View Full Version : I think I'm a confused Marxist(Am I marxist?) Critiques and advice very welcome.
The Something
8th October 2009, 10:03
I tend to stay away from labels because I believe that ideas and people for that matter are ever changing, but I am also aware of the value of identifying your values to further critique them and further yourself personally.
I feel like I have been a Communist/Marxist for a bit now, but have been coming to the conclusion that maybe the State is not such a healthy thing. I was always drawn more to Marxism and less to say almost any for of anarchism because I thought it was a little too much of a lofty goal of a direct transition from capitalism to anarchism.
I feel also very lost in the debate between revolutionary politics.(interchangeable with insurrectionary yes?) Maybe it's rather a question of tactics and less about what an entire movement should be about. But if your movement is not entirely insurrectionary you are legitamizing capitalism by taking part in it's process?
I attended the G20 summit "resistg20" march and almost completely fell in love with the way the anarchists operated. It was like direct democracy in the streets, no leaders just a consensus by which way everyone decided to go, voting with your feet as it were. I also feel though without strong organization that, that is exactly where these sort of anti-capitalist tendacies will stay, in the streets led by 20 somethings. Not sustainable in the greater political debate as a whole.
I feel very lost and confused. I do not have very many fellow "politically" minded people in Buffalo (I'm sure many can relate) so I would apreciate any and all input.
Thanks in advance.
Spawn of Stalin
8th October 2009, 10:30
If you don't believe that anarchism will get anywhere without strong leadership then you should not be an anarchist, it's the exact reason I'm not an anarchist. When "choosing your side" probably the most important thing to keep in mind is what works, and siding with something that doesn't work in your mind makes absolutely no sense.
Rjevan
8th October 2009, 10:44
I feel like I have been a Communist/Marxist for a bit now, but have been coming to the conclusion that maybe the State is not such a healthy thing.
Well, you know that Communism is defined as a classless and stateless society? Only in a socialist society you have a state, not in a communist society but socialism is an essential step to achieve communism. So it's absolutely not exculsive to be a Marxist and to be against the state.
I feel also very lost in the debate between revolutionary politics.(interchangeable with insurrectionary yes?) Maybe it's rather a question of tactics and less about what an entire movement should be about. But if your movement is not entirely insurrectionary you are legitamizing capitalism by taking part in it's process?
I'm not sure if I understand your question correctly...
It is not just about being insurrectionary, Revolutionary Leftism means that we believe that real change, socialism and finally communism can only be achieved by a revolution of the proletariat, the working class which results in the complete overthrow of the bourgeois state and the capitalist society. In contrast to this there are the Reformists, like the social democrats. They do not reject the state as oppressive tool of the ruling class, like Marx does, they believe that they can change the system by working together with it, they want to reform our society by winning elections and introducing new law but become tools of the capitalists and the established parties this way, just take a look at UK Labour Party or German SPD or whatever social democrat party you like: Do they seem to care about workers? Do they seem to reject capitalism? No, not really. They have betrayed the working class and work hand in hand with the bourgeois. Therefore they are part of the system we oppose.
I hope this answers some of your questions.
The Something
8th October 2009, 11:07
Well, you know that Communism is defined as a classless and stateless society? Only in a socialist society you have a state, not in a communist society but socialism is an essential step to achieve communism. So it's absolutely not exculsive to be a Marxist and to be against the state.
I'm not sure if I understand your question correctly...
It is not just about being insurrectionary, Revolutionary Leftism means that we believe that real change, socialism and finally communism can only be achieved by a revolution of the proletariat, the working class which results in the complete overthrow of the bourgeois state and the capitalist society. In contrast to this there are the Reformists, like the social democrats. They do not reject the state as oppressive tool of the ruling class, like Marx does, they believe that they can change the system by working together with it, they want to reform our society by winning elections and introducing new law but become tools of the capitalists and the established parties this way, just take a look at UK Labour Party or German SPD or whatever social democrat party you like: Do they seem to care about workers? Do they seem to reject capitalism? No, not really. They have betrayed the working class and work hand in hand with the bourgeois. Therefore they are part of the system we oppose.
I hope this answers some of your questions.
I understand that communism is a classless and stateless and anarchism also espouses the same idea. The vehicle to getting to this end in communism is socialism a.k.a. the state. I'm just not sure that having "the state" is good and will lead back into capitalism.
The second part about revolutionary leftism(in my mind militant and revolutionary are one in the same) : What I mean is how can any organization get anything done without being somewhat reformist? Surely one cannot try to do everything outside of the system. You cannot just start some guerrilla army and take on the state, especially in the U.S.
I'm lost. I don't see how you can work outside the system and achieve meaningful ground short of violent revolution, which given the current conditions of not only the working class and the control of infromation via media outlets, is not possible.
spiltteeth
8th October 2009, 20:20
Well, you can fight for reforms -like healthcare - and other changes while still acknowledging that the problem is systemic, the very system is designed for injustice, therefore no amount of reform will bring about essential change, so that revolution is the ultimate goal.
Perhaps the conditions are not ripe now, but the american govt is spending billions in anticipation of civilian unrest. In my little town we had a small bridge, it was widened so that military vehicles could cross in case of "an emergency."
When the time is ripe, revolutionary idea's ought to be readably available to the working class population, and we ought to be ready too.
New Tet
8th October 2009, 21:41
I tend to stay away from labels because I believe that ideas and people for that matter are ever changing, but I am also aware of the value of identifying your values to further critique them and further yourself personally.
I feel like I have been a Communist/Marxist for a bit now, but have been coming to the conclusion that maybe the State is not such a healthy thing. I was always drawn more to Marxism and less to say almost any for of anarchism because I thought it was a little too much of a lofty goal of a direct transition from capitalism to anarchism.
I feel also very lost in the debate between revolutionary politics.(interchangeable with insurrectionary yes?) Maybe it's rather a question of tactics and less about what an entire movement should be about. But if your movement is not entirely insurrectionary you are legitamizing capitalism by taking part in it's process?
I attended the G20 summit "resistg20" march and almost completely fell in love with the way the anarchists operated. It was like direct democracy in the streets, no leaders just a consensus by which way everyone decided to go, voting with your feet as it were. I also feel though without strong organization that, that is exactly where these sort of anti-capitalist tendacies will stay, in the streets led by 20 somethings. Not sustainable in the greater political debate as a whole.
I feel very lost and confused. I do not have very many fellow "politically" minded people in Buffalo (I'm sure many can relate) so I would apreciate any and all input.
Thanks in advance.
You'd be surprised how many people near you are, in some very important ways, in agreement with you. Some, like you, are just waking up; others are fully awake and around since before you were born.
blake 3:17
9th October 2009, 00:13
I am a revolutionary marxist with anarchist sympathies. I often disgree with anarchist theory but do like the ways that some anarchists organize -- an orientation towards action/direct action, anti bureaucratic, a sense of humour and nerve. Some anarchists tend towards certain kinds of anti-intellectualism which I can find frustrating.
Our political praxis doesn't always need to conform some great theory.
I feel also very lost in the debate between revolutionary politics.(interchangeable with insurrectionary yes?) Maybe it's rather a question of tactics and less about what an entire movement should be about. But if your movement is not entirely insurrectionary you are legitamizing capitalism by taking part in it's process?
It's entirely possible. But full out revolution isn't on the cards in North America. Many of us engage in different types of action and it isn't always necessary that one tactic or set of tactics is sooooooo much better than an other. Most of the reforms we fight for are loosely within the limits of capital and the state. Social democrats tend to make a fetish of staying within the rules; many anarchists make a fetish of breaking the rules. I've worked in both types of groups along with folks with more nuanced views on these questions. One style or one set of tactics isn't going to owrk the best in every situation -- keep your principles and stand by them, but stay flexible.
Anarchia
9th October 2009, 04:39
Seeing as you're in Buffalo, perhaps you should get in touch with these people:
Buffalo Class Action - http://buffaloclassaction.com/
Buffalo Class Action is a revolutionary organization of Anarchist Communists in Buffalo, NY. We strive to further our ideas of social revolution while participating directly in the day to day struggles of the working class.
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