rise in fascism in US and Europe related.

[ellipsis]

From what I read/hear, there has been a significant increase in right-wing vigilantism, such as the minute men and acts of fascist/racist violence/terrorism, such as the shooting at the Holocaust memorial and the murder of Dr. Tiller because he performed abortions.

In europe I heard about a unarmed civilian corp, the National guard that was formed in Crete which now wears neo-fascist garb and whose officers say things like "the majority of immigrants are drug dealers and prostitutes or whatever". In England the English Defense League is gaining power. In holland a very anti-muslim party has been growing in power.

My question is, are these movements/people connected to a broader up swing in fascism or in any way related?

[Pogue]

From what I read/hear, there has been a significant increase in right-wing vigilantism, such as the minute men and acts of fascist/racist violence/terrorism, such as the shooting at the Holocaust memorial and the murder of Dr. Tiller because he performed abortions.

In europe I heard about a unarmed civilian corp, the National guard that was formed in Crete which now wears neo-fascist garb and whose officers say things like "the majority of immigrants are drug dealers and prostitutes or whatever". In England the English Defense League is gaining power. In holland a very anti-muslim party has been growing in power.

My question is, are these movements/people connected to a broader up swing in fascism or in any way related?

Saying the English Defence League is gaining power is absurd mate. They have the same 100 people on all demonstrations, everywhere they turn up they have been defeated and humiliated, it is nothing we can't and are not dealing with, don't submit to any scaremongering or lies, they are nothing.

[Holden Caulfield]

My question is, are these movements/people connected to a broader up swing in fascism or in any way related?


In time of downturn or crisis of capitalism the political compass often swings to the left of right as the working class try to find the answers and the solutions to their economic problems. Its our duty to make sure they turn to the left and that the struggle for equality, and for revolution picks up pace.

The left realise that revolution is necessary, that capitalism is a base system and that it can only be corrected by being overthrown.

The state and the ruling class don't want this to happen. Obviously.

So they use the media and the press to spread divisions. Divisions based on anything but class. Some elements of the ruling class support fascist parties such as Nick Griffin and the BNP to divide us. Some like Glenn Beck and Fox news play on lingering racism to divide us. The bourgeois press uses immigrants as scapegoats for the problems of the economic mode, in Romania they blame gypsies, in the UK Muslims, in America Blacks & Latino people.

Its almost a subliminal division as well, it stops people from rebelling.

I'll give a peronal example. The case of people turning on Eastern European immigrants in Northern Ireland. Its obvious that Northern Ireland was hit hard because of its neo-liberal polcies, because of the greedy British government supporting a corrupt system thhen making the workers pay for its mistakes. However people get more pissed off about (and this is assuming the false accusations against the Romanians are true, which they aren't) immigrants who live off benafits and at most take thousands from 'us', than the bosses, the capitalists, the governments, who take BILLIONS, who cut our pay, who make us redundant, who keep us down.

Why do they get more pissed off? because thats what the press tell them about everyday over breakfast. Why does the press tell them this? Because it is run by rich people with the same interests as the rich people who run the businesses and the country.

********************

Often when the people have swung left and are on the verge of sucess the bourgeois and the ruling classes turn to fascism as the best way to keep us down. Mussolini was supported by big industrialists as his blackshirts broke up strikes, Hitler gained support of the old political elites as he divided the working class by scapegoating Jews and by fighting the left, Pinochet stopped Allende and was supported by the US and big business, Franco gained the support of the Spanish Elites as well as the global governments (effectively) as he stopped the Anarchists and Communists from suceeding. etc etc etc

[ellipsis]

Saying the English Defence League is gaining power is absurd mate. They have the same 100 people on all demonstrations, everywhere they turn up they have been defeated and humiliated, it is nothing we can't and are not dealing with, don't submit to any scaremongering or lies, they are nothing.

You'd never no what a non-issue they were from the number of threads devoted to them in this forum.:D

I was actually thinking of the British Nationalist Party, in addition to the EDL. Maybe I'm wrong but from what I gather, these groups have some substantial public support or are manifestation of sentiments among a significant section of the population.
For perspective, I can't think of any similar group here in NEW England, although there was/is a small group of minute men in northern vt, guarding us from all of the immigrants streaming across the Canadian border. If there were even 10 neo-nazis/fascists demonstrating in Boston or New York or Vermont, it would be a big deal.

[ls]

You'd never no what a non-issue they were from the number of threads devoted to them in this forum.:D

:lol: So true.


I was actually thinking of the British Nationalist Party, in addition to the EDL. Maybe I'm wrong but from what I gather, these groups have some substantial public support or are manifestation of sentiments among a significant section of the population.

Like Holden said so eloquently, people will look for an alternative when Capitalism looks unappealing and it can be Left or Right. But tbh like many comrades on here have been saying, the level of class-struggle (several factory occupations, mass strikes) in the UK has risen significantly, it's way way better than in the 90s when things looked much more grim, so there's no point in looking in despair.


For perspective, I can't think of any similar group here in NEW England, although there was/is a small group of minute men in northern vt, guarding us from all of the immigrants streaming across the Canadian border. If there were even 10 neo-nazis/fascists demonstrating in Boston or New York or Vermont, it would be a big deal.

Let's hope they get what's coming to them some day soon. :cool: I think the level of class-struggle is becoming better in the US, recent actions like those dockworkers refusing to help the Honduran Capitalist classes and the Boeing strikes are some examples.

Also, in Greece you can simply hear about class-struggle activity going on every day, atm the left movement is probably more powerful than the right movement there.

[Dimentio]

In Sweden, funnily enough, immigrants are not attacked through the press. Rather, the right-wing newspapers are attacking those who are unemployed and on disability benefits more regularily.

[Tifosi]

The EDl have no power at all. At most they have 3000 members, like that's enough to bring the goverment to it's knee's. The left may have even less support. People are told stop fascism by voting anyone else but BNP so New Labour and the Torys will always hold the power. The fash seem to keep their groups and partys together, something the left has trouble with e.g. The communist Party of Britian split. Meaning more support for the fash instead of one voting one and the next for another. Splits are never good. People seem to think the EDL is bigger than it really is because of all the media coverge it gets, just making people shit themselfs. The left needs to get it's act together fast or it will be forgoting by the pupil and people need to take shit they see in the papers at face value

[Holden Caulfield]

The EDl have no power at all. At most they have 3000 members


do you mean 300?

[noway]

they are related because we own europe... 70,000 troops in Germany... HELLO??:laugh:

[noway]

oh yeah, 3000 troops in italy.. and 120,000 troops in the European command

[Tifosi]

do you mean 300?

Doesn't really matter if it is 3000 or 300. Still far to small to get any real power.

[Holden Caulfield]

^ I know but they have nowt like 3000 people, I thought you might have just pressed '0' once to many

[ls]

oh yeah, 3000 troops in italy.. and 120,000 troops in the European command

'european command'? More like wank fantasy command.

[Stand Your Ground]

I think it is related. I have a feeling their getting tired of sitting around not doing anything and planning something big.

[proudcomrade]

I think it is related. I have a feeling their getting tired of sitting around not doing anything and planning something big.

I do, too. Frankly, I am concerned, even nervous. It is easy enough to write off the 9/12/teabag/Beck phenomenon as a bunch of stupid and/or psycho hillbillies; but I think that this is burying our heads in the sand when we do it. The level of anger and animosity coming from them has gone through the roof in the past decade, and they are rapidly inching further and further toward militancy. With our own comrades scattered and few, and the liberals sitting around smirking at them and not deigning to respond, I wonder how much further out of control they will be allowed to get. I am not panicked or fearing doomsday just yet; however, like I said, I have a concerned eye on the whole thing.

[Stand Your Ground]

I do, too. Frankly, I am concerned, even nervous. It is easy enough to write off the 9/12/teabag/Beck phenomenon as a bunch of stupid and/or psycho hillbillies; but I think that this is burying our heads in the sand when we do it. The level of anger and animosity coming from them has gone through the roof in the past decade, and they are rapidly inching further and further toward militancy. With our own comrades scattered and few, and the liberals sitting around smirking at them and not deigning to respond, I wonder how much further out of control they will be allowed to get. I am not panicked or fearing doomsday just yet; however, like I said, I have a concerned eye on the whole thing.
Agreed. If they get too out of control I think even ordinary people who see it happening will start striking back.