the Heart of Darkness

[Dirty Commie]

The book, which I am trying to read, inspire the greatest Vietnam war movie ever, Apocalypse Now.
I saw it a few hours ago...amazing.
No words can describe it.
I don't think I was worthy to see it.

[Pete]

"No words can describe it."

I am sure Conrad could describe it ad nauseum ;)

I read this for school, which takes away some of the goodness of the book. I hope you enjoy reading it though. Pay attention to the names of characters. I have a theory about it. When you are done tell me about them ;)

[Rastafari]

Book is boring, trust me. Greatest vietnam war movie of all time is "Full Metal Jacket"

I do think he had a double meaning in "The Horror! The Horror!" as describing his woman. Think about it

[canikickit]

The film was far superior to Kubrick's over-rated trash.
I shall read the book.

[Dirty Commie]

Full Metal Jacket is the second greatest, the first half hour is the best thirty minutes of film ever.


So far, the journey upriver is onto the heart of darkness, you know, into obscurity, emptiness.

[Fever]

Yeah, heart of darkness is sooo hard to read!

[Son of Scargill]

I quite enjoyed it,but it can be a tedious read.

[RedFW]

CrazyPete, I would be interested in hearing your theory about the characters in the book. I can really only remember three characters being named: Kurtz, Marlow and Fresleven. I know from reading the textual notes in my edition that Fresleven was based on someone Conrad knew, recorded in his journal.

[Pete]

And there are 3 statoins. And if I dont finish this in the next two days IM...I must run to class

[RedFW]

I don't follow how this is connected to their names, and it appears you don't have much time to go into it at the moment, but I would like to hear it when you have more time.:)

I can see that there could be quite a lot of interpretation regarding the stations and where on the river they are situated. I know Marlow refers to the river as an African styx, which has connotations of its own, but you will have to explain how the names are connected to the stations because I am not making that connection. I could see the the stations in relation the characters, perhaps, but not their names.

[IHP]

"Full metal jacket" the movie was so cool. Joker is a 'kin classic. Or how about "What's your major malfunction numbnuts!?"

Love it.

--IHP

[Pete]

I read this book with a Marxist mind set, because that is what I am. Three names, three stations, three frames of story, three three three. It is the magical number 1+2=3, the first child is the third member of a family, their are three trimesters of three months each in a pregnancy, ect. It is a universal.

A bit of background on Conrad. His family was exiled for being 'radicals' from Poland, and he moved to France and England and other parts of Europe during his life. He also spend some time sailing, and even went into the Congo, on which this book is based.

He only names three people. Not even the narriator is named. YOu have Marlow, Kurtz, and the Swedish Capitan. He only remembers these names. So, then, what does this signify? He is alone, as he spends minimal time with Kurtz and the Capitan, and second it parallels the 'three' idea.

The three idea links to the thesis/antithesis/synthesis progress of history. Look at the characters. The Capitan is a European who doesn't really care to much about the trade past it gives him his job; Kurtz is a European who is obsessed with ivory and controlling things, keeping secrets, and this is seen as corrupt. Marlow is a product of these two ideas. He sees the ivory and tastes the corruption, but still holds that quality of 'this is only a job.' He is deeply changed by Kurtz, and takes on some of Kurtz's qualities. (He lies to the intended at the end).

Kurtz is portraying, through the character, this kind of change. And I personally believe the Heart of Darkness is Europe, not Africa, because it is the unrestrained European (kurtz) who distrupts the Africans in his drive for profits. This lack of restraint contrasts the restrained Capitan, and this mixture creates the man that is Marlow. Defiant to authority figures, disturbingly deep, and very very human.

[Son of Scargill]

Very interesting.I'd like to know your views on the character of the mad russian sailor.His manic intensity brightened up the book for me for some reason,but up until now I'd never thought about it too deeply.Or was that just the intention?A sideshow for the masses.



(Edited by Son of Scargill at 8:20 am on May 30, 2003)

[Pete]

He is the isolationist. He has lived by himself after fleeing Russia because he did not want to be a priest basically. Aswell the Congo shows a lack of restraint, and all of his emotions that he has held back for so long hit him and he snaps. He is European and he is with Kurtz, both are arguably insane. The European mind is filled with darkness. Europe is the heart of darkness.

I need to re-read the novel, I have only read it and studied it once. But remember never take my word for these things, most of my class heavily disagreed with my Marxist spin that I put on everything.

Oh ya, he was also a form of comic relief.

(Edited by CrazyPete at 7:21 am on May 30, 2003)

[Son of Scargill]

I rushed through it when I read it(it was a borrowed book,I'd been slack and she needed it back).So,consequently this thread is a sort of refresher for me.
The main thrust of your POV,that the heart of darkness is europe seems quite valid to me.Although I may counter that in the story,africa has an open darkness to it's soul also.A harsh,brutal existence at the time(and still is),but the european darkness is far more dangerous because of the veneer of civilized society.Separated from the reality of the vicious system that enables it's genteel lifestyle.Marlows auntie?,Kurtz's intended and maybe the missionaries being the examples.It believes itself to be somehow purer in soul,enlightened,yet bringing unseen(to most europeans)misery with its exploitation of "The Dark Continent".The book asks the question"which is worse?The darkness that knows it is darkness,or the darkness that thinks it is light."
Or am I being too simplistic?
Anyway,your"marxist spin"has made me think a bit deeper about this book,so it can't be a bad thing.

Peacenicked once posted a link to a review(critique?) of"The Merchant of Venice"that described it as a veiled attack on english adventure capitalism of Shakespeares time that I found very interesting.Most people would probably say it was a load of cobblers,but it also made me look at shakespeare differently,and more importantly,take an interest.


(Edited by Son of Scargill at 4:45 pm on May 30, 2003)

[Pete]

No that isn't simplistic at all. I based my entire essay on it. My teacher disagreed with my point and gave me a 77% (mostly because I did back my self up, but if I argued Africa was the HoD and did less work I would have scored a mid 80.)

[RedFW]

That is a very interesting theory of the characters. I thought when I read your original post that their actual names were of significance.

I think the reading of 'thesis/antithesis/synthesis progress of history' in relation to Fresleven, Marlow and Kurtz works brilliantly because Kurtz "could have been a splendid leader of an extreme party" and though his primary motives were economic he had great ideas for 'progress'.

We discussed the issue of where to situate the heart of darkness in one of my seminars, and someone pointed out that the title of the novella is, in fact, Heart of Darkness, which seems to suggest there may or may not be a heart of darkness that is 'the' heart of darkness but that hearts of darkness, for varying reasons, can be situated in different places, different people.

I agree that if I were to choose to locate it in one place it would not be Africa. Marlowe says of London, when he begins his narration, 'And this also...has been one of the darkest places of the earth'. And I think when he is talking of Brussles he says it makes him think of 'a whited sepulchre' which connotes death and darkness but shrouded or enveloped in white, which is interesting when juxtaposed with what Marlow says of Kurtz's ability to talk: '...the gift of expression, the bewildering, the illuminating, the most exalted and the most contemptible, the pulsating stream of light, or the deceitful flow from the heart of an impenetrable darkness', which I took as meaning there was the illusion of light, illumination and 'progress' in the talk of Kurtz, the European press and different branches of the 'civilising mission' but that the light, like the whited sepulchre, had, at its centre or heart, darkness, human suffering and a mission less altruistic than what Europe was purporting to be undertaking.

(Edited by RedFW at 11:05 am on June 2, 2003)

[Pete]

Another example of a heart of darkness is the picture of the Intended carrying the lamp. Now if you want symbolizism dive into that picture. I will find the passage in my copy and explain what I mean.

[RedFW]

I don't have my copy to hand, as I did earlier (I am too lazy to go and dig it out of my bag, which is where I put it after I quoted from it the last time), but from what I remember of the picture (wasn't it painted by Kurtz?) it was of a woman blindfolded coming out of darkness, with the lamp, as you said. What made you decide it was of his 'Intended'? That is a point I may have missed, which would make me want to read that part of the book and the ending much more closely if so because that could make quite a big difference to my reading of it.

(Edited by RedFW at 4:58 pm on June 2, 2003)