Hello from the Highlands

[Tifosi]

Hello comrades :cool: nice to be here, to be here nice :laugh: . I'm sure I will have a good time here:)

Well on politics my main goal for the future is to gain Scottish Independence, I guess there is a few people on here with those views?

[ls]

Welcome. :)

[thejambo1]

greetings from a fellow highlander.:)

[Q]

Welcome.

[Red.Punk.Warrior]

Hi comrade!

I fully support Welsh independance, Irish independance & Scottish independance,

and im english :)

[Q]

A classic marxist approach is for communists in the exploiter country/region to support self-determination up to and including independence of the exploited country/region, while communists in the exploited country/region defends unity. This with the background idea that while we as communists defend the greatest possible unity of the working class (we strive towards a World Republic in the end), we also acknowledge the national question that exists within capitalism (unfair geographic distribution of wealth, a nationalist consciousness among workers). In the end genuine unity can only exist on a voluntary basis.

What do you (both Red Clydeside and Red.Punk.Warrior) think about such an approach?

[Sam_b]

Welcome.


Well on politics my main goal for the future is to gain Scottish Independence

I'm interested in why this would be such an immediate demand of the Scottish working class. I would contend that this would fractionalis and split the existing Trade Union movement on nationalist grounds and ergo decrease the collective strike and bargaining power of workers in all sections of the UK. Would you also support an independent capitalist Scotland: the model that Salmond and the SNP envision?

I enjoy having these debates with you on the forum. Decent avatar, by the way - defo one of the best Soviet postage stamps :cool:

[Die Neue Zeit]

A classic marxist approach is for communists in the exploiter country/region to support self-determination up to and including independence of the exploited country/region, while communists in the exploited country/region defends unity. This with the background idea that while we as communists defend the greatest possible unity of the working class (we strive towards a World Republic in the end), we also acknowledge the national question that exists within capitalism (unfair geographic distribution of wealth, a nationalist consciousness among workers). In the end genuine unity can only exist on a voluntary basis.

What do you (both Red Clydeside and Red.Punk.Warrior) think about such an approach?

That would invalidate the political position of revolutionaries like James Connolly, though. :(




That's what I said about the USA, indeed. In spite of lower union membership and the lack of a labour party, the seeds of worker discontent are much stronger in the US than in the UK. I don't expect socialist revolution to start in the UK at all, despite the vocal arrogance of left groups that head international fan clubs from that country.

In fact, I'd like to see the breakup of that country and an EU encirclement of Euroskeptic England (after an independent Scotland decides wisely to still be part of the EU along with a 32-county Ireland).

Breakup of the country? I think that is a step in the wrong direction. As communists we should favor the greatest possible unity of the working class. The national question regarding Scotland is very much opportunistically inflated by capitalist politicians added on an unfair distribution of the wealth in the UK. But given the existing consciousness I think we should adopt the old formula of fighting for self-determination of the Scottish people on the exploiter side of the border (English) while fighting for unity on the exploited (Scottish) side of the border.

But this shouldn't be new to you ;)

Yeah, Lenin the Russian and Luxemburg the Polish citizen all over again! :D

My perspective is more or less based on two conditions: that the breakup doesn't lead to states outside the EU (perhaps besides stubborn England), and that there is no Balkanization going on (unlike the states of the former Yugoslavia in the EU).

The immediate re-entry into the EU by Scotland would signal that nationalist visions of socialism and even social democracy (per recent correspondence) are bankrupt.

[...]

I forgot to add a third condition, perhaps embedded in the Balkanization: we are facing the direct breakup of an imperialist power, as opposed to any ordinary nation-state.

[...]

We should have more discussion on political positions regarding the direct breakup of imperialist powers, when they are good and when they are bad for workers. Factors to take into consideration include: military aggression, extent of subordination to one's own finance capital, and cultural superstructure (secular Calvinism more prominent in the UK and US than elsewhere).

[Tifosi]

Thanks for the welcome comrades :) Q, how would this "world repbulic" work? You say it will brings workers together. Do you not think that nationality can also bring people together to help there fellow country men?

Sam_b, there is no way I would give my vote the queen love SNP. We all know capitlism is not all it's cracked up to be, Scotland will hopefully never open up to it. Sad thing is that a lot of people I talk are only voting SNP just to break the union and don't care about what else they stand for. Just on the news today the SNP look to be giving there support to NATO after years of attacking it, not good. It has to be the SSP for me.

[Q]

Q, how would this "world repbulic" work?
On that the opinions may differ, I for one support a workers' council-democracy, also known as a soviet-democracy.


You say it will brings workers together. Do you not think that nationality can also bring people together to help there fellow country men?
No. I think nationality is a big hurdle in bringing people together. A European Republic or even a Republic of the British Isles will not be possible on the basis of a nationalist movement. Nationalism is a historic product of capitalism, internationalism is the next stage in socialism.

[Tifosi]

No. I think nationality is a big hurdle in bringing people together. A European Republic or even a Republic of the British Isles will not be possible on the basis of a nationalist movement. Nationalism is a historic product of capitalism, internationalism is the next stage in socialism.

Ok, mabye it is but today it is a key factor in everyone's life and brings millions together for just more good than bad. Taking it away could have a backwards effect on people's lifes. It may be a product of capitalism but that is all in the past and I believe that it can be used as a powerful tool against capitalism:castro:

[Sam_b]

I don't have any pride for something I had absolutely no choice in, and find this whole 'national pride' idea to be hurtful to the socialist cause. We are an international movement.

I may have seen your point about supporting the SSP several years ago (I used to be a member) but now the party appears to be a small inward-looking clique with questionable politics. The split certainly didn't help, either. From your posts I think you regard an independent Scotland as one of the most important goals for the Scottish working class, and I disagree in the strongest terms.

[Rjevan]

Hi, welcome to the forum! :)