What can we learn from Somalia?

[AK]

Somalia has been in a state of war since 2006. There is no centralized working government. Various territories are controlled by greedy warlords. This raises the question: What were to happen if an opposing force inside a communist society were to try and take control of a section of land and establish a nation there? These people would be consumed by greed and a lust for power, seeing no proffessional military opposition the door to claim independence from this international society would be wide open.

[Kukulofori]

We can learn why anarcho-capitalism is shit.

We can also learn that a revolution is kind of worthless if the average person isn't willing to fight for it.

[AK]

It wouldn't be the average person, it would be someone who saw the system at the time as vulnerable to being taken over by his/her forces and establishing a nation from conquered sections of the world.

[Outinleftfield]

What would happen? People would notice, people would be angry, and people would go and stop it.

[AK]

What If the system they were offered was somehow better?

[Stranger Than Paradise]

What If the system they were offered was somehow better?

After Communism has been established, humanity's true nature of co-operation would be restored. I really don't see this as a possibility.

[The Douche]

What If the system they were offered was somehow better?

You think capitalism is better than communism?

[AK]

You think capitalism is better than communism?
Hell no, ok, say it wasn't a better system, maybe some other Hitler-like figure decided to try out some other far-right system out of greed for power as there is no authority/state governing that land, legally (and the term would not exist) it would be terra nullius.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Hell no, ok, say it wasn't a better system, maybe some other Hitler-like figure decided to try out some other far-right system out of greed for power as there is no authority/state governing that land, legally (and the term would not exist) it would be terra nullius.

The people would govern the land, therefore their authority, collectively would not allow it to happen.

[bailey_187]

Hell no, ok, say it wasn't a better system, maybe some other Hitler-like figure decided to try out some other far-right system out of greed for power as there is no authority/state governing that land, legally (and the term would not exist) it would be terra nullius.

Even if a Hitler like figure did emerge, if the conditions dont make people want to follow him, he/she will fail.

Hitler's rise wasnt due to his amazing speaking skills or whatever, it was due to the Great Depression. Hence why he had no support when he tried the Munich Putch in 1923.

[Ovi]

I don't know what the others think, but I believe an organized decentralized military force will be crucial in anarchy, just to prevent such things from happening. Otherwise new states would appear shortly.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

I don't know what the others think, but I believe an organized decentralized military force will be crucial in anarchy, just to prevent such things from happening. Otherwise new states would appear shortly.

What do you mean by military force? What stops the military force having power over our lives?

[Искра]

What do you mean by military force? What stops the military force having power over our lives?
Nothing.

Military force can't be nothing more that workers organised to defend their community.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Nothing.

Military force can't be nothing more that workers organised to defend their community.

Yeah thats what I believe in but I was just wanting Ovi to clarify.

[Ovi]

Yeah thats what I believe in but I was just wanting Ovi to clarify.
I'll second Jurko on that. Each community can have its own soldiers, which are nothing more but individuals trained to defend themselves and the others.

[Tatarin]

Well, one thing is that the imperialists hasn't minded Somalia for a good 17 years. Ethiopia went in not long ago, but even they withdrew. Is there even a drop of imperialism of any kind in Somalia today? Or have they left it because it lacks useful resources?

[Kukulofori]

Modern imperialism has to do with natural resources and capital. If you can just buy those things there's no reason to go in with a military.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

I'll second Jurko on that. Each community can have its own soldiers, which are nothing more but individuals trained to defend themselves and the others.

Yes well what you are advocating I am sure almost all Anarchists also advocate. I certainly do.

[robbo203]

Hell no, ok, say it wasn't a better system, maybe some other Hitler-like figure decided to try out some other far-right system out of greed for power as there is no authority/state governing that land, legally (and the term would not exist) it would be terra nullius.

Capitalism continues essentially because the mass of the population acquiese in it in one way of another. A Hitler-like figure would be a mere laughing stock unless there was some substantial body of support for such a figure, Power is not something that exists out there that you can "grab"in that sense; it is a social relationship. This is what the "Great Man" theory (Carlyle) overlooks.

Communism (socialism) presupposes mass understanding and support on the part of the great majority. That being so, the scope for some Far right Hitler like figure emerging will shrink in proportion as the global movement for communism grows, fundamentally altering the entire social climate in the process and strengthening democratic values

It is also for this reason that the possibility of a violent counter-revolution will diminish the nearer we approach communism. By the time communism is imminent it will be far too late for the ruling class to do anything about it even if they had the will to do it. BY then there will be many more capitalists like Engels who will be siding with the workers in the cause of communism

[Ovi]

Yes well what you are advocating I am sure almost all Anarchists also advocate. I certainly do.
There are pacifists who want to see the end of guns/soldiers. I do want peace, but the only way we can achieve this is by being able to defend ourselves.

[Misanthrope]

That corporate imperialism is barbaric.