and while they often have a mobile phone – bought by the family ‘just in case’ – they usually have no idea how to send a text. So Peter Mandelson wasn’t referring to them when he went on TV in May to press for the part-privatisation of the Royal Mail, saying that figures were down due to competition from emails and texts.

I spluttered into my tea when I heard him say that. ‘Figures are down.’ We hear that sentence almost every day at work when management are trying to implement some new initiative which involves postal workers like me working longer hours for no extra pay, carrying more weight, having more duties.

It’s the joke at the delivery office. ‘Figures are down,’ we say, and laugh as we pile the fifth or sixth bag of mail onto the scales and write down the weight in the log-book. It’s our daily exercise in fiction-writing. We’re only supposed to carry a maximum of 16 kilos per bag, on a reducing scale: 16 kilos the first bag, 13 kilos the last. If we did that we’d be taking out ten bags a day and wouldn’t be finished till three in the afternoon.
‘Figures are down,’ we chortle mirthlessly, as we load the third batch of door-to-door catalogues onto our frames, adding yet more weight to our bags, and more minutes of unpaid overtime to our clock. We get paid 1.67 pence per item of unaddressed mail, an amount that hasn’t changed in ten years. It is paid separately from our wages, and we can’t claim overtime if we run past our normal hours because of these items. We also can’t refuse to deliver them. This junk mail is one of the Royal Mail’s most profitable sidelines and my personal contribution to global warming: straight through the letterbox and into the bin.

‘Figures are down,’ we say again, but more wearily now, as we pile yet more packages into our panniers, before setting off on our rounds.
People don’t send so many letters any more, it’s true. But, then again, the average person never did send all that many letters. They sent Christmas cards and birthday cards and postcards. They still do. And bills and bank statements and official letters from the council or the Inland Revenue still arrive by post; plus there’s all the new traffic generated by the internet: books and CDs from Amazon, packages from eBay, DVDs and games from LoveFilm, clothes and gifts and other items purchased at any one of the countless online stores which clutter the internet, bought at any time of the day or night, on a whim, with a credit card.

According to Royal Mail figures published in May, mail volume declined by 5.5 per cent over the preceding 12 months, and is predicted to fall by a further 10 per cent this year ‘due to the recession and the continuing growth of electronic communications such as email’. Every postman knows these figures are false. If the figures are down, how come I can’t get my round done in under four hours any more? How come I can work up to five hours at a stretch without time for a sit-down or a tea break? How come my knees nearly give way with the weight I have to carry? How come something snapped in my back as I was climbing out of the shower, so that I fell to the floor and had to take a week off work?

So who’s right? Are the figures down or aren’t they? The Royal Mail couldn’t lie, could it? Well no, maybe not. But it can manipulate the figures. And it can avoid telling the whole truth.

One thing you probably don’t know, for instance, is that the Royal Mail is already part-privatised. It goes under the euphemism of ‘deregulation’. Deregulation is the result of an EU directive that was meant to be implemented over an extended period to give mail companies time to adjust, but which this government embraced with almost obscene relish, deregulating the UK mail service long before any of its rivals in Europe. It means that any private mail company – or, indeed, any of the state-owned, subsidised European mail companies – is able to bid for Royal Mail contracts.

Take a look at your letters next time you pick them up from the doormat. Look at the right-hand corner, the place where the Queen’s head used to be. You’ll see a variety of different franks, representing a number of different mail companies. There’s TNT, UK Mail, Citypost and a number of others. What these companies do is to bid for the profitable bulk mail and city-to-city trade of large corporations, undercutting the Royal Mail, and then have the Royal Mail deliver it for them. TNT has the very lucrative BT contract, for instance. TNT picks up all BT’s mail from its main offices, sorts it into individual walks according to information supplied by the Royal Mail, scoots it to the mail centres in bulk, where it is then sorted again and handed over to us to deliver. Royal Mail does the work. TNT takes the profit.

None of these companies has a universal delivery obligation, unlike the Royal Mail. In fact they have no delivery obligation at all. They aren’t rival mail companies in a free market, as the propaganda would have you believe. None of them delivers any mail. All they do is ride on the back of the system created and developed by the Royal Mail, and extract profit from it. The process is called ‘downstream access’. Downstream access means that private mail companies have access to any point in the Royal Mail delivery network which will yield a profit, after which they will leave the poor old postman to carry the mail to your door.

So if ‘figures are down’ that doesn’t mean that volume is down. Volume, at least over that last few miles from the office to your door, is decidedly up. But even assuming that Mandelson was telling the truth, that volume really is down by 10 per cent, the fact is that staff levels are down even more, by 30 per cent. That still means each postman is doing a whole lot more work.

There are more part-time staff now. No one is taken on on a full-time basis any more. There are two grades of part-time workers: those working six-hour shifts and those working four hours. The six-hour staff prepare their own frame – their workstation, divided into roads and then numbers, with a slot for each address – but they don’t do any ‘internal sorting’ (this is the initial sorting done when the mail comes into the office). The four-hour part-timers come in and – in theory at least – pick up their pre-packed bags and go straight out. They are hardly in the office at all. This means that the full-timers have to pick up the slack. They are supposed to prepare the frames, sort out the redirections, bundle up the mail and put it into the sacks for the part-timers to take out, as well as doing all the internal sorting, and preparing their own frames: all in the three hours or so before they go out on their rounds.

When I first started working at the Royal Mail every postman prepared his own round. These days maybe a third of the staff are part-time. It’s the full-timers who are on the old-fashioned, water-tight contracts, with full pension entitlement, the ones whose pension fund is such a nightmare for the Royal Mail’s finances. As well as being invariably part-time, new staff are on flexible contracts without pension rights.

The pension fund deficit was £5.9 billion last year and is predicted to rise to £8 or £9 billion next year. The deficit is the main reason various people in positions of authority within the government and the Royal Mail were suggesting the partial sell-off earlier in the year. These people included Adam Crozier, the chief executive, and Jane Newell, the chair of the pension fund trustees, as well as the business secretary, Peter Mandelson. But a partial sale of the Royal Mail wouldn’t get rid of the pension deficit. No private investor would take it on. Which means that, whether the Royal Mail remains in public hands or is partly or fully privatised in the future, the pension deficit will always remain the tax-payer’s obligation.

Meanwhile there is increasing tension in Royal Mail offices up and down the country. There was a strike in 2007, and a national agreement on ‘pay and modernisation’, but this year has seen management constantly implementing new practices, putting more and more pressure on the steadily dwindling ranks of full-timers. The latest innovation being forced on an unwilling workforce is the collapsing of frames.

Let me explain what this means. Each frame represents a round or a walk. Letters are sorted on the frame, and then bundled up to take out onto the walk. But mail delivery is a seasonal business. Traffic varies throughout the year. Around Christmas it is at its highest. In the summer months, when the kids are out of school, the volume drops. This is known as ‘the summer lull’. So a national agreement was reached between the union and the management to reduce the number of man-hours in each office during the summer months. And the way this was done was to collapse one of the frames. One frame in the office would no longer have a specific postman assigned to it, but would be taken out by all the postmen in the office on a rotating basis. This meant an average of ten or 15 minutes extra work every day for every postman in the office. This agreement was meant to apply to only one frame and for the summer period only.
Now this has changed. There is increasing pressure to collapse more and more frames – that is, to get the same number of postmen to do larger amounts of work – and not just in the summer months but over the whole year. Management are becoming noticeably more belligerent. For some weeks now the managers have been bullying and cajoling everyone in our office, saying that a second frame would have to be collapsed – ‘figures are down’ – and that the workforce would have to decide which frame that would be. Everyone refused. Collapsing a frame would mean that one person would have to move frames, while another person on a ‘flexible’ contract would lose his job altogether. No one wanted to be responsible for making that kind of decision. No one wanted to shaft their workmates. And then last week it was announced, on the heaviest day of the week, and without notice, that a second frame was going to be collapsed anyway, regardless of our opinion. When the shop steward put in a written objection it was ignored.

Such was the resentment and the chaos in the office that a lot of mail didn’t get delivered that day, and what was delivered was late. If a postman fails to deliver a letter, it is called ‘deliberate withholding of mail’ and is a sackable offence. When management are responsible, it is considered merely expedient. There’s a feeling that we are being provoked, and that this isn’t coming from the managers in our office – who aren’t all that bright, and who don’t have all that much power – but from somewhere higher up. Everyone is gearing up for a strike.
The truth is that the figures aren’t down at all. We have proof of this. The Royal Mail have been fiddling the figures. This is how it is being done.
Mail is delivered to the offices in grey boxes. These are a standard size, big enough to carry a few hundred letters. The mail is sorted from these boxes, put into pigeon-holes representing the separate walks, and from there carried over to the frames. This is what is called ‘internal sorting’ and it is the job of the full-timers, who come into work early to do it. In the past, the volume of mail was estimated by weighing the boxes. These days it is done by averages. There is an estimate for the number of letters that each box contains, decided on by national agreement between the management and the union. That number is 208. This is how the volume of mail passing through each office is worked out: 208 letters per box times the number of boxes. However, within the last year Royal Mail has arbitrarily, and without consultation, reduced the estimate for the number of letters in each box. It was 208: now they say it is 150. This arbitrary reduction more than accounts for the 10 per cent reduction that the Royal Mail claims is happening nationwide.

Doubting the accuracy of these numbers, the union ordered a random manual count to be undertaken over a two-week period in a number of offices across the region. Our office was one of them. On average, those boxes which the Royal Mail claims contain only 150 letters, actually carry 267 items of mail. This, then, explains how the Royal Mail can say that the figures are down, although every postman knows that volume is up. The figures are down all right, but only because they have been manipulated.
Like many businesses, the Royal Mail has a pet name for its customers. The name is ‘Granny Smith’. It’s a deeply affectionate term. Granny Smith is everyone, but particularly every old lady who lives alone and for whom the mail service is a lifeline. When an old lady gives me a Christmas card with a fiver slipped in with it and writes, ‘Thank you for thinking of me every day,’ she means it. I might be the only person in the world who thinks about her every day, even if it’s only for long enough to read her name on an envelope and then put it through her letterbox. There is a tension between the Royal Mail as a profit-making business and the Royal Mail as a public service. For most of the Royal Mail management – who rarely, if ever, come across the public – it is the first. To the delivery officer – to me, and people like me, the postmen who bring the mail to your door – it is more than likely the second.

We had a meeting a while back at which all the proposed changes to the business were laid out. Changes in our hours and working practices. Changes to our priorities. Changes that have led to the current chaos. We were told that the emphasis these days should be on the corporate customer. It was what the corporations wanted that mattered. We were effectively being told that quality of service to the average customer was less important than satisfying the requirements of the big businesses.
Someone piped up in the middle of it. ‘What about Granny Smith?’ he said. He’s an old-fashioned sort of postman, the kind who cares about these things.

‘Granny Smith is not important,’ was the reply. ‘Granny Smith doesn’t matter any more.’
So now you know.

Roy Mayall, a pseudonym (obviously), has worked as a postman for the last five years. This article originally appeared as a letter in the London Review of Books, 8 October 2009.

[Devrim]

:cool:

By the north london sorting office, do they mean mount pleasant?

That's attracted rather a lot of publicity thanks to the militancy of workers there, the complete tired old piece of shit of a local MP turned up and wasn't even given a look-in. :lol:

Islington may be gentrified, but its working-class are by no means part of that. :cool:

Mount Pleasant is EC1. Islington is N1.


Industrial action does not necessarily have to mean work stoppage. It could be any of the following:

1. Take all the money they get from selling stamps and decide democratically how to split it at the end of the day.

2. Give out stamps for free.

Postmen don't sell stamps.

Devrim

[ls]

Mount Pleasant is EC1. Islington is N1.

Devrim, you of all people should know better than to trust the postcode system. ;) It's in Clerkenwell, we consider that as definitely being Islington. Not that it matters particularly, the barbican estates come under city of london jurisdiction as do a bunch of other distinctively working-class things.

And while we're at it, N1 is not just Islington, it also crosses over into Hackney.

Oh yeah and posties may as well sell stamps (it would certainly be convenient at little hassle for the posties, possibly offering some extra money to them on the side, fuck the shops which charge a fortune for all these custom ones).

[Dean]

Industrial action does not necessarily have to mean work stoppage. It could be any of the following:

1. Take all the money they get from selling stamps and decide democratically how to split it at the end of the day.

2. Give out stamps for free.

3. Stop delivering junk mail to everyone except hostile politicians and their higher ups. In fact, take the undelivered junk mail and "misdeliver" them instead to hostile politicians and their higher ups.

I support these measures.

[Devrim]

Devrim, you of all people should know better than to trust the postcode system. ;) It's in Clerkenwell, we consider that as definitely being Islington. Not that it matters particularly, the barbican estates come under city of london jurisdiction as do a bunch of other distinctively working-class things.

And while we're at it, N1 is not just Islington, it also crosses over into Hackney.

Yes, I tend to go by the postcodes being an ex-postman. I always think of Mount Pleasant as being central. I wouldn't describe it as a North London office.


Oh yeah and posties may as well sell stamps (it would certainly be convenient at little hassle for the posties, possibly offering some extra money to them on the side, fuck the shops which charge a fortune for all these custom ones).

What are you saying? It sounds like giving people more work to me. Of course postmen shouldn't be required to sell stamps as well.

Devrim

[ls]

Yes, I tend to go by the postcodes being an ex-postman. I always think of Mount Pleasant as being central. I wouldn't describe it as a North London office.

I used to kind of see it your way too, when you look at it though, city of london has so many links to islington and camden too that people kind of.. congregate between it and islington if that makes sense? A lot of the services for camden and islington folks are integrated and stuff around there.

For every racist wanker city businessman (they walk around like a bad shadow around there in packs as I'm sure you know), there is a group of 14 camden/islington youths hanging round there too, can't say I blame them really it's fucking boring around trendy islington, at least it kind of looks more interesting around COL.


What are you saying? It sounds like giving people more work to me. Of course postmen shouldn't be required to sell stamps as well.

Devrim

Hm, stamps aren't expensive to manufacture I think. I'm pretty sure workers could be given them and optionally sell them if they wanted to make a bit more cash, but no they shouldn't be required to sell a minimum quota of them if that's what you thought I meant, no of course not.

Let's be honest, postal workers (not just posties themselves) get a pretty bum deal altogether, it didn't used to be uncommon to see letters torn, never turn up at all or come along plainly opened with stuff such as cash stolen (yeah I know you shouldn't send cash by post blabla), they even started the draconian measure of employing security guards to watch over sorters at the offices along with CCTV (I know this because a friend worked there during their xmas temp rec drive in 06). Of course, I don't really attack people for taking people's mail if they are in striking poverty, but I think most measures to help postal workers are of course good measures.

Naturally, with the royal mail willing to pay people to be big brother over its own staff, rather than at least help the problem a bit by offering pay rises, you can expect all proposals in this thread to never materialise.

Oh and another thing, the rolling strikes that CWU want are nowhere near as effective as a national strike, something we can expect thanks to the lower levels of militancy than we used to see, Thatcher and Blair's crippling the unions has worked pretty well. :/

EDIT: This is completely fantastic http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8309736.stm

[ls]

This is becoming a real slugfest between the workers and the management, there can be no doubt about it anymore.

It is going to be a national strike after all. :cool: It's about time, on top of that a bunch of different royal mail workers will be striking, this expose about royal mail's dirty tactics in palce just piles on the pressure that workers can throw at royal mail.

[Devrim]

I used to kind of see it your way too, when you look at it though, city of london has so many links to islington and camden too that people kind of.. congregate between it and islington if that makes sense? A lot of the services for camden and islington folks are integrated and stuff around there.

For every racist wanker city businessman (they walk around like a bad shadow around there in packs as I'm sure you know), there is a group of 14 camden/islington youths hanging round there too, can't say I blame them really it's fucking boring around trendy islington, at least it kind of looks more interesting around COL.

I wasn't making any comment about the area. I was just saying that Mount Pleasant wouldn't be refereed to in the Post Office as a North London office.


Hm, stamps aren't expensive to manufacture I think. I'm pretty sure workers could be given them and optionally sell them if they wanted to make a bit more cash, but no they shouldn't be required to sell a minimum quota of them if that's what you thought I meant, no of course not.

I don't think that RM would give them stamps and let them keep the money themselves. It would be just another duty put on top of the work they already have.


they even started the draconian measure of employing security guards to watch over sorters at the offices along with CCTV (I know this because a friend worked there during their xmas temp rec drive in 06).

There have always been viewing sites above sorting floors. Generally they are black glass windows. Obviously I don't know what is behind them, but they have been there for decades.

Devrim

[ls]

Tis the season to be scabbing? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8312845.stm

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Fuck me. Royal Mail Pricks, denouncing the strike as "unjustified and irresponsible". No one more irresponsible than the bosses at Royal Mail.

[ls]

Fuck me. Royal Mail Pricks, denouncing the strike as "unjustified and irresponsible". No one more irresponsible than the bosses at Royal Mail.

They've done that from the start, it's not just royal mail either is it, it's mandy and labour and so on and so forth.

What's disgusting is openly saying we're gonna send in scabs and there's nothing you can do about it, I'm hoping that there will be enough militancy to stop them entering the sorting offices.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

They've done that from the start, it's not just royal mail either is it, it's mandy and labour and so on and so forth.

What's disgusting is openly saying we're gonna send in scabs and there's nothing you can do about it, I'm hoping that there will be enough militancy to stop them entering the sorting offices.

Yes definitely they need to be opposed somehow. You are right it truly is horrible that the Royal Mail will just completely ignore these workers.

[Devrim]

Yes definitely they need to be opposed somehow. You are right it truly is horrible that the Royal Mail will just completely ignore these workers.

Bosses ignoring workers is hardly something new. It has certainly been going on in the Post Office for a long time.


What's disgusting is openly saying we're gonna send in scabs and there's nothing you can do about it, I'm hoping that there will be enough militancy to stop them entering the sorting offices.

As I read it they were claiming that these people are not being recruited as scabs, but that they are recruiting 15,000 extra Christmas casuals to help with the expected backlogs from the strikes.

Of course, they could be used as scabs, but in my opinion, putting an extra 15,000 untrained* people in there will not run a service that is normally run by over 100,000 experienced workers.

In my opinion, they are much more likely to be used on deliveries to clear the backlog that the strikes will cause. Of course the union strategy of one day strikes will allow this to happen.

Devrim

*Being a postman is not skilled work. However, to do the sorting and prep at any sort of reasonable speed you must be used to it. In general casuals are used mostly for deliveries and not for sorting and prep.

[ls]

As I read it they were claiming that these people are not being recruited as scabs, but that they are recruiting 15,000 extra Christmas casuals to help with the expected backlogs from the strikes.

I think the BBC article sets the tone pretty well, "denied they are strikebreakers", they are going to minimise the impact that is going to be felt by companies and the UK economy.

Important deliveries are being delayed for me thanks to this, but I really don't care if it's thanks to workers striking, they have my full support. I don' want to see any action at all that undermines their work, not from CWU, inconvenienced moany idiots nor from the royal mail.


Of course, they could be used as scabs, but in my opinion, putting an extra 15,000 untrained* people in there will not run a service that is normally run by over 100,000 experienced workers.

It's still an attack on the valiant work achieved by the strikes.


In my opinion, they are much more likely to be used on deliveries to clear the backlog that the strikes will cause. Of course the union strategy of one day strikes will allow this to happen.

What can we say, it's a good result comparative to what could've happened, of course we might just see more action before xmas.


Devrim

*Being a postman is not skilled work. However, to do the sorting and prep at any sort of reasonable speed you must be used to it. In general casuals are used mostly for deliveries and not for sorting and prep.

Even the postman I've known for over 5 years sometimes finds it hard to deliver mail to the exact places, imo it is not particularly easy to identify complicated places in estates and all the rest of it, of course I've never been a postman but it certainly does not look something you'd master instantly. Additionally, xmas recruitment drives definitely recruit a lot of people straight to the sorting office, I was told that last year by the jobcentre (and the man pointed to actual job opportunities available as a sorter).

[bricolage]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/10/19/1255906935129/19.10.09-Martin-Rowson-on-005.jpg

[Devrim]

I think the BBC article sets the tone pretty well, "denied they are strikebreakers", they are going to minimise the impact that is going to be felt by companies and the UK economy.

It's still an attack on the valiant work achieved by the strikes.

Absolutely, these casuals are being brought in to undermine industrial action. My point is that they could not run the service in case of an all out national strike. I think that this is an important fact to recognise.


What can we say, it's a good result comparative to what could've happened, of course we might just see more action before xmas.

Of course I too would like to see more action before Christmas. However, one day strikes are not always better than nothing. They can end up demoralising workers and wearing them out.


Even the postman I've known for over 5 years sometimes finds it hard to deliver mail to the exact places, imo it is not particularly easy to identify complicated places in estates and all the rest of it, of course I've never been a postman but it certainly does not look something you'd master instantly. Additionally, xmas recruitment drives definitely recruit a lot of people straight to the sorting office, I was told that last year by the jobcentre (and the man pointed to actual job opportunities available as a sorter).

I worked as a postman in London for five years in the 80s. It isn't something that you can master in a day. It takes a bit of getting used to. On the point of casuals sorting, I was speaking from my own experience there. Maybe in a district office casuals could do the sorting without being that slow. In a delivery office it couldn't happen, for example in my old office, SW16, the main street was divided between 6 different walks depending on the street number. You just can't learn the walk sorting that easily.

Devrim

[bricolage]

In a delivery office it couldn't happen, for example in my old office, SW16

Is that the Prentis Road office?

Sorry, I have that standard Londoner obsession with anywhere remotely near where I am from.

[Devrim]

Is that the Prentis Road office?

Sorry, I have that standard Londoner obsession with anywhere remotely near where I am from.

Yes, it was just behind Pratts and the White Lion pub when I worked there though I believe Pratts has now closed.

Devrim

[bricolage]

Yes, it was just behind Pratts and the White Lion pub when I worked there though I believe Pratts has now closed.

Devrim

Yeah Pratts went a while ago, the opinion of the local chattering classes tends to be everything went downhill after that.

[ls]

Absolutely, these casuals are being brought in to undermine industrial action. My point is that they could not run the service in case of an all out national strike. I think that this is an important fact to recognise.

Indeed, which was related to my earlier point of posties being unable to do the job so well from day one. ;)


Of course I too would like to see more action before Christmas. However, one day strikes are not always better than nothing. They can end up demoralising workers and wearing them out.

I suppose it's a strong point, in this case the bullying by bosses has pulled it out this far, but yeah the CWU leadership are playing with fire by putting limits and caps on the strikes, it can only go on so long. They are saying that the postal workers may all be out of jobs very, very soon if this continues, seeing as royal mail is not nationalised, there is no obligation by anyone to use it.

As a side note, we should remember that the other post companies (ukmail and so on) are being overloaded with volume thanks to this, ideally we will see a longer strike and a complete collapse of the main private mail companies in the UK, if several of the big ones cannot accept current volume, we will see something very strong happen to the system indeed. Also, we should be seeing solidarity strikes with workers for the other mail companies, although that too is quite unlikely.

[Tifosi]

With all the people out of work in these time I'm surprised they have the neck to strike. At least they have a job!

[ls]

With all the people out of work in these time I'm surprised they have the neck to strike. At least they have a job!

Love the name by the way. ;):cool:

Why do you feel it's so bad they are striking? They may well have a job, but then they may have a family to feed too, with the attacks on pay (read about the new shift management schedules they are forced to take) and the going back on written deals struck, do you think they shouldn't fight for their rights?

Lots of new ones may get jobs too thanks to this, but again if they strike thanks to bad pay conditions and the like, we should support them too.

[cyu]

With all the people out of work in these time I'm surprised they have the neck to strike. At least they have a job!

That's why anarcho-syndicalists instead encourage people to assume democratic control of their companies and the means of production.

Excerpt from http://www.revleft.com/vb/sony-france-employees-t103921/index.html

Capitalists would love it if the only tactics that union members can think of are tactics that will turn off the local community. Work-stoppage strikes are one example - if the union stops work, then the local community is hurt because they are no longer getting the services they depend on. Capitalists can then use this discomfort in the local community as a weapon against the strikers. To prevent this, I would instead encourage "working strikes" - strikes in which union members disobey the executives, but continue to serve the local community.

[Devrim]

Capitalists would love it if the only tactics that union members can think of are tactics that will turn off the local community. Work-stoppage strikes are one example - if the union stops work, then the local community is hurt because they are no longer getting the services they depend on. Capitalists can then use this discomfort in the local community as a weapon against the strikers. To prevent this, I would instead encourage "working strikes" - strikes in which union members disobey the executives, but continue to serve the local community.

What would you suggest that postmen do in the form of a 'working strike'? To me it seems like an absurd idea.

Of course the media will go on about how workers are 'hurting the local community', and try and turn 'public opinion', which is something that is mostly created by the media against strikers.

'Public opinion' is not what wins strikes. What wins strikes is solidarity between workers, and the economic power of workers. There are case where 'withdrawing services from the local community' is actually a part of winning the strike. When for example public transport workers go on strike, the fact that it can prevent many other workers from going to work is part of the economic muscle they are flexing.


That's why anarcho-syndicalists instead encourage people to assume democratic control of their companies and the means of production.

Does this mean anything in this specific context at all?

Devrim

[cyu]

What would you suggest that postmen do in the form of a 'working strike'? To me it seems like an absurd idea.


One example from earlier in this thread: Stop delivering junk mail to everyone except hostile politicians and their higher ups. In fact, take the undelivered junk mail and "misdeliver" them instead to hostile politicians and their higher ups.


Of course the media will go on about how workers are 'hurting the local community', and try and turn 'public opinion', which is something that is mostly created by the media against strikers. 'Public opinion' is not what wins strikes.

Public opinion is what makes politicians afraid to move against strikers. From http://www.revleft.com/vb/weapons-mass-deception-t120176/index.html

1. Take some event in which you feel the local media is only reporting the views of the ruling class (maybe when a strike happens, maybe when there's a protest, maybe there's some event the media totally omits). Organize a largish group of activists to simply walk into your local news room, bring a list of the points you want to make, then stand in front of the camera while they are trying to film and make your points - keep doing it until the points you are making are getting fair play in the local media.

2. Repeat step 1 until it's fairly common. Then move on to a schedule in which activists are regularly assuming democratic control of your local media outlet for maybe 1 day a week, 1 week a month, etc.

3. As step 2 becomes fairly common, move on to advocate full employee democracy and community democracy for the policies and governance of your local media.

[Devrim]

One example from earlier in this thread: Stop delivering junk mail to everyone except hostile politicians and their higher ups. In fact, take the undelivered junk mail and "misdeliver" them instead to hostile politicians and their higher ups.

How many politicians do you think there are in the UK compared to the number of postmen. When I was a postman in London, I certainly didn't have any on my walk.

Seriously though, what do you think would happen if postmen refused to deliver rebate and mailsort? They would get suspended by the management, their workmates would walk out, and there would be a strike.


Public opinion is what makes politicians afraid to move against strikers. From http://www.revleft.com/vb/weapons-mass-deception-t120176/index.html

No, it is not. 'Public opinion' is something that is manufactured by the media. What scares politicians is the threat of other workers reacting in solidarity. They are completely different things.

Devrim

[ls]

Not that you would want any on your walk, I mean who would want some political reject like Galloway or the MP for Islington south who went to 'forcefully enquire' about what 'her workers' were doing at mount pleasant.

We should thoroughly reject MPs attempts at "understanding the workers".

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Not that you would want any on your walk, I mean who would want some political reject like Galloway or the MP for Islington south who went to 'forcefully enquire' about what 'her workers' were doing at mount pleasant.

We should thoroughly reject MPs attempts at "understanding the workers".

Exactly. I was reading the Morning Star on Monday, an article on the Leeds Refuse Workers Strike, and throughout the whole article they kept praising the local Labour Council member. Because he was supposedly responsible for the strike, they quoted him saying he 'understood the workers struggle'.

[cyu]

How many politicians do you think there are in the UK compared to the number of postmen


I'm not talking about individual actions here. I'm saying instead of everyone going on strike, everyone puts all the junk mail in a big pile. Then they help the ones that do have hostile politicians or management on their routes "misdeliver" the junk mail to them.



They would get suspended by the management, their workmates would walk out, and there would be a strike.


And how can you really suspend anybody if the postal workers are already engaging in civil disobedience? The manager says to one, "Don't bother coming to work tomorrow." The employee shows up anyway and the rest of the employees help him load up with mail. The only thing the manager can do next to lock out all employees - and he would only be able to do that if none of the employees have keys of their own. Even if it does becomes a lock out situation, then the public will blame management, not the employees.



'Public opinion' is something that is manufactured by the media.


Indeed it is. That's why I was talking about assuming democratic control of the media.

[Bitter Ashes]

I was up at 4am this morning to go attend the pickets. Got there while it was still cold and dark with my placard... and realised that they're not picketting in my town until Friday XD
Dont I feel silly? Lol

[Devrim]

And how can you really suspend anybody if the postal workers are already engaging in civil disobedience? The manager says to one, "Don't bother coming to work tomorrow." The employee shows up anyway and the rest of the employees help him load up with mail. The only thing the manager can do next to lock out all employees - and he would only be able to do that if none of the employees have keys of their own. Even if it does becomes a lock out situation, then the public will blame management, not the employees.

According to the latest polls, the 'public' does blame the government anyway, but public opinion is not the key to winning disputes anyway.


I'm not talking about individual actions here. I'm saying instead of everyone going on strike, everyone puts all the junk mail in a big pile. Then they help the ones that do have hostile politicians or management on their routes "misdeliver" the junk mail to them.

This is completely unconnected to reality.

Devrim

[ls]

Made it to mount pleasant around 9:30, apparently there were 200 people there on the off (BBC news lied and said there were just 20), just got back a while ago now, some people from my group(s) should be there later on too. I was informed of this website before I forget - http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/home.php.

As I post this, Bob Crow should be giving some kind of speech. Anyway yeah, there are a lot of things I observed about the strike, one was some black cab drivers (traditionally all torys) shouting out in solidarity with the strike as well as loads of other people declaring their support for it.

There are a number of very fucked up things going on that I observed, these can be outlined very simply:

1) Management were out and about on the streets and in RM vans, donning the usual worker's jackets and pretending to deliver mail purely to undermine the strike!

2) Mass meetings are prohibited by the RM management; if they are held without prior knowledge by RM/CWU then it's considered industrial action straight from the off*, a completely disgusting unreasonable demand, most lunch breaks are extremely short though and sometimes they are forced to work through them! Also, toilet breaks are extremely short, they can easily get shit from management for taking one.

3) Solidarity has been badly undermined by the fact that people travel from widely differing distances to there, some people from as far as Surrey are travelling up to north london. :S Of course, the strike action not being all the different workers on both days is shitty, some of them have not even come along. This along with the mass meetings and the factors preventing easy organisation during lunch breaks, with workers being forced to do overtime and stuff as well (many do it til 7pm) makes workers very tired, thus a meeting is not really practical.. yeah, the whole thing is a bit intensive.


*Although, they have held wildcat strikes and the like before, also scab employees DO NOT immediately get the boot if they go on solidarity strike, this is a proven fact.


And how can you really suspend anybody if the postal workers are already engaging in civil disobedience?

:confused: Sorry to put this bluntly, but it's rather obvious one would think?

One worker had indeed been sacked, there is an ongoing tribunal.


The manager says to one, "Don't bother coming to work tomorrow."

Management once wished all of mount pleasant be relocated to an area near heathrow airport? Guess what stopped that from happening? A wildcat unofficial strike of ALL workers, work stoppage is sometimes completely essential.


The employee shows up anyway and the rest of the employees help him load up with mail. The only thing the manager can do next to lock out all employees - and he would only be able to do that if none of the employees have keys of their own. Even if it does becomes a lock out situation, then the public will blame management, not the employees.

Do you really think the media will portray it as a brave workers' struggle?


Indeed it is. That's why I was talking about assuming democratic control of the media.

Funny you should say that, many of the workers and the trendy lefty newsreporters were talking about 'occupying the BBC' (protest against the BNP on question time), yeah, that's gonna work.. :S

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Headline of the Daily Mail today:
"The Lemming strike goes ahead"

Bastards

[ls]

Oh yeah and another strike is planned btw.

It seems like the gutter press already knew, good stuff, let's try and go to all the mass meetings and postal workers support groups and argue for better positions, that way we can really get in there- the workers are very, very receptive and appreciate every bit of support.

[JohannGE]

Currently being a member of the reserve army of labour or, as they like to call it, a "jobseeker", I wonder what my options are with regard to the recruitment of scabs that the PO are currently engaged in.

If they sent me to apply for one of these jobs I would of course refuse. In theory, they could then suspend my benefits.

Many jobs these days I would not be prepared to do at any price, ie, McJobs, chasing debts etc but I would go to jail before getting a job as a strike breaker.

Is there any concept of conscientious objection in employment?

[ls]

Currently being a member of the reserve army of labour or, as they like to call it, a "jobseeker", I wonder what my options are with regard to the recruitment of scabs that the PO are currently engaged in.

If they sent me to apply for one of these jobs I would of course refuse. In theory, they could then suspend my benefits.

Many jobs these days I would not be prepared to do at any price, ie, McJobs, chasing debts etc but I would go to jail before getting a job as a strike breaker.

Is there any concept of conscientious objection in employment?

Just botch the interview up.

[cyu]

According to the latest polls, the 'public' does blame the government anyway


The less they blame the employees, the better.



but public opinion is not the key to winning disputes anyway.


If you want to keep it a purely business decision to let strikers win one battle out of a hundred, then fine. But if you actually want to change the politics of a country to become leftist instead of pro-capitalist, then it's all about public opinion.


This is completely unconnected to reality.


Pro-capitalists say the same thing when confronted with the suggestion of a world without capitalism.

[Bitter Ashes]

but public opinion is not the key to winning disputes anyway.While capitalism still reigns, the key to winning a dispute is change what's profitable.
If it costs the employer more to do the wrong thing and resist giving thier workers decent rights, through industrial action, then they'll fold. Without the threat of industrial action, it'll always be more profitable for employer to be bastards and these people rarely have any moral concious and will do the wrong thing to get more money.
Public support is important for morale reasons though. A strike's more likely to go ahead and continue if morale is high. If you're getting pelted with abuse from the public, then it takes a very strong willed individual to not buckle to public pressure. So, showing your support should not be neglected.

[cyu]

Guess what stopped that from happening? A wildcat unofficial strike of ALL workers, work stoppage is sometimes completely essential.


Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Leaving the ultimate decision making in the hands of the executives means you continue to live as slaves.

Even in the Vestas (http://savevestas.wordpress.com/) example, simply occupying the company was not enough. Police still came in and kicked them out. I think we both agree that large-scale action by employees is what works, but I am saying that taking over is better than abandonment. However, simply taking over without community support will still end up with the police moving against you - that's why community outreach is vital.

This is how it's really done: http://upsidedownworld.org/main/content/view/1875/32/

"The government has tried to evict them five times using police operatives. On April 8, 2003, during the most recent eviction attempt, over 5,000 community members from Neuquén came out to defend the factory."



Do you really think the media will portray it as a brave workers' struggle?



Not if their CEOs and boards of directors are in control. Again, "That's why I was talking about assuming democratic control of the media."



many of the workers and the trendy lefty newsreporters were talking about 'occupying the BBC' (protest against the BNP on question time), yeah, that's gonna work.. :S


One of the first things coup plotters do is silence opposition media, leaving their own media in place. You think they don't know what they are doing? And you want to tell me you're advocating surrendering control of the mass media and control of the ideas in your society to pro-capitalists?

[cyu]

Just botch the interview up.


Or make it clear you are going to try to organize another union - make it obvious that you are a leftist, if not by what you say, then by what you wear.

...or take the job, ignore the work, collect your money, and spend it on pizza and drinks for the strikers =]

[Devrim]

but public opinion is not the key to winning disputes anyway.The less they blame the employees, the better.

If you want to keep it a purely business decision to let strikers win one battle out of a hundred, then fine. But if you actually want to change the politics of a country to become leftist instead of pro-capitalist, then it's all about public opinion.


While capitalism still reigns, the key to winning a dispute is change what's profitable.
If it costs the employer more to do the wrong thing and resist giving thier workers decent rights, through industrial action, then they'll fold. Without the threat of industrial action, it'll always be more profitable for employer to be bastards and these people rarely have any moral concious and will do the wrong thing to get more money.
Public support is important for morale reasons though. A strike's more likely to go ahead and continue if morale is high. If you're getting pelted with abuse from the public, then it takes a very strong willed individual to not buckle to public pressure. So, showing your support should not be neglected.

I think that the whole thing about 'public opinion' is a red herring. The thing that is important in workers' disputes is the support of other workers. This is a completely different thing from 'public opinion', which isn't even the opinion of that amorphous cross class mass, which is the 'public', but the opinions put about on behalf of the public in the media. Workers are told that they have to get 'the public' on their side. A post on Libcom about the postal strike today puts it very clearly:


One official explained that they were acting to [I]minimise the effect of the strike in order to encourage public support!

I think this kind of attitude shows the level of confusion that this argument causes within the working class.



This is completely unconnected to reality.
Pro-capitalists say the same thing when confronted with the suggestion of a world without capitalism.

Yes, they do. That doesn't mean that it is not disconnected from reality by default though. Do you really think that there is any chance whatsoever of the tactic that you were advocating being implemented by the workers at the Post Office? To me, it sounds like when Trotskyist groups used to call for a general strike every five minutes.

Not only do I think that there is no possibility of it being acted upon, I also think that even if it were, it is not the best way to win this struggle.

Devrim

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Initial impressions: Royal Mail Strike

Reports coming in from picket lines suggest a solid response from postal workers, with near 100% turnout in Bromley By Bow and Nine Elms, London, few in at Bristol and similarly tiny numbers crossing lines at Middlesborough.

Photographers have been down at Mount Pleasant and Bromley by Bow sorting offices, where they report good spirits from the strikers despite the early start and very few people crossing the picket lines.

At Mount Pleasant (http://jwarren.co.uk/photos/protest/postal-strike-picket/) freelance Jonathan Warren caught one manager on camera throwing the post into the back of his Audi and union deputy general secretary Dave Ward showed up once it was light to talk to strikers.

Guy Smallman meanwhile was down at Bow (http://pa.photoshelter.com/gallery/CWU-national-strike-22-10-09/G0000b8FDsSm5MGY), where he says there was a 100% solid strike.

On the Urban75 bulletin board, 4thwrite said the response has been positive: "Just got back from the Middlsbrough picket. Only a tiny number had gone in and there was a pretty good response off the vans going past. The office is pretty central but just off the main road so you don't get many people walking past, but those that did were pretty supportive."

At Bristol, it was reported that 7 out of 400 staff had crossed in the early morning, with strikers in fairly good spirits.

The Guardian has suggested that at Birmingham there has been a "steady flow" of mail vans with about 40 on the picket, though it is not explained whether this is mostly made up of managers

Link: http://libcom.org/news/initial-impressions-royal-mail-strike-22102009

[ls]

The Guardian has suggested that at Birmingham there has been a "steady flow" of mail vans with about 40 on the picket, though it is not explained whether this is mostly made up of managers

Yes, there were lots of mail vans, lots of empty mail carts suspiciously left around everywhere, the posties all told me that it's deliberately done by managers to make the strike look like it 'failed'. :rolleyes:

They even had someone driving a royal mail decorated lorry.

[cyu]

they were acting to minimise the effect of the strike in order to encourage public support!
I think this kind of attitude shows the level of confusion that this argument causes within the working class.

The point of all politics is to benefit as many people as possible (in my opinion anyway). That's the whole point of fighting for leftist ideas. You don't get there by doing things that hurt as many people as possible.

I wouldn't say union members should "minimize the effects of their actions" - but they should minimize any negative effects they have on the general population, maximize any positive effects on the general population, and maximize any negative effects on the capitalist control structure.


Do you really think that there is any chance whatsoever of the tactic that you were advocating being implemented by the workers at the Post Office?

That's the same as asking if there is any chance whatsoever of any country's people implementing socialism. Unless you address the actual objections to socialism, then the question is pointless.


I also think that even if it were, it is not the best way to win this struggle.

Why not? And if those are not the best methods, would you say the current methods being used are the best? Would you say no other tactics could possibly work better? What is your reasoning for defending any particular tactic over another?

[Devrim]

The point of all politics is to benefit as many people as possible (in my opinion anyway). That's the whole point of fighting for leftist ideas. You don't get there by doing things that hurt as many people as possible.

I completely disagree. A communist analysis is based upon class, not some vague amorphous mass of 'people'. Of course the ultimate aim of communism is to create a world human community, and to abolish classes, but in the here and now, and as a direct part in the process that develops towards that communists support the struggle of the working class to defend its wages and working, and living conditions from the constant attacks against them from capital.

The most important part here is about the defence of jobs and living conditions, and in that way the postal workers are fighting on behalf of the entire class. The postal workers are probably the most experienced, in terms of class struggle, group of workers in the UK, but they are not the only ones fighting at the moment:


More industrial unrest threatens to sweep the country as other workers prepare to walk out in protest over pay and conditions. Unite yesterday announced that First Group's bus drivers in Essex, Yorkshire and the north-west will stage walkouts over a pay freeze. Firefighters in Yorkshire, binmen in Leeds, and London Underground workers are also embroiled in separate industrial disputes.

A victory for the postmen will encourage the entire class, and a national postal strike offers the potential for workers to link up into a class wide movement against the attacks.

Conversely a defeat, would be a defeat for the entire class, massively demoralise workers and destroy any prospect of a unified struggle.

The postal workers are fighting directly for the interests of the whole class. In my opinion this dramatically outweighs any inconvenience caused to working class people who get their Christmas cards late.



Do you really think that there is any chance whatsoever of the tactic that you were advocating being implemented by the workers at the Post Office?That's the same as asking if there is any chance whatsoever of any country's people implementing socialism. Unless you address the actual objections to socialism, then the question is pointless.

No it isn't at all. We have to start from where we are now, and look for steps forward. Not just mouth abstract slogans. I believe that the first thing that people should be arguing for in the postal strike is regular mass meetings then all workers can discuss the strike, and its strategy. I don't think that this is in anyway abstract. Indeed until recently it was a tradition within the Post Office.


Why not? And if those are not the best methods, would you say the current methods being used are the best? Would you say no other tactics could possibly work better? What is your reasoning for defending any particular tactic over another?

Because, I don't believe these tactics have anything to offer in the prospect of building a class wide movement to capitalist attacks. Nor do I think that the tactics, of limited strikes, being used at the moment are the best tactic. What we would advocate would be an all out strike and attempts to link up with other workers in struggle.

To come back to something from one of your earlier posts:


Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Leaving the ultimate decision making in the hands of the executives means you continue to live as slaves.

Even in the Vestas (http://www.anonym.to/?http://savevestas.wordpress.com/) example, simply occupying the company was not enough. Police still came in and kicked them out. I think we both agree that large-scale action by employees is what works, but I am saying that taking over is better than abandonment. However, simply taking over without community support will still end up with the police moving against you - that's why community outreach is vital.

This is how it's really done: http://upsidedownworld.org/main/content/view/1875/32/ (http://www.anonym.to/?http://upsidedownworld.org/main/content/view/1875/32/)

"The government has tried to evict them five times using police operatives. On April 8, 2003, during the most recent eviction attempt, over 5,000 community members from Neuquén came out to defend the factory."

Factory occupations can be used as a tactic by workers in struggle. Workers can not take over the economy factory by factory though. It is not possible to have factory sized islands of socialism anymore than it is possible to have socialism in one country. The economy will come to dominate, and the factory will be forced to operate like any normal capitalist businness.

Devrim

[ls]

Secondary picketing makes this a toughie, lots of posties have expressed a desire but a legal pickle in picketing private mail companies, there may be some setup with certain groups. I think it needs to be non-posties doing the picketing (and even then you can be done for 'trespass' even though you're not trespassing ffs).

[cyu]

A victory for the postmen will encourage the entire class... Conversely a defeat, would be a defeat for the entire class... The postal workers are fighting directly for the interests of the whole class. In my opinion this dramatically outweighs any inconvenience caused to working class people who get their Christmas cards late.


Obviously we both claim to agree on the goals, but disagree on which path to take to get there. It is merely a strategy discussion - like internal military discussions about the best tactics to use against an enemy, or builders of a building discussing how best to structure the foundation.

Some military tacticians may believe collateral damage is OK and won't hurt the campaign in the long run. Others may believe collateral damage ultimately hurts the overall campaign.


I believe that the first thing that people should be arguing for in the postal strike is regular mass meetings then all workers can discuss the strike, and its strategy.

I agree - isn't strategy discussion also what we're doing in this thread?


I don't believe these tactics have anything to offer in the prospect of building a class wide movement to capitalist attacks.

Why not? Are you opposed to direct action in general?


Nor do I think that the tactics, of limited strikes, being used at the moment are the best tactic. What we would advocate would be an all out strike and attempts to link up with other workers in struggle.

I don't think limited strikes are as good as all out strikes either. However, I am saying that mere work stoppage doesn't go far enough. Workplace takeovers are much more illustrative of the power of the employees and union members.


Workers can not take over the economy factory by factory though.

You think workers can take over the economy strike by strike? The fact is, after the resolution of every strike, capitalists are still in control of the company. After the resolution of workplace takeovers, employees are now in control of the company. I'd say that moves the country much closer to ending capitalism than your defense of timid actions.

[Devrim]

Obviously we both claim to agree on the goals, but disagree on which path to take to get there. It is merely a strategy discussion - like internal military discussions about the best tactics to use against an enemy, or builders of a building discussing how best to structure the foundation.

Some military tacticians may believe collateral damage is OK and won't hurt the campaign in the long run. Others may believe collateral damage ultimately hurts the overall campaign.

I don't think that people not getting their Christmas cards can really be compared to collateral damage. It doesn't kill anybody. As for the damage it causes to businesses, why should we care?


I agree - isn't strategy discussion also what we're doing in this thread?

Yes, it is an important discussion.


Why not? Are you opposed to direct action in general?

No, and I don't think that what you are suggesting in any way qualifies as 'direct action'.


I don't think limited strikes are as good as all out strikes either. However, I am saying that mere work stoppage doesn't go far enough. Workplace takeovers are much more illustrative of the power of the employees and union members.

There are times when workplace occupations are a useful tactic particulary when places are being closed down and people being made redundant, or when it stops the work place function with scabs. There are other times when it can be detrimental to a struggle closing the workers up in the factory when they would be better served being outside and making connections with other workplaces.


You think workers can take over the economy strike by strike? The fact is, after the resolution of every strike, capitalists are still in control of the company. After the resolution of workplace takeovers, employees are now in control of the company. I'd say that moves the country much closer to ending capitalism than your defense of timid actions.

No, I don't think that workers can take over the economy strike by strike. I think that there is a general process leading to the development of consciousness and ultimately the mass strike and confrontation with capital and the state. In addition, I think that workers can only run a company within a capitalist framework in a capitalist manner. There has been an interesting article on this with some discussion on the anarchist site Libcom recently: http://libcom.org/library/co-operatives-all-together I don't think that workers running capitalist companies would bring us any closer to ending capitalism.I also think that there is no way that the capitalist state would just give the Post Office to the workers if they occupied it. They wouldn't end up in control at all.

Nor do I see what is timid about what I advocate.

Devrim

[El Rojo]

all this in depth theorising is all well and good, but what can the average leftie do, practically, to help?

[Devrim]

all this in depth theorising is all well and good, but what can the average leftie do, practically, to help?

I don't think this is particularly deep theory, and I also think there is a problem in the idea that ideas are not important, and we must dicuss what can be done. Action is dictated by ideas.

On what I think people should do though, I think the most important thing is that workers in every sector struggle for their own interests. That is the best way to build a wider class movement against the current round of attacks.

What can be done directly with the postal strike on a practical level is, visit picket lines, discuss with strikers, and other workers, collect money for strikers at your workplace, and invite strikers to speak at there.

Devrim

[El Rojo]

furthermore, is there a site or place of infomation detailing picket locations ect? i live very in the sticks, and the CWU site is a bit useless

[ls]

furthermore, is there a site or place of infomation detailing picket locations ect? i live very in the sticks, and the CWU site is a bit useless

Funny, if you're in the SWP don't they tell you these things?

[Devrim]

furthermore, is there a site or place of infomation detailing picket locations ect? i live very in the sticks, and the CWU site is a bit useless

Look up the Royal Mail delivery office in your yellow pages. They tend to have one in most reasonably sized towns.

Devrim

[cyu]

I don't think that what you are suggesting in any way qualifies as 'direct action'.

But you would be fine with direct action, correct? What kind of direct action would you support?


There are other times when it can be detrimental to a struggle closing the workers up in the factory when they would be better served being outside and making connections with other workplaces.

I am not talking about barricading yourself inside the offices. I am talking about a real takeover - this means all employees show up and run the workplace democratically. If upper management shows up trying to give them orders, they just say "Why don't you go get us some coffee instead?"


I think that there is a general process leading to the development of consciousness and ultimately the mass strike and confrontation with capital and the state... Nor do I see what is timid about what I advocate... What can be done directly with the postal strike on a practical level is, visit picket lines, discuss with strikers, and other workers, collect money for strikers at your workplace, and invite strikers to speak at there.

So you think visiting picket lines and asking for money is not timid, and is also a more effective attack on capitalism than assuming democratic control of companies?


I also think that there is no way that the capitalist state would just give the Post Office to the workers if they occupied it. They wouldn't end up in control at all.

That's why I think two things are important:

1. Weapons to defend yourself.

2. Community outreach in the form of assuming democratic control of the media.

[ls]

I am not talking about barricading yourself inside the offices. I am talking about a real takeover - this means all employees show up and run the workplace democratically. If upper management shows up trying to give them orders, they just say "Why don't you go get us some coffee instead?"

I don't think that this is very likely, given morale of the workers at current. Definitely not all over the country, also people are extremely worried about losing pay (which is what will happen).


So you think visiting picket lines and asking for money is not timid, and is also a more effective attack on capitalism than assuming democratic control of companies?

If you think about this for a while, it becomes clear that it isn't always the best tactic at a given time.

Causing a serious economic effect on royal mail via a backlog.. by coordinated action, building solidarity, support and a more confident mindset in the posties throughout the country is much much more important currently, it feeds itself, as economic wins for the workers will build this and the only way they can make economic wins is by being more confident in their movements against RM.


That's why I think two things are important:

1. Weapons to defend yourself.

2. Community outreach in the form of assuming democratic control of the media.

What do you mean 'assuming democratic control of the media'?

People should storm the BBC building with slingshots and tie Jeremy Clarkson to a chair? Sure, sometimes you can do things like get into radio stations or whatever, but this is not commonplace at all and there is a good reason why.

[Devrim]

I agree with Is' comments here.

To comment on some other points:


But you would be fine with direct action, correct? What kind of direct action would you support?

I am a bit vague as to what you mean by direct action. I am not opposed to breaking the law if that is what you mean.


So you think visiting picket lines and asking for money is not timid, and is also a more effective attack on capitalism than assuming democratic control of companies?

I don't think that workers control of capitalist companies within capitalism is an attack on capitalism. Read the article I linked to on Mogodan, or look at the Israeli Kibbutz movement to see how democratic control can end up.


That's why I think two things are important:

1. Weapons to defend yourself.

What are you suggesting here? Do you think that the postmen should all get guns and shoot a few cops. I think that advocating something like that is absolutely irresponsible.

To give an example, a few days ago some undercover policemen went onto the grounds of one of the universities in Ankara. Some idiotic leftist stabbed one of them. The police then stormed the university using tear gas, and arrested 70 students. In my opinion, the idiot who stabbed the policeman is responsible for all of that. I don't condemn violence against the police in general. At other times it is different. I can remember massive demonstrations of workers attacking undercover policemen during strikes. There is a difference between the situations though.

Devrim

[El Rojo]

if this hasn't already been mentioned, something else that every conrade in the UK can do is re-post all junk mail, hence adding to the back-log. and if one has lots of time on one's hands, write lots of letters! (preferably nasty ones to Crozier)

[cyu]

What do you mean 'assuming democratic control of the media'?

From http://www.revleft.com/vb/weapons-mass-deception-t120176/index.html

1. Take some event in which you feel the local media is only reporting the views of the ruling class (maybe when a strike happens, maybe when there's a protest, maybe there's some event the media totally omits). Organize a largish group of activists to simply walk into your local news room, bring a list of the points you want to make, then stand in front of the camera while they are trying to film and make your points - keep doing it until the points you are making are getting fair play in the local media.

2. Repeat step 1 until it's fairly common. Then move on to a schedule in which activists are regularly assuming democratic control of your local media outlet for maybe 1 day a week, 1 week a month, etc.

3. As step 2 becomes fairly common, move on to advocate full employee democracy and community democracy for the policies and governance of your local media.


I don't think that this is very likely, given morale of the workers at current.

That's why you need to build morale by assuming democratic control of the mass media.

[cyu]

I am a bit vague as to what you mean by direct action.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_action

Basically it's just personally implementing the policy you want. Instead of waiting for the representatives you elected to do what you expected them to do, the electorate does it themselves. Instead of trying to get company executives to change their minds and implement the policy you want, the employees just show up at work and go straight to doing what they wanted.

The rationale behind direct action is that anarchists believe representatives are too easy to corrupt. So instead of waiting for any representative to hem and haw and drag their feet while waiting to be bribed, they ignore the representative altogether and do the action "directly".


I don't think that workers control of capitalist companies within capitalism is an attack on capitalism.

I don't believe workplace democracy is the solution to everything either, however, I'd say it's a much bigger step toward ending capitalism than mere work stoppage strikes. For one, it takes economic power away from the wealthy class - the less power they have, the less they are able to dupe the rest of the population.


What are you suggesting here? Do you think that the postmen should all get guns and shoot a few cops. I think that advocating something like that is absolutely irresponsible.

No, the weapons are only for self defense. For example, union members show up at work, armed. They collect the money they normally do from customers, but instead vote on how to split the money. So the capitalist then sends in his minions to attack the employees. That's when they pull out their weapons - a clear case of self defense.

So will the government then just send in more and more police? That's why you don't just assume democratic control of your company, but of the local media outlets as well. The primary purpose is to prevent the media from sending out only the pro-capitalist party line, to try to convince the local community that police action against the union members is justified. In fact, union members should be using the local media to recruit more support and help from the local community. The more support they have, the less likely local politicians would be willing to send in the police.

So where else do weapons come in? In the process of walking into the local media stations, you may be attacked by the minions of capitalists. That's when you'll need self defense as well.

[Alf]

The ICC in Britain has just produced a leaflet on the current strikes and we invite comrades to download it and distribute it
http://en.internationalism.org/files/en/postal-strike-leaflet-1-2009.pdf

[Uncle Ho]

Yes, there were lots of mail vans, lots of empty mail carts suspiciously left around everywhere, the posties all told me that it's deliberately done by managers to make the strike look like it 'failed'. :rolleyes:

They even had someone driving a royal mail decorated lorry.

And the reason these postal workers aren't destroying these trucks, beating the scabs within an inch of their lives and intimidating their manages with good old Black Cat actions is?

[ls]

And the reason these postal workers aren't destroying these trucks, beating the scabs within an inch of their lives and intimidating their manages with good old Black Cat actions is?

?

Did you read any posts here? Have you attempted to understand the issue in its entirety? The priority is to build a massive backlog at the moment and to build workers' confidence, there have been fightbacks against scabs up in the west mids for instance when they attemped to scab, but saying "WE SHOULD GO OUT AND BASH THE SCABS!111" isn't going to be much use, trust me.

[Uncle Ho]

?

Did you read any posts here? Have you attempted to understand the issue in its entirety? The priority is to build a massive backlog at the moment and to build workers' confidence, there have been fightbacks against scabs up in the west mids for instance when they attemped to scab, but saying "WE SHOULD GO OUT AND BASH THE SCABS!111" isn't going to be much use, trust me.

If that's the priority, the only result will be privatization and joblessness.

Bahgat Singh once said it takes a loud voice to make the deaf hear, yet it seems here all we can muster is a whimper.

[*Viva La Revolucion*]

People should storm the BBC building with slingshots and tie Jeremy Clarkson to a chair? Sure, sometimes you can do things like get into radio stations or whatever, but this is not commonplace at all and there is a good reason why.

Oh, how I'd love to see that. :lol: It would certainly liven up Top Gear.

[Devrim]

cyu, I don't really want to continue this anymore as I think that the arguments on both sides have been presented clearly. I think that yours don't really relate to the position of the class struggle today. I also notice that you have anarchosyndicalist down as your tendency. I think that you'll find that most anarchosyndicalists in the UK are saying things about this strike that are much closer to what I am saying than to what you are. Maybe you should contact them and discuss with them.

Devrim

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Cyu mate I know you mean well but what your proposing isn't realistic at this present time , sometimes less dramatic things are far more effective and efficient.

[ls]

If that's the priority, the only result will be privatization and joblessness.

Bhagat Singh once said it takes a loud voice to make the deaf hear, yet it seems here all we can muster is a whimper.

I already responded to this by PM but I think you should take into account that mr Singh martyr'd himself unfortunately, shame as he was becoming more left, had he shunned the republican army movement he would've been a pretty good spectacle of genuine Indian internationalist communism. I get the distinct sense that he was quite confused about his politics in general, but he never got the chance to really crystally define them.

To actually contribute to this thread, we should note that at least 3 more all-out (every type of worker at RM) 24-hr strikes will be occurring, we need to really be part of this, there has been mass interest from all kinds of different workers, transport, fire brigade etc (I think there was something on libcom about the possible solidarity strikes).

There is a lot of potential here.

[cyu]

I think that yours don't really relate to the position of the class struggle today

Seems like you're just trying to avoid logical debate. If that's not what you're trying to do, then explain why you believe it doesn't relate.


I think that you'll find that most anarchosyndicalists in the UK are saying things about this strike that are much closer to what I am saying than to what you are

Is this supposed to be a bandwagon appeal? If all other anarchosyndicalists believed the sun revolved around the earth, would you agree with them?

If you have real objections, let's hear them. If you want to argue that actions like those described above would be a danger to union members, who may face personal threats to their safety, then yes, I don't deny that is certainly more (immediately) dangerous than the tame actions that the UK government allows.

In response to threats to safety, what are the options? Well, we can either back down and accept oppression, or we can discuss strategies that will help eliminate the threat.

[Also note that a "normal" strike may end with the strikers getting everything they want, and then it would appear that "normal" striking is all you need. However, you also have to consider what management is thinking when they see the "normal" strikers discussing more radical alternatives. The more likely the more radical alternatives would be implemented if management tries to strong-arm the union, the more likely management would see the "normal" demands as a compromise they are willing to accept.]

[cyu]

what your proposing isn't realistic at this present time , sometimes less dramatic things are far more effective and efficient.

Sounds like the same type of argument that union heads would tell union members to try to get them to tone down their militancy.

[CallMeSteve]

Very interesting thread, though some of the comments are ridiculous - notably the call for postal workers to arm and barricade themselves for the purpose of taking over the company. Anyone who believes that this is a wise or even feasible solution is disconnected from reality, and actually hinders the progression of the workers' struggle.

A real solution for this specific struggle would be found in solidarity strikes with other workers (esp. key services like the firefighters in order to add public pressure), and if the CWU stop chucking money at Labour there might be more inclination for non-unionised workers to join and strengthen the organisation and isolate the scabs. As it stands there aren't really many repercussions for scabs within the union, given its close standing with Labour.

[Devrim]

Seems like you're just trying to avoid logical debate. If that's not what you're trying to do, then explain why you believe it doesn't relate.

If that is how you want to think about it you can. I am just not interested in this aspect of the discussion enough to continue. I think that most people on this thread sort of agree with me:


I don't think that this is very likely, given morale of the workers at current. Definitely not all over the country, also people are extremely worried about losing pay (which is what will happen).


Cyu mate I know you mean well but what your proposing isn't realistic at this present time , sometimes less dramatic things are far more effective and efficient.


Very interesting thread, though some of the comments are ridiculous - notably the call for postal workers to arm and barricade themselves for the purpose of taking over the company. Anyone who believes that this is a wise or even feasible solution is disconnected from reality, and actually hinders the progression of the workers' struggle.


Is this supposed to be a bandwagon appeal? If all other anarchosyndicalists believed the sun revolved around the earth, would you agree with them?

I am not an anarchosyndicalist anyway.

Without wanting to sound patronising though I know it will, I imagine you are young, and don't have much experience of political organisations or being on strike. I advised you to contact them because I think that it would be good for you, and help you clarify your ideas.

Devrim

[fidzboi]

Reading over this thread I find myself in agreement with the arguments presented by Devrim and others, however I must admit to finding cyu's politics quite refreshing. His (or her) positions are very antagonistic, very militant. Not necessarily correct, - e.g., worker takeovers of capitalist industries within capitalist economic structures has historically always led back to, uh... capitalist businesses - but refreshing all the same.

Devrim's seems wrong to associate them with youth in this particular instance, - looking over cyu's profile I'd think he was in his 30's, though I've been known to be wrong ;) - but in general, I think revolutionary zeal is a characteristic of youth. And whilst I think it's correct to draw attention to how this can sometimes result in irresponsible praxis, I think the conservatism associated with old age can be just as damaging.

The Bolsheviks' were left to follow in the footsteps of the working class, something Lenin took great issue with. And in a day and age when every revolutionary tendency has predetermined ideas about what social revolution will look like, I fear at times some older worker communists may prove to be a little to stuck in their ways. Meaning they'll argue in favour of a conservative approach when a more aggressive one is needed. They'll follow, not lead. Not saying that's present here, I just think there's a quite nice balance between youthful folly and older conservatism, ideally they'd perfectly cancel each other.

And I emphasise the word worker above because, obviously, 'communists' from outside of the working class divert and stall struggles for more definite material interests. Namely to keep their pampered asses in a nice office as part of the bureaucracy of labour. What the ICC call, if I'm not mistaken, the left of capital.

[cyu]

looking over cyu's profile I'd think he was in his 30's


I won't deny it - but you really can't prove anything on the internet anyway - all the evidence pointing to my age, location, political leanings, could be an elaborate fabrication. For all anybody knows, I and 90% of the posters on this board could be pro-capitalist agents.

What's more important, I think, is to actually discuss the ideas. If an idea is bad, it would be bad regardless of whether it's coming from a 14 year old or a 74 year old.

[Patchd]

There are support networks for the postal workers, with contact details if any of you want to get involved (just PM me), I think I still have the numbers somewhere and they vary from region to region. In some places, like Sheffield, these support networks encorporates all the strikes, Firefighters, postal workers and First company bus drivers.

[cyu]

some of the comments are ridiculous - notably the call for postal workers to arm and barricade themselves for the purpose of taking over the company

Not barricading at all, since in this instance, the work itself means the employees have to be outside. Workplace takeover in this instance would just be continuing to do their jobs like they feel like it, instead of listening to the orders of higher ups.


Anyone who believes that this is a wise or even feasible solution is disconnected from reality, and actually hinders the progression of the workers' struggle.

Excerpts from http://everything2.com/user/gate/writeups/The+Take

The Take (2004)

"Jobs are coming back - jobs are being taken back."
A documentary about the occupied factories of Argentina.

Watch Online: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-take/

Eventually, half the country fell below the poverty line and the currency collapsed. As a result, the government froze all bank accounts in the country. The people rioted. Banks were attacked. And history experienced "the largest sovereign debt default in world history."

Under these circumstances, one would expect if your company went under, that was the end of the story. Not so in Argentina. That was just the beginning.

As workers gathered outside one such closed business, they were saying forget the back wages they were owed, they should just take the factory. A representative from the National Movement of Recovered Factories arrived to lend his support and to give workers options.

The sign for Zanon Ceramics had this description below it: "belongs to the workers". Zanon was one of the first businesses to be taken over by employees. It had been democratically run for 2 years at the time of filming (2004). One worker, one vote - it was run by employee assemblies. There were 300 employees total. Everyone had equal salaries.

Zanon is now under 24 hour guard by employees armed with slingshots. Their real weapon, however, is the support of the community. Says one community member, "There are many companies that should be in the hands of the workers. But it seems that this is not politically convenient. That's the real problem."

Zanon donates tiles to hospitals and schools. Employees, with massive help from supporters in the community, have fought off 6 eviction orders carried out by police - forcing the retreat of the government.

Brukman was the factory that started it all. It was taken over by its seamstresses after it was abandoned by the owners. Says one employee, "There have always been bosses and workers. But we are fighting for worker control... I don't know if I'm getting ahead of myself here, but maybe we can run the country this way."

After letting the factory operate for years, the police were finally ordered to close it down. They have to weld shut the factory gate and build a tall security fence around the entire area. A large crowd gathered outside the police guarded Brukman - many elderly women among them, protesting. People started arriving from around the country to protest. Thousands arrived.

[Uncle Ho]

I already responded to this by PM but I think you should take into account that mr Singh martyr'd himself unfortunately, shame as he was becoming more left, had he shunned the republican army movement he would've been a pretty good spectacle of genuine Indian internationalist communism. I get the distinct sense that he was quite confused about his politics in general, but he never got the chance to really crystally define them.

To actually contribute to this thread, we should note that at least 3 more all-out (every type of worker at RM) 24-hr strikes will be occurring, we need to really be part of this, there has been mass interest from all kinds of different workers, transport, fire brigade etc (I think there was something on libcom about the possible solidarity strikes).

There is a lot of potential here.

There is potential, but when the Torry government, predicted to win big in the next elections has made destroying you one of their chief goals, this potential will not be realized by sitting around and giving them more ammunition to use against you.

A much better tactic would be using your own ammunition against them, but the British seem unusually loathe to depose the ruling class for some odd reason.

[cyu]

I am not an anarchosyndicalist anyway... I advised you to contact them because I think that it would be good for you, and help you clarify your ideas.


As some people who work in sales say: "Treat every objection as a request for more information."

So give us your non-anarchosyndicalist position then. What makes you personally object to the ideas of direct action? Why do you think they will not be effective? Or do you think they expose union members to more potential capitalist violence than is necessary?

[ls]

There is potential, but when the Torry government, predicted to win big in the next elections has made destroying you one of their chief goals, this potential will not be realized by sitting around and giving them more ammunition to use against you.

So you think the labour government are any better?


A much better tactic would be using your own ammunition against them, but the British seem unusually loathe to depose the ruling class for some odd reason.

This is nothing short of hilarious really, yeah "the British" want to be ruled over by the ruling classes.

[Uncle Ho]

So you think the labour government are any better?

Yes.

How much better is up for debate, but they will be better.


This is nothing short of hilarious really, yeah "the British" want to be ruled over by the ruling classes.

If you don't want to be ruled by them, why are you?

You even had a chance to depose them many centuries ago and came back with a pathetic compromise that allows them to strangle your nation to this day.

[ls]

I am inclined to think the above post is some kind of joke, but it isn't. I don't intend on continuing the conversation.

[Devrim]

As some people who work in sales say: "Treat every objection as a request for more information."

So give us your non-anarchosyndicalist position then. What makes you personally object to the ideas of direct action?

I'm not opposed to direct action, and I have no idea why you think I am.

Devrim

[cyu]

I'm not opposed to direct action


Good. If you're not opposed, I would like to hear about the types of direct action you do support. If I think your ideas are great, then I'll switch to advocating them instead =]

[Pogue]

Good. If you're not opposed, I would like to hear about the types of direct action you do support. If I think your ideas are great, then I'll switch to advocating them instead =]

What excactly is it your advocating thats got everyone so worked up?

[cyu]

What excactly is it your advocating thats got everyone so worked up?


Not sure what they're worked up about, but as for what I'm advocating, it's basically just direct action and anarcho-syndicalist takeovers. From http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1576220&postcount=47

This is how it's really done: http://upsidedownworld.org/main/content/view/1875/32/ (http://www.anonym.to/?http://upsidedownworld.org/main/content/view/1875/32/)

"The government has tried to evict them five times using police operatives. On April 8, 2003, during the most recent eviction attempt, over 5,000 community members from Neuquén came out to defend the factory."

From http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1582204&postcount=66

1. Take some event in which you feel the local media is only reporting the views of the ruling class (maybe when a strike happens, maybe when there's a protest, maybe there's some event the media totally omits). Organize a largish group of activists to simply walk into your local news room, bring a list of the points you want to make, then stand in front of the camera while they are trying to film and make your points - keep doing it until the points you are making are getting fair play in the local media.

2. Repeat step 1 until it's fairly common. Then move on to a schedule in which activists are regularly assuming democratic control of your local media outlet for maybe 1 day a week, 1 week a month, etc.

3. As step 2 becomes fairly common, move on to advocate full employee democracy and community democracy for the policies and governance of your local media.

From http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1582221&postcount=67

the weapons are only for self defense. For example, union members show up at work, armed. They collect the money they normally do from customers, but instead vote on how to split the money. So the capitalist then sends in his minions to attack the employees. That's when they pull out their weapons - a clear case of self defense.

So will the government then just send in more and more police? That's why you don't just assume democratic control of your company, but of the local media outlets as well. The primary purpose is to prevent the media from sending out only the pro-capitalist party line, to try to convince the local community that police action against the union members is justified. In fact, union members should be using the local media to recruit more support and help from the local community. The more support they have, the less likely local politicians would be willing to send in the police.

So where else do weapons come in? In the process of walking into the local media stations, you may be attacked by the minions of capitalists. That's when you'll need self defense as well.

From http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1573710&postcount=31

Capitalists would love it if the only tactics that union members can think of are tactics that will turn off the local community. Work-stoppage strikes are one example - if the union stops work, then the local community is hurt because they are no longer getting the services they depend on. Capitalists can then use this discomfort in the local community as a weapon against the strikers. To prevent this, I would instead encourage "working strikes" - strikes in which union members disobey the executives, but continue to serve the local community.

[Lyev]

Headline of the Daily Mail today:
"The Lemming strike goes ahead"

Bastards

I fucking hate the Daily Mail! They're just as racist, bigoted, inane and asinine as any other of those shit, non-news tabloids like the Sun or the Daily Express but they put a smarter front on it, with a slightly nicer font; which is probably even worse. All you have to do is read between the lines and find pseudo-nazi propaganda. Rightist fucks.

[cyu]

Originally Posted by Stranger Than Paradise http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1576111#post1576111)
Headline of the Daily Mail today:
"The Lemming strike goes ahead"

Bastards

I fucking hate the Daily Mail!

Headline of non-capitalist media: "Lemmings buy Daily Mail again."

If you're rich, you can fund the media. The more media you control, the more people you can turn into lemmings. The more lemmings that agree with your media, the more power you have. The more power you have, the richer you get.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

the strikes have been called off

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8345423.stm

[ls]

And CWU "accept some redundancies" might be necessary.

I fear everything has been lost. :/ Even last night at a postal workers support group, we were wondering what was going on, there had been a blackout of communication (in the aptly named CWU) between the union bureaucracy talking to the RM and the rank-and-file.

Bastard union, it looks now more likely than ever that there are going to be redundancies covering something ridiculous like 75% of the workforce, early retirements and possibly the complete falling of CWU as a union, well done to those CWU bureaucrats as they've probably sealed their own fates in their comfy offices.

[Uncle Ho]

I don't want to sound like an asshole here, but I so called this.

If you refuse to fight, you're refusing to win.

[Pogue]

Not sure what they're worked up about, but as for what I'm advocating, it's basically just direct action and anarcho-syndicalist takeovers. From http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1576220&postcount=47

This is how it's really done: http://upsidedownworld.org/main/content/view/1875/32/ (http://www.anonym.to/?http://upsidedownworld.org/main/content/view/1875/32/)

"The government has tried to evict them five times using police operatives. On April 8, 2003, during the most recent eviction attempt, over 5,000 community members from Neuquén came out to defend the factory."

From http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1582204&postcount=66

1. Take some event in which you feel the local media is only reporting the views of the ruling class (maybe when a strike happens, maybe when there's a protest, maybe there's some event the media totally omits). Organize a largish group of activists to simply walk into your local news room, bring a list of the points you want to make, then stand in front of the camera while they are trying to film and make your points - keep doing it until the points you are making are getting fair play in the local media.

2. Repeat step 1 until it's fairly common. Then move on to a schedule in which activists are regularly assuming democratic control of your local media outlet for maybe 1 day a week, 1 week a month, etc.

3. As step 2 becomes fairly common, move on to advocate full employee democracy and community democracy for the policies and governance of your local media.

From http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1582221&postcount=67

the weapons are only for self defense. For example, union members show up at work, armed. They collect the money they normally do from customers, but instead vote on how to split the money. So the capitalist then sends in his minions to attack the employees. That's when they pull out their weapons - a clear case of self defense.

So will the government then just send in more and more police? That's why you don't just assume democratic control of your company, but of the local media outlets as well. The primary purpose is to prevent the media from sending out only the pro-capitalist party line, to try to convince the local community that police action against the union members is justified. In fact, union members should be using the local media to recruit more support and help from the local community. The more support they have, the less likely local politicians would be willing to send in the police.

So where else do weapons come in? In the process of walking into the local media stations, you may be attacked by the minions of capitalists. That's when you'll need self defense as well.

From http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1573710&postcount=31

Capitalists would love it if the only tactics that union members can think of are tactics that will turn off the local community. Work-stoppage strikes are one example - if the union stops work, then the local community is hurt because they are no longer getting the services they depend on. Capitalists can then use this discomfort in the local community as a weapon against the strikers. To prevent this, I would instead encourage "working strikes" - strikes in which union members disobey the executives, but continue to serve the local community.

Arm the workers with what, sorry?

[Stranger Than Paradise]

I don't want to sound like an asshole here, but I so called this.

If you refuse to fight, you're refusing to win.

What the fuck are you talking about? And you do sound like an arsehole....

[cyu]

Arm the workers with what, sorry?


Whatever you can get your hands on :cool:

[cyu]

the strikes have been called off
The ruling class (whether in the company, the government, or union higher ups) probably didn't want an industrial conflict giving anybody any ideas on a day like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_Night

[Pogue]

Whatever you can get your hands on :cool:

So you propose we should have armed the workers on CWU picket lines?

No offense but do you think maybe you've just taken an article you've read to heart and want to be all gung ho about creating a revolution that is maybe a little bit detached from reality?

[Uncle Ho]

What the fuck are you talking about? And you do sound like an arsehole....

This action was half baked from day one, and I was predicting it's utter failure by day two.

If you want change, you don't ask for it, you demand it.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

This action was half baked from day one, and I was predicting it's utter failure by day two.

If you want change, you don't ask for it, you demand it.

What do you expect to happen? They did demand it, they striked, they striked and they striked. But Royal Mail's complete and utter disregard for the workers, coupled with CWU's betrayal of them meant nothing has changed.

[Uncle Ho]

What do you expect to happen? They did demand it, they striked, they striked and they striked. But Royal Mail's complete and utter disregard for the workers, coupled with CWU's betrayal of them meant nothing has changed.

Yes, they went on strike causing an extremely minor inconvenience for people, who then promptly turned against them en masse.

Unless you can answer the question "Or what?" you are just asking, not demanding. You may have to threaten, you may have to go to jail, you may have to hurt some people, but you need to do something instead of just sitting around on the strike lines.

[Patchd]

Sorry Ho, I haven't been keeping up with what you're suggesting the posties do, what is it exactly?

[cyu]

So you propose we should have armed the workers on CWU picket lines?


Since I consider myself an anarchist, I prefer direct action over mere protest or voting. If you're going to carry out civil disobedience / direct action, then you have a few choices: you can certainly do it non-violently and let yourself get beaten, or you can prepare to defend yourself and your fellow employees. If you choose the path of self defense, then you will need weapons.


No offense but do you think maybe you've just taken an article you've read to heart and want to be all gung ho about creating a revolution that is maybe a little bit detached from reality?

You think revolution will happen by using tamer tactics? Which tamer tactics would you prefer? If you're not working for revolution, then do you consider yourself a revolutionary?

If you think this is unrealistic because union members would stand no chance against government forces, then that is a valid claim to make. If that is the claim you're making, then let's discuss how union members can take on capitalist minions and win. If there isn't any way leftists can win, why are we even on this website?

[Uncle Ho]

Sorry Ho, I haven't been keeping up with what you're suggesting the posties do, what is it exactly?

Well, I can't make a strategy for these people, as I don't fully understand their circumstances, but allow me to give you some of my own experiences.

We (The AFL-CIO) are trying to push unionization on the oil rigs and coal mines of Wyoming. The workers are overwhelmingly in favor, but the state easily has the most anti-union laws in the nation, a legacy of Dick Cheney's administration. When we voted for unionization, the mines and rigs simply shut down, laid off their entire workforce and began bussing in scabs.

This was unacceptable, so we ensured that the scabs (Who were untrained) found themselves in a workplace full of broken equipment, and the keys to even enter the mines and rigs had been mysteriously lost.

This wasn't good enough, however, so we escalated things. I got the IBEW power plant workers to refuse to burn any non-union mined coal, and the USW refinery crews to refuse to refine any non-union oil. This action would throw not only the state of Wyoming, but half the nation into rolling blackouts, and would totally destroy the bottom lines of the companies.

Within 2 days, they relented and we got to the table. Things aren't going so well there, so our strike may well go forth.

These are the sorts of things you have to do. Sitting around waving strike signs isn't going to accomplish anything.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

]Postal Worker on Modernisation




In the Sorting Office - on the 2009 post strike

A postman explains Royal mail's "modernisation" programme and how it affects workers and service delivery.

Like Roy Mayall writing in your issue of 24 September, I am a postman and concerned at the absence in the media of any account of how mail delivery is organised and what Royal Mail’s modernisation programme entails. The programme was introduced because the popularity of email and texting has caused a drop in mail volume. Royal Mail’s first step was to reduce the number of walks. It did this by cutting some walks in each area and making the remaining walks longer. A postman who normally delivered mail to six streets, say, now found himself delivering to eight or nine. During the summer months, when mail volumes were low, he could, perhaps, just cope with this. But as autumn begins and the Christmas catalogues start to come out, every week and sometimes every day can be heavy. In the run-up to last Christmas, there were postmen who only finished their walks at 7 or 8 p.m., sometimes two or three times a week. In one depot alone, around 15 postmen phoned in sick. This Christmas, with the even longer walks, it could be worse. Royal Mail is a strong promoter of general health and safety, but as the walks lengthen and the loads increase, many of us feel that our own health isn’t being taken into consideration.

The next step in the modernisation was to stop overtime. The new, longer walks were generated by a computer program called Pegasus. We were assured that Pegasus had made all the new walks around three hours long. Some of the walks were indeed three hours long, and the postmen on those rounds had no trouble completing them in time. But a significant number turned out to be considerably longer – some of them up to four and a half hours long – and mail began piling up as postmen brought post back at the end of the day because they couldn’t deliver their loads without working extra, unpaid time.

The most recently introduced measure is to return from a four-day week to a five-day week. For postmen working a 40-hour week, this means there will be two hours fewer each day to deliver the same amount of post. It is now no longer possible for any postman – including those doing the three-hour walks – to complete his or her walk in the allotted time, no matter how fast they walk. As the pressures increase, many postmen who have been with Royal Mail for a long time are taking voluntary redundancy. A lot of knowledgeable, hard-working postmen are leaving.

Postmen speculate endlessly as to why Royal Mail is making it impossible for us to do our job properly. The most common theory is that Royal Mail actually wants to get rid of us and replace us with casual workers. Traditionally, Royal Mail hires casual staff to help deliver the heavy Christmas mail. This year the casuals never left. As required, they can be phoned at a moment’s notice to come in and help out. They may be asked to work for just a few hours or a whole day. If mail volumes are low, they are not called and are not paid. When paid, they are paid less per hour than the full-time postmen. And because, as casual workers, they cannot join the union, they have no representation if and when things go wrong. At present Royal Mail favours the casuals, but in time, if they start experiencing the pressures the postmen are facing now, there won’t be a union to protect them. In contrast to the casuals, postmen are mostly on 40-hour-week contracts. When they go on holiday or get sick, Royal Mail continues to pay their salaries. All these costs and difficulties fall away with casual workers. From a financial perspective, Royal Mail may think that getting rid of its long-serving postmen is worth it.

Maybe the fact that Royal Mail is now run by managers who have little or no hands-on experience and who use computer-generated models to organise everything is the explanation. We experienced this directly with Pegasus when some walks turned out to be considerably longer than others. The data that had been fed into Pegasus were standardised: each walk had a set number of destinations, with so many seconds to walk up a garden path, so many seconds to put letters through a letterbox etc. Not only did Pegasus get the total timings spectacularly wrong, but the walks made much less sense than when they were organised by the postmen themselves: for instance, a postman could find himself walking an extra 200 yards down the road to deliver mail to six letterboxes that would have more easily and naturally fitted into someone else’s walk.

A more cynical theory is that Royal Mail is being deliberately run into the ground so that when the next opportunity to privatise it comes around, people will be so fed up that they will accept it as the unavoidable solution to getting their post on time again.

A postman on a 40-hour contract works an eight-hour day on average. He or she spends the first two or three hours sorting the unsorted mail in the depots. He then takes 30 minutes for breakfast. For the next two or three hours he sequences the mail for his own walk so that he can deliver it door to door. He then has to travel to and from his walk and deliver his mail in the remaining time. It can’t be done, at least not without overtime, which Royal Mail has stopped altogether. Casual workers, however, don’t have to sort mail at the depot – this is done for them by the postmen on 40-hour contracts. Instead, they move straight to sequencing their door-to-door mail. When they leave the depot, they can take as long as they need to deliver their mail. On the heavier walks, some work 12-hour days. That’s how long it really takes to sequence and deliver some walks – and that’s without sorting!

Working for Royal Mail has become a bewildering experience. Depot managers pressure and harass us to comply to rigidly fixed unworkable schedules. They insist we take out full loads of mail, which they know and we know cannot be delivered in the allotted time. We therefore constantly bring back the undelivered surplus and waste time the following day getting it ready to take out again. Meanwhile, the depot managers can report the walk as cleared to their superiors, who are obviously putting them under pressure too. It’s evident that some depot managers are just as unhappy with this state of affairs. Their orders are to push out as much mail every day as possible, regardless of the amount that comes back at the end of each shift.

Of course the strike is adding to the chaos, but it is not causing it. The one-day-a-week strike – now countrywide – is an attempt to pressure Royal Mail to come to the table to discuss the dire situation and a way for postmen to express support and solidarity with one another as we face an onslaught of unmeetable demands.

Link:http://libcom.org/library/sorting-office-2009-post-strikes

[ls]

I don't want to sound like an asshole here, but I so called this.

If you refuse to fight, you're refusing to win.

I honestly don't think workers arming themselves and refusing entry to the tiny amount of scabs who attempted to cross the lines around the country (or indeed the managers either) would've amounted to much, much less so if they sabotaged the equipment for sorting the mail and the vans and such (I am confident that A) the level of sabotage would've been too low in accordance with the amount of strike time and that B) they would've found a way around all that sabotage), of course you might be right in some sense that there wasn't enough worker militancy, that there wasn't enough pushing of electing delegates to form committees and unofficial action and the like.

[Pogue]

Since I consider myself an anarchist, I prefer direct action over mere protest or voting. If you're going to carry out civil disobedience / direct action, then you have a few choices: you can certainly do it non-violently and let yourself get beaten, or you can prepare to defend yourself and your fellow employees. If you choose the path of self defense, then you will need weapons.



You think revolution will happen by using tamer tactics? Which tamer tactics would you prefer? If you're not working for revolution, then do you consider yourself a revolutionary?

If you think this is unrealistic because union members would stand no chance against government forces, then that is a valid claim to make. If that is the claim you're making, then let's discuss how union members can take on capitalist minions and win. If there isn't any way leftists can win, why are we even on this website?

Please don't be another person to assume any criticism of someones ideas or actions at a given time ammounts to a rejection of armed revolution. Obviously I support armed revolution, that doesn't mean whenever I do some revolutionary work I do it with a weapon in my hand. I don't join picket lines with a stanley and a AK.

What I am saying is you were proposing we arm workers in what was quite a tame 1 day strike, which takes the idea of arming the working class completely out of context and is absurd, do you honestly think posties on a one day strike would like having anarchists propose they hold weapons.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Uncle Ho and cyu are not looking at these strikes for what they were. Your expectations are extremely overly optimistic and don't really take into account the nature and context of these strikes.

[cyu]

I honestly don't think workers arming themselves and refusing entry to the tiny amount of scabs who attempted to cross the lines around the country (or indeed the managers either) would've amounted to much, much less so if they sabotaged the equipment for sorting the mail and the vans and such


Personally, I am opposed to harassing scabs and sabotage.

1) Scabs are wage slaves as well. They may be right-wingers, or they may just be people so desperate for money, that they'd do anything they can to pay the bills. In either case, I would support trying to convert them, rather than alienate them.

2) I'd say destroying the means of production isn't nearly as useful as taking control of the means of production. The point is to build a world where employees are producing for everyone - not a world where employees are producing pretty much just for the wealthy - and also not a world where they're not producing for anybody because all the equipment has been destroyed.

[cyu]

whenever I do some revolutionary work I do it with a weapon in my hand. I don't join picket lines with a stanley and a AK.


If you live in a country where passing out flyers or standing on a soapbox isn't going to get you attacked, then there is no need for weapons. But if you live in a country where that may indeed get you attacked, then it would be smarter to not only have a weapon, but bring along a few friends with them as well.


What I am saying is you were proposing we arm workers in what was quite a tame 1 day strike

That's the thing - I'm saying it should be much more than a tame 1 day strike. I am encouraging the last part of this article from http://everything2.com/user/gate/writeups/bloodless+revolution

When you hear of revolutions from books or other people, it often involves some kind of bloodshed or violence - perhaps even some sort of civil war.

What follows are some types of revolutions that do not involve the shedding of blood.

Constitutional Revolution
These revolutions happen within the existing constitutional framework of the country.

Mass Conversion
This type of revolution usually does not happen quickly, but perhaps slowly over a short number of years. It happens when nearly everyone within the society decides to change their behavior, perhaps because of new scientific discoveries or compelling new ideas in social organization. It may not even involve a change in the actual people in government - instead, the people just start doing things differently.

Voting for Revolution
This type of revolution occurs only at the ballot box. Voters may decide to vote for politicians entirely different from the ones they voted for in the past, or the legislation passed may be entirely different from past legislation.

Constitutional Overhaul
While the revolution imagined in popular culture may involve an armed militia overthrowing the existing constitution, the constitutional process itself can still be used to completely change it. For example, if some nation's constitution requires 70% of the vote for approval of changes, then 70% of the people could vote in so many changes to the country's constitution that it is virtually unrelated to the constitution before the "revolution".

Civil Disobedient Revolution
These revolutions involve peaceful, but flagrant violations of existing legal norms.

Mass Civil Disobedience
This involves changing the government by organizing very large numbers of people to openly defy the law. If even large sections of the police population join in, then the political system would have effectively changed, even without actual legislation.

General Strike
A variation of mass civil disobedience that focuses on not going to work. Strikers hope to force the minority of government and business officials to respect their demands or else they would bring the country to a standstill. If there is enough support for the strike, then the officials themselves may be replaced.

Occupations and Takeovers
These movements often have the potential to result in some violence, even if violence is not the actual intent. In order for an occupation or takeover to work, the occupiers need to be able to make use of whatever it is they are occupying - which means this is usually the employees of a company or organization that are involved.

Non-Violent Occupations
In these occupations, employees assume democratic control over their places of work. If they are unmolested, then they carry on doing the work of the companies or organizations. However, because the companies are now controlled by different people, significant change may sweep the country. If they are attacked, either by police or hired thugs, those engaged in non-violence would either run, allow themselves to be arrested, or allow themselves to be beaten.

Takeovers with Self-Defence
This is similar to the non-violent scenario above, except that the revolutionaries are willing to use self-defence. As long as they are unmolested, they are virtually indistinguishable from the non-violent (except, perhaps, for the presence of weapons on the premises) - they merely carry on changing the behavior of the organizations they now control. However, when attacked, the "revolution" would no longer be bloodless. Thus it falls in the hands of the attackers to determine whether the revolution would be bloodless or not.

[Uncle Ho]

Honestly, revolutions without at least the credible threat of violence are about as likely to succeed as entering a boxing match with no arms.

[Steve_j]

Um.... this was a strike, not a revolution.

[ls]

Honestly, revolutions without at least the credible threat of violence are about as likely to succeed as entering a boxing match with no arms.

Comrade, we should all try boxing without any arms before we bash it do you not think.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I support the CWU with regards to the Royal Mail dispute unreservedly.

I would have pressed for the most militant of strike actions. Any compromise here is likely to just delay lay offs and more exploitation of the workers. I imagine that it will allow the Tories to sell off the Royal Mail to a private company some time from 2010 onwards, which would render the workers unable to win any future battles.

[Patchd]

Leeds rubbish collectors have been on strike since 7th September, recently there was rumours of it's potentiality to spread here, to Sheffield although that's subsided after the GMB union in Sheffield went into talks with Veolia (company that manages rubbish collection here in Sheffield) after it planned to give Sheffield workers a £6K slash to their annual salary. There have been strikes going on quite often here, not only have postal workers come out on strike (obviously they've gone back to work now thanks to their union management capitulating), but also South Yorkshire fire service (who have also gone back to work after a deal made by the union management and the bosses) and the First group bus drivers in Sheffield, who are still taking strike action against their management.

One driver was given disciplinary action after taking a day out to bury his mother rather than come into work, another for taking time out to recover from treatment for testicular cancer. Council and private refuse management have begun using a trick to slash the wages of workers in male-dominated sectors, such as rubbish collection, they claim that the wages of male and female workers in that workplace is substantially different, which in some cases it is, and to comply with equality regulations, they must make the pay equal, which leads them to not raise the pay of female members of staff, but by cutting that of the male workers. In workspheres like rubbish collection, some of these workers will not have even seen a female work alongside them before. It's the same story everywhere really, management bullying, and mistreatment of their workers, building up frustation in a time when we may still yet to see the economy go down even further.

We keep seeing capitulation by union management though, no surprise as this is their role and this is what they have been doing for years now, but the workers on the pickets do realise this, and many are angry with their union bosses.

[ls]

I support the CWU with regards to the Royal Mail dispute unreservedly.

I would have pressed for the most militant of strike actions. Any compromise here is likely to just delay lay offs and more exploitation of the workers. I imagine that it will allow the Tories to sell off the Royal Mail to a private company some time from 2010 onwards, which would render the workers unable to win any future battles.

Well, no surprises here as your name makes me think "soc-dem" immediately.

Anyway, the CWU are the people who ended the strike so one might wanna doublethink.

[Devrim]

You think revolution will happen by using tamer tactics? Which tamer tactics would you prefer? If you're not working for revolution, then do you consider yourself a revolutionary?

It isn't a question of 'not working for revolution'. It is a question of being realistic about what is poossible at any given moment. I am for the armed seizure of power by the workers' councils, but last time I was on strike, at a small company with about 20 employees, I didn't call for it.

You can't call for a seizure of power now. It just sounds absurd, and if anything like those Trotskyist groups who completely unrelated to what is happening are always calling for a general strike.


Personally, I am opposed to harassing scabs and sabotage.

1) Scabs are wage slaves as well. They may be right-wingers, or they may just be people so desperate for money, that they'd do anything they can to pay the bills. In either case, I would support trying to convert them, rather than alienate them.

2) I'd say destroying the means of production isn't nearly as useful as taking control of the means of production. The point is to build a world where employees are producing for everyone - not a world where employees are producing pretty much just for the wealthy - and also not a world where they're not producing for anybody because all the equipment has been destroyed.

It is strange that you were calling other people timid previously. I don't think that a focus on attacking scabs is positive, and agree with you on the general point. However, there are times when it is necessary to physically stop people from going to work.

On the point of sabotage, sure it would be better to take over the means of production now. It isn't happening though, and sabotage can be a tactic that workers use in struggle. Again it isn't always the best tactic, but there are times when revolutionaries have to defend it.


If you live in a country where passing out flyers or standing on a soapbox isn't going to get you attacked, then there is no need for weapons. But if you live in a country where that may indeed get you attacked, then it would be smarter to not only have a weapon, but bring along a few friends with them as well.

I live in a country, not city, where people have been attacked for giving out leaflets, and there have even been attempted lynchings. Do you think that giving out leaflets with guns would have made the victims any safer?

Devrim

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Well, no surprises here as your name makes me think "soc-dem" immediately.

Anyway, the CWU are the people who ended the strike so one might wanna doublethink.

I'll ignore cheap jibes. I imagine that, seeing as that was the first thing that came to your mind, you are less interested in having an open and honest debate on this issue, than peddling your own 'truths' and undermining those with differing views to yourself.

I am not normally a huge fan of TUs. In this country, there is endemic reformism running through them. I guess you are perhaps right that the CWU are not a revolutionary vehicle. Perhaps I should rephrase, and say that I support those who were ready and willing to enable strike action.

[cyu]

It is a question of being realistic about what is poossible at any given moment.

I agree, but our goal should be to make that possible and to discuss ways to get from a scenario in which it is not possible, to one in which it is possible. Again from http://www.revleft.com/vb/weapons-mass-deception-t120176/index.html

1. Take some event in which you feel the local media is only reporting the views of the ruling class (maybe when a strike happens, maybe when there's a protest, maybe there's some event the media totally omits). Organize a largish group of activists to simply walk into your local news room, bring a list of the points you want to make, then stand in front of the camera while they are trying to film and make your points - keep doing it until the points you are making are getting fair play in the local media.

2. Repeat step 1 until it's fairly common. Then move on to a schedule in which activists are regularly assuming democratic control of your local media outlet for maybe 1 day a week, 1 week a month, etc.

3. As step 2 becomes fairly common, move on to advocate full employee democracy and community democracy for the policies and governance of your local media.


It is strange that you were calling other people timid previously.

My goal is a society for everyone, not one where people are excluded for new reasons, just as class background, or whether your grandfather was a landlord.

From http://www.labornotes.org/node/766

Jay Gould, a railroad executive in the 1880s to the 1890s made the following quote: "I can pay one half the working class to kill the other half"

If you want to fall for the divide and conquer tactics of the capitalist class, be my guest, but those tactics won't have my support.


I live in a country, not city, where people have been attacked for giving out leaflets, and there have even been attempted lynchings. Do you think that giving out leaflets with guns would have made the victims any safer?

In your scenario, these are the choices I see:

1. Don't give out leaflets.

2. Give out leaflets without being able to defend yourself.

3. Give out leaflets with the ability to defend yourself.

#1 is obviously the safest choice. But if you want to give out leaflets regardless, then #3 is obviously safer than #2.

[Q]

I just read an interesting article (http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/793/militantscondemn.php) on the betrayal of the CWU leadership:


Militants condemn sell-out

Abandoning postal strikes in the run-up to Christmas is at best mistaken, writes Jim Moody

Did they jump or were they pushed? No doubt various factors exercised the leaders of the Communication Workers Union in deciding to abandon last week’s scheduled strike action.

As the CWU’s postal executive committee discussions and negotiations with Royal Mail were in closed sessions, we may never know the full facts. Nor is the CWU’s national executive committee forthcoming. But despite the pious promises made in return for the CWU calling off the strike action, postal workers have been placed in an impossible position, and their struggle to secure their long-term future has basically been abandoned by their so-called leaders.

Concessions by Royal Mail are minimal. Its promise to negotiate on job security is by no means a guarantee that there will be no redundancies or even no compulsory redundancies. It was certainly far from sufficient reason to call off a strike when the employer was at its most vulnerable, as Royal Mail was when faced with being unable to deliver a sizeable chunk of the Christmas post.

Worse, many unagreed changes locally imposed by management ‘executive action’ - enforced switches in shifts and delivery rounds, for example, not to mention the ‘temporary’ transfer of mail centre work to ‘out houses’ staffed by casual labour - remain in place. In response branch officers are talking about requesting authorisation for fresh local strikes.

When it comes down to it, general secretary Billy Hayes and deputy general secretary Dave Ward have achieved what they have been suggesting to management in speeches for months: we can call off the strikes if you give us something we can sell. One member of the NEC told me that there was a distinct lack of clarity within the union at all levels on the aims of the strike anyway.

Management has therefore not had to give very much away: Hayes and Ward declared themselves amenable to compromise if management would only show itself in similar colours. That is why some of the reasons put forward for the sell-out are more likely erroneous than not. For example, some have suggested that management might have threatened to press on immediately with derecognition of the union, something that a secret Royal Mail plan did envisage.

Or perhaps the Broad Left minority (eight out of 28 voting members on the NEC), the more rightwing Effective Left (dubbed ‘Defective Left’ by opponents), plus unorganised members - erstwhile militants almost to a man and woman - on leading CWU committees wanted to abase themselves before New Labour to bolster its fading electoral fortunes rather than do the job they were put in place to do: represent the interests of CWU members. As it happens, most of the Broad Left members of the NEC are on the telecoms side.

But neither of these two scenarios appears likely to union militants. They consider it much more probable that union leaders felt they risked losing control of the strikes if they continued with them. To get more than paper concessions from Royal Mail it would have been necessary to escalate the action, without doubt. This would have involved ceding control over the day-to-day running of the strikes to the mass of the members, who would have needed to organise picket rotas, solidarity appeals, etc. without the involvement of national bureaucrats.

Nonetheless, abandoning strikes in the run-up to Christmas, Royal Mail’s busiest time of the year, is at best mistaken and at worst a treacherous turn by CWU leaders. Both sides are well aware that comparatively few items of post are delivered in January, which is the earliest that the union’s leadership expects to contemplate further action, should it deem necessary. And why would it not be necessary, since management promises to negotiate can simply come down to reiterating previous positions on job losses and speed-ups? Having lost its purchase by abandoning strikes now, the union faces an uphill battle against a bellicose foe in the new year. Is it more likely that postal workers would rather fight now or after the Christmas break? No-one can in all seriousness suggest the second, if they want the workers to win.

One militant postal worker to whom I spoke told me that the mood in the workplace is roughly, “What the fuck are we going back to work for?” As days go by, this is settling into a ‘making the best of a bad job’ attitude. He said: “It’s a sell-out masquerading as something else” - an assessment that is still to be disproved. Nonetheless, postal workers do intend pushing the promises about local arrangements in the interim agreement as far as they can - and even further.

Of course, the biggest worry about the November 5 interim agreement among the membership is whether it represents a truce or a surrender. Many militants thought that involving the TUC would mean an immediate cave-in by the union; in the event, it took the CWU leaders a week to come up with the interim agreement with management.

Local industrial action by postal workers was the engine that propelled the union bureaucracy into calling national strikes: first one-day affairs, then a planned, but now aborted, couple of days as we started into November. The evident militancy fuelled by the mass of members’ anger over Royal Mail’s destruction of jobs and speed-ups (euphemistically labelled ‘pace’ in the recent agreement) now has nowhere to go, given the demoralising effect that the leadership’s action will inevitably have had.

Despite calls from some far-left groups for the union membership in the localities to restart the strike under its own control, the absence of rank and file organisation within the CWU means that such calls cannot be fleshed out in any meaningful way. There is no network and no organised debates at any level about the rights and wrongs of the action being taken. No-one, apart from those making the calls, sees this happening. This is a national issue.

The same goes for officially sanctioned local actions (which in any case will clearly not be approved by the NEC). At present, most lower-level union officials at the regional level fully support the interim agreement, so they form a barrier that extends down from national level to any attempt by local union organisations to take back the strike as their own on a large geographical base. Even cooperation across London, which led the way in militancy during the local strike wave earlier this year, is hampered by this regional lethargy.

While the sole Socialist Workers Party member of the national executive, vice-president Jane Loftus, has pitched up at meetings and in articles to promote the strike, there has been hardly a squeak out of the two national executive members who are members of the Socialist Party in England and Wales, Gary Jones and Bernard Roome. But maybe their silence is because of the extreme compartmentalisation within the union that favours bureaucratic manoeuvring by full-time officials. Telecoms members of the NEC are, after all, not expected to interest themselves (or ‘interfere’) in disputes involving the postal side. On the face of it, this obstacle to internal solidarity is in massive contradiction to the solidarity in the rest of the working class movement that postal workers ought to expect as their right in their current struggle.

What the interim agreement does do is pass things back to the localities on a bad basis. They will be left to their own devices, rather than being part of a nationally organised dispute. Local negotiations may have been reinstated, which is all well and good, but how long will they continue and what can they achieve in terms of binding agreements? The interim agreement calls for fortnightly reviews of progress over the next five weeks. Of course, five weeks takes us close to the end of December, which is pretty convenient for management. If anything goes awry by the end of this period of the cessation of hostilities, then we shall be into a stage when Royal Mail is already breathing easier, having finagled a solution to its Christmas delivery problem.

As for the most important questions concerning job losses and speed-ups, the interim agreement has only platitudes to offer. One paragraph reads: “This agreement between Royal Mail and the CWU, reached under the auspices of the TUC, provides the basis for a ‘period of calm’ free of industrial action, during which the parties are firmly committed to work together intensively, to reach agreements that will enable further change and modernisation to be implemented from the beginning of 2010 onward.”

So “modernisation”, though given a different content by management and the CWU, is accepted by both sides. The words “change and modernisation” have a deadly ring about them for the mass of postal workers, however, for they have seen where they have already led: the loss of many thousands of jobs.

It is pretty clear that Royal Mail has sewn up what for it is a great deal in order to buy time - a most valued asset. Management must be cock-a-hoop. At the end of the local review discussions that the agreement document lays down management can quite easily revert to its former positions and again bully, victimise and call for ‘pace’.

By settling for a period of no strikes on the basis of mere promises the union leadership has forfeited any real leverage. None of the CWU leaders who have spoken to meetings of union reps since the interim agreement was announced have dared to suggest that it has been accepted because of the union membership’s weakness or lack of resolve: this has clearly not been the case. There has been no trace of any drift back to work in the course of the strike.

It may not be exactly a perfidious leadership that has brought this dispute to the pretty pass it has, but the inability of rank and file members to bring leaders to heel by organising themselves independently has taken its toll in allowing the bureaucrats free rein. Unless postal workers organise themselves independently of their officials, they will be unable to change this state of affairs - or inspire other workers who, make no mistake, will also be in the firing line.

[cyu]

Despite calls from some far-left groups for the union membership in the localities to restart the strike under its own control, the absence of rank and file organisation within the CWU means that such calls cannot be fleshed out in any meaningful way. There is no network and no organised debates at any level about the rights and wrongs of the action being taken.


Goal #1 of capitalists: make sure there are no unions.

Goal #2 of capitalists: if unions do form, try to get your own guys in there to make it as ineffectual as possible. Then you can criticize them for being corrupt and not representative of the rank and file. The more disillusionment you can create, the more you can convince people to stay away from the union movement.

It's like that joke about (American) Republicans: Republicans claim government actions always fail, so they can get elected to prove their claim.

[ls]

It may not be exactly a perfidious leadership that has brought this dispute to the pretty pass it has, but the inability of rank and file members to bring leaders to heel by organising themselves independently has taken its toll in allowing the bureaucrats free rein. Unless postal workers organise themselves independently of their officials, they will be unable to change this state of affairs - or inspire other workers who, make no mistake, will also be in the firing line.

In a sense, it may be too late this time and the workers are pretty demoralised, I'm not sure, we shall see (I hope).

If we see action just before christmas, obviously that could be extremely positive.