British Army braced for Imminent Attack in northern Ireland

[Mindtoaster]

The security forces have been placed on heightened alert after receiving intelligence of a dissident republican plot to attack a Northern Ireland Army base, the Belfast Telegraph has learned.

Security chiefs are concerned that a mortar attack on one of the bases is imminent and have placed all Army personnel on high alert.

It is understood military personnel were briefed about the developments over the weekend. An MoD source told the Belfast Telegraph: “We have all been placed on a high state of alert and have been warned that a mortar attack on any one of the barracks is imminent.”

The MoD declined to discuss the latest threat saying that matters of security in Northern Ireland are a matter for the PSNI. He added: “For obvious reasons we do not discuss operational security.”

The PSNI said: “We do not comment on specific intelligence matters and no inference should be drawn from this.”

The security forces have been on heightened alert since the March murders of two soldiers at Massereene Army barracks in Antrim and PSNI Constable Stephen Carroll in Craigavon.

The dissident republican terror threat remains “severe” and all three dissident terror groups — the Real IRA, Continuity IRA and Oglaigh na hEireann — have intensified their activities in recent weeks.

Oglaigh na hEireann was behind a 600lb bomb attached to a command wire stretching into the Republic which was defused by the Army in south Armagh last month. Security sources said the bomb was one of the most sophisticated to have been assembled by any of the dissident terror groups in recent years.

It is understood they were investigating whether a former veteran Provisional IRA bomb-maker from Belfast had defected to one of the dissident organisations and was helping to improve its bomb-making capability.

The Continuity IRA is believed to be behind two nights of violence on the streets of Lurgan last month when hijacked burning vehicles blocked the Dublin-Belfast rail line. The disturbances followed the jailing of three Continuity IRA men for 15 years in connection with a mortar bomb plot aimed at killing police officers.

In Londonderry the Real IRA left bombs at the homes of relatives of a Catholic PSNI officer. Catholic recruits to the police remain among the prime targets of dissident terror groups. A bomb exploded outside the home of the policeman's parents in the Shantallow area of the city. The dissident terror group then left a second device outside the same PSNI officer's sister's home in the Kylemore Park area of Derry.

No one was injured in the Shantallow blast but a car was damaged. Several families were forced to flee their homes close to the second house targeted in Kylemore Park.

The Real IRA has also been responsible for at least six so-called ‘punishment’ shootings in Derry over the last few months.

In August the Real IRA took over the south Armagh village of Meigh, where armed men wearing masks set up a roadblock to stop traffic. During the incident a PSNI mobile patrol spotted the Real IRA unit but withdrew from the village fearing that their presence would provoke a gun battle.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/army-braced-for-imminent-attack-in-northern-ireland-14523083.html#ixzz0TCvquaVy

[Uncle Ho]

So when, exactly, will the British finally let go of their last imperial colony?

Their leaders must truly be sick, desperately longing for the days when they could rape and murder the whole earth with impunity. Hopefully this time the IRA can put aside their petty squabbles and unite into one front.

[MaoTseHelen]

Good - fuck em.

[Philosophical Materialist]

So when, exactly, will the British finally let go of their last imperial colony?

Their leaders must truly be sick, desperately longing for the days when they could rape and murder the whole earth with impunity. Hopefully this time the IRA can put aside their petty squabbles and unite into one front.

It is their last formal colony of any significance, British imperialism takes on subtler but as affective approaches elsewhere, especially in regards to British corporate interests in Africa's mineral wealth.

Continuance of British occupation of a third of Ireland is still important for British imperialist and nationalist prestige, given that Ireland (and the 6-county rump state) was the only colony that it tried (unsuccessfully) to integrate into metropolitan Britain.

During the Twentieth Century, British occupation and dominance over Ireland was seen as essential to its foreign policy, keeping perceived foreign (French, German, Soviet) threats at bay.

When the Eastern Bloc collapsed, US capital became more interested in wrestling with British capital interests in Ireland as it was no longer contented to turn a blind-eye to what was going on the six counties. It is in this context that you see Ireland becoming dominated by US capital under the so-called Celtic Tiger economy.

British occupation of the North was allowed to continue as long as it became suitably open to investment by US capital. It should also be noted that the political class of the 26-county state became unwilling to challenge British hegemony in the North favouring nationalist collaboration in the North as a junior partner to Unionist hegemony, but with certain guarantees of civil rights in the bourgeois-democratic sense.

Now that the bubble burst, and debt-fuelled fictitious capital that fuelled the Tiger's boom has left the island, I think that the Irish will give the national question a greater attention as self-determination of Ireland is linked to its future social prosperity. When industry north and south are in the hands of the Irish people only then can Ireland recover economically and the Irish gain their civil rights. Even with the military might of the British state, Britain cannot sustain itself in Ireland when faced with significant opposition both sides of the border.

[Dóchas]

i havent heard anything about this in the republic i duno why? :confused:

anyway its good that some havent given up the fight

[Andropov]

Cant see anything really coming from this. The Contos are largely militarily inept. The Reals are riddled with touts. So then that just leaves Oglaigh Na h'eireann who have been quite active for the past few months. If there is another attack on an army barracks it will be just for propaganda purposes, I doubt there would be any major strategic damage.

[MaoTseHelen]

Cant see anything really coming from this. The Contos are largely militarily inept. The Reals are riddled with touts. So then that just leaves Oglaigh Na h'eireann who have been quite active for the past few months. If there is another attack on an army barracks it will be just for propaganda purposes, I doubt there would be any major strategic damage.
At this point, anything that shows the disenfranchised any of the 3 can still pull their weight if they just had numbers would be good for them - the more people in the North fall under the poverty line, the more their numbers are going to swell, I feel.

[LeninBalls]

Cant see anything really coming from this. The Contos are largely militarily inept. The Reals are riddled with touts. So then that just leaves Oglaigh Na h'eireann who have been quite active for the past few months. If there is another attack on an army barracks it will be just for propaganda purposes, I doubt there would be any major strategic damage.

Like I said in Republican Socialists, I don't see what's stopping the CIRA and RIRA from joining with each other. Same goals, split from the same organization, same beliefs, rougly the same level of activism and from what I've read no feuds between them so far. I don't think a CIRA+RIRA merger would be anything spectacular, but it would be progress.

[Mindtoaster]

Cant see anything really coming from this. The Contos are largely militarily inept. The Reals are riddled with touts. So then that just leaves Oglaigh Na h'eireann who have been quite active for the past few months. If there is another attack on an army barracks it will be just for propaganda purposes, I doubt there would be any major strategic damage.

Has the 600-lb bomb they defused near the border been claimed by any group yet?

[Andropov]

Like I said in Republican Socialists, I don't see what's stopping the CIRA and RIRA from joining with each other. Same goals, split from the same organization, same beliefs, rougly the same level of activism and from what I've read no feuds between them so far. I don't think a CIRA+RIRA merger would be anything spectacular, but it would be progress.
I think there are some serious problems within the Contos.
Rumours are that the Fermanagh, Armagh and Monaghan Brigades of the CIRA are talking of splitting with the leadership and joining the Reals.
These are easily the most active and professional units out of the CIRA, so would be a massive blow for them.

[Andropov]

Has the 600-lb bomb they defused near the border been claimed by any group yet?
Im pretty sure Oglaigh na h'Eireann claimed that one.
They seem to have some resources and expertise behind them.

[Tifosi]

Like I said in Republican Socialists, I don't see what's stopping the CIRA and RIRA from joining with each other. Same goals, split from the same organization, same beliefs, rougly the same level of activism and from what I've read no feuds between them so far. I don't think a CIRA+RIRA merger would be anything spectacular, but it would be progress.

Look at it this way, if they are in smaller groups like they are now it must be harder for the Brits to infiltrate them and get a hold of members. Being in a bigger group may make them an easyer target.

[Uncle Ho]

I think there are some serious problems within the Contos.
Rumours are that the Fermanagh, Armagh and Monaghan Brigades of the CIRA are talking of splitting with the leadership and joining the Reals.
These are easily the most active and professional units out of the CIRA, so would be a massive blow for them.

I've been hearing some rumors that the Provos have been quietly re-arming, as well.

They were always the most competent of the post Collins IRAs.

[Andropov]

I've been hearing some rumors that the Provos have been quietly re-arming, as well.
TBH that sounds like bollocks.
Its a definite possibility that splinters of the provos are arming but the organisation as a whole is hamstrung by the reformist leadership in PSF who have clearly made their bed in Stormont.
Oglaigh na h'Eireann is actually disenfranchised provos.

[Irish commie]

the way is not for the sectarian violence to continue RIRA and CIRA make portestants feel threatened and play in to the hands of te british and the unionists. the only way forward is a united workers struggle and persuading protestants proleteriats that they can gain something eg. socialism from a united ireland when the truth is the republic is corrupt, righwing and bankrupt

[MaoTseHelen]

the way is not for the sectarian violence to continue RIRA and CIRA make portestants feel threatened and play in to the hands of te british and the unionists. the only way forward is a united workers struggle and persuading protestants proleteriats that they can gain something eg. socialism from a united ireland when the truth is the republic is corrupt, righwing and bankrupt

That was attempted in the 60's and it failed fairly massively, no? I say statehood first, workers unity in the aftermath. I don't see how it'd work any other way in Ireland.

[PRC-UTE]

Im pretty sure Oglaigh na h'Eireann claimed that one.
They seem to have some resources and expertise behind them.

aye, that was Oglaigh na hEireann. a very shady group, imo. heard they'd formed around the group loyal to McKevitt, but a lot of their actions are questionable. not just that bomb they abandoned, but brutal punishment attacks against the brother of the man they couldn't find :confused:

[Uncle Ho]

TBH that sounds like bollocks.
Its a definite possibility that splinters of the provos are arming but the organisation as a whole is hamstrung by the reformist leadership in PSF who have clearly made their bed in Stormont.
Oglaigh na h'Eireann is actually disenfranchised provos.

You seem knowledgeable on this topic.

Is the splintering of the IRA, in your opinion, the result of British meddling, or simply a lack of any Michael Collins-like figures?

It seems to me they could accomplish far more together than apart.

[PRC-UTE]

You seem knowledgeable on this topic.

Is the splintering of the IRA, in your opinion, the result of British meddling, or simply a lack of any Michael Collins-like figures?

It seems to me they could accomplish far more together than apart.

The reasons for splits are varied...the splits that created the various groups happened at different times, places and for different reasons. Uniting them would be fairly challenging.

the CIRA split off in 1986, but it was over the issue of taking seats in the Irish parliament, the Dáil. that group is mostly southern based.

Then the group that became the RIRA split later due to the ceasefire and negotiations with the British. they're mostly northerners. They're more capable of carrying out operations successfully than are the CIRA.

The reason they didn't merge then in the late nineties after the Reals split had mostly to do with egos in the leadership of RSF/CIRA that didn't want to share leadership positions with the personnel leading the RIRA. Also, the RIRA are more pragmatic, yet the Continuity IRA try to preserve their version of "traditional" republicanism, so it's hard to mix them.

On the political side of things, there is a unity initiative going on between the IRSP, RNU, 32csm, and some independent republicans called the Irish Republican Forum for Unity (IRFU). That probablky has more of a chance than a military pact would.

but as Red Rev mentioned above, there are rumours that some units of the CIRA will be defecting to the RIRA.

[Andropov]

You seem knowledgeable on this topic.

Is the splintering of the IRA, in your opinion, the result of British meddling, or simply a lack of any Michael Collins-like figures?

It seems to me they could accomplish far more together than apart.
What Prc-Ute said. :)

[Andropov]

The reasons for splits are varied...the splits that created the various groups happened at different times, places and for different reasons. Uniting them would be fairly challenging.

the CIRA split off in 1986, but it was over the issue of taking seats in the Irish parliament, the Dáil. that group is mostly southern based.

Then the group that became the RIRA split later due to the ceasefire and negotiations with the British. they're mostly northerners. They're more capable of carrying out operations successfully than are the CIRA.

The reason they didn't merge then in the late nineties after the Reals split had mostly to do with egos in the leadership of RSF/CIRA that didn't want to share leadership positions with the personnel leading the RIRA. Also, the RIRA are more pragmatic, yet the Continuity IRA try to preserve their version of "traditional" republicanism, so it's hard to mix them.

On the political side of things, there is a unity initiative going on between the IRSP, RNU, 32csm, and some independent republicans called the Irish Republican Forum for Unity (IRFU). That probablky has more of a chance than a military pact would.

but as Red Rev mentioned above, there are rumours that some units of the CIRA will be defecting to the RIRA.
Correct me if im wrong but do Oglaigh na h'Eireann not have links with RNU?

[PRC-UTE]

Correct me if im wrong but do Oglaigh na h'Eireann not have links with RNU?

yeah, that's what I'm hearing from members of the 32csm.

[IrishWorker]

yeah, that's what I'm hearing from members of the 32csm.
Loose talk lads.

[Andropov]

Some of those comments should probably be deleted since it is idle speculation.

[MaoTseHelen]

Anyone wanna key me into what RNU is? Here or PM's fine.

[Redmau5]

but brutal punishment attacks against the brother of the man they couldn't find :confused:

To be fair, I've heard his brother is an absolute scumbag as well.

[RedScare]

The violence leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Surely in the 9/11 era, with drastically changed perceptions of terrorism is, any serious attacks would de-legitimize the Irish republican movement, and lose what little community support they have left.

[Crux]

So when, exactly, will the British finally let go of their last imperial colony?

Their leaders must truly be sick, desperately longing for the days when they could rape and murder the whole earth with impunity. Hopefully this time the IRA can put aside their petty squabbles and unite into one front.
It's not that simple though. The brittish do not want to keep Northern Ireland, but there's the question of the 3 million something protestants living there. They would be quite unwilling, as polls have shown, to be forcibly merged into a capitalist ireland. Indeed that would be no solution but only further strengthen the problem. What is needed is workingclass unity, something which the armed republican struggle has been unable to achieve. Now I am not disputing the right to self-defense against the unionists and the british military, but this must be on a cross-community workingclass basis. As Connolly said:

"If you remove the English army tomorrow and hoist the Green Flag over Dublin Castle, unless you set about the organisation of the socialist republic your efforts would be in vain. England would still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through the whole army of commercial-industrial institutions she has planted in the country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs. England would rule you to your ruin."

[MaoTseHelen]

The violence leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Surely in the 9/11 era, with drastically changed perceptions of terrorism is, any serious attacks would de-legitimize the Irish republican movement, and lose what little community support they have left.
Terrorism is just a word.

[Hoggy_RS]

Surely a reason for the CIRA & the rira not joining together would be that RSF/CIRA see themselves as being the whole republican movement and hence refuse to co-operate with other groups.

These groups are going no where and have achieved nothing worthwhile in their exsistence imo.

[Dr Mindbender]

The violence leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Surely in the 9/11 era, with drastically changed perceptions of terrorism is, any serious attacks would de-legitimize the Irish republican movement, and lose what little community support they have left.

I think if anything, Sinn Fein have lost support from nationalists for turning their back on the armed struggle and jumping on the GFA gravy train.

[MaoTseHelen]

I think if anything, Sinn Fein have lost support from nationalists for turning their back on the armed struggle and jumping on the GFA gravy train.
A thousand times this.

[Crux]

Well I believe they lost support because they sold out, not because they left the armed struggle. There's a difference.

[Dr Mindbender]

Well I believe they lost support because they sold out, not because they left the armed struggle. There's a difference.

I think in the nationalist community there lies a nostalgia for the old days when the PIRA were in full operational capacity.

[Philosophical Materialist]

They would be quite unwilling, as polls have shown, to be forcibly merged into a capitalist ireland. Indeed that would be no solution but only further strengthen the problem. What is needed is workingclass unity, something which the armed republican struggle has been unable to achieve.

Forcibly merged? What about the millions of Irish who are forcibly incorporated into the jurisdiction of an imperialist power via a colonial government in the north?

Partition was used by the British government to divide the Irish working class and ensure the dominance of a local pro-British oligarchy in the six counties.

Armed struggle nationalism has made its mistakes, but it also had some positive outcomes also. In the 1950s and 1960s, catholic Irish in N. Ireland demanded the civil rights accorded to British citizens in Great Britain but were instead given internment without trial, shoot-to-kill, pogroms, gerrymandering and all the rest. Nationalists had to resort to armed struggle because the British government would not listen and would not confront the unionist bourgeois elite in N. Ireland.

Without armed struggle, British imperialism would not have had any incentive to hold talks with Irish republicans and nationalists. Some of the nastier aspects of British occupation have lessened as a result, but they have not been removed completely.

It must also be pointed out that the supposed benefits of the union are being removed for the protestant working class. Preferential treatment for protestant unionists in employment, the judiciary and housing have been lessened (although not eliminated, esp. housing being a big problem), and this institutional discrimination allowed the presence of a labour aristocracy - one which has been undermined due to downward pressures on wages and the opening up of all-Ireland to US capital. Recent opinion polls have shown the protestant Irish to be far more agnostic about the continuation of the union.

I think the potential for Irish working class unity is greater than it was 20 or 30 years ago. Protestant and catholic Irish realise that they're being screwed over by the same system of international capitalism. This doesn't make it less important to remove the British occupation however, as the British state has never played a progressive role in Ireland (in fact - a deeply reactionary one).

[Andropov]

It's not that simple though. The brittish do not want to keep Northern Ireland,
Of course they do.
Do you think they are their out of their imperial genorosity?
Just one of those cliched arguements bandied about by imeprialist apologists.

but there's the question of the 3 million something protestants living there.
Ehh no theres not?

They would be quite unwilling, as polls have shown, to be forcibly merged into a capitalist ireland.
Indeed they would.

Indeed that would be no solution but only further strengthen the problem
You do realise that Protestants have lived in the Free State for a century now with nearly zero sectarianism in the Free State.
Now whay could that be, dont shoot me down here but maybe its that Empires create artificial divisions between the working class to help maintain the status quo.
As in Imperialism helps maintain and foster sectarianism as it helps give the Empire a nice reactionary pool of zealots to draw on.

What is needed is workingclass unity, something which the armed republican struggle has been unable to achieve.
True, but something Socialists of all persuasions have also failed to achieve.

Now I am not disputing the right to self-defense against the unionists and the british military, but this must be on a cross-community workingclass basis. As Connolly said:
Ohh dear, ohh dear and then you use a Connolly quote after that.
You comrade are what he referred to as Gas and Water socialists.

[Crux]

Of course they do.
Do you think they are their out of their imperial genorosity?
Just one of those cliched arguements bandied about by imeprialist apologists.
Unlike your oh so non cliche retort.
Is it imperialist to recognize that Northern Ireland, today, would likely be merged into the republic without too much protest from brittain (I would like to note that I and the organization I represent are technically opposed to Great Brittain as such) if there was a majority support for this in the NI? The question, however, is how do you build such support. Furthermore a united Ireland is not,and should not be a goal in itself, only a means to an end. Even a socialist Ireland would find itself quickly isolated if the revolution was not carried out on a international level.

[Andropov]

Unlike your oh so non cliche retort.
Is it imperialist to recognize that Northern Ireland, today, would likely be merged into the republic without too much protest from brittain
Absolute nonsense.
If that were the case MI5 wouldnt be investing millions in Hollywood.

(I would like to note that I and the organization I represent are technically opposed to Great Brittain as such)
How noble.

if there was a majority support for this in the NI?
So you recognise partitioning?
Do feel free to wheel out a Connolly quote supporting partitioning?
It troubles me to see a socialist recognise that sectarian statelet.
Do you want to know what Connolly described the future sectarian statelet as when the theory was in circulation?

The question, however, is how do you build such support.
Across Ireland of course, because im sure as a Socialist your not advocating partitioning?

Furthermore a united Ireland is not,and should not be a goal in itself, only a means to an end.
Are you suggesting I suggested differently?

Even a socialist Ireland would find itself quickly isolated if the revolution was not carried out on a international level.
So now im an isolationist because I oppose imperialism?
Or am I just taking this up the wrong way?

[Crux]

I think you are, comrade. I don't in any way shape or form support brittish imperialism or partition. The question is rather how to get from point a to point b. As for MI5 interest in Northern Ireland I would wager that the presence of armed groups has something to do with that.

[Andropov]

I think you are, comrade.
Prove it.

I don't in any way shape or form support brittish imperialism or partition.
But you said that there must be a vote in the 6 counties to determine if they will rid themselves of Imperialism?
That means you recognise the sectarian statelet and thus inadvertantly support imperialism.

The question is rather how to get from point a to point b.
Ground breaking.

As for MI5 interest in Northern Ireland I would wager that the presence of armed groups has something to do with that.
Ohh dear.
It was a multi million dollar intelligence gathering complex to be used for all the Empire, not just Ireland.
Britain clearly has interests within Ireland, its why they are here, Empires generally look after their own interests but maybe I just have an unhealthy distrust of Empires.

[Crux]

Prove it.
Taking this up the wrong way, comrade.


But you said that there must be a vote in the 6 counties to determine if they will rid themselves of Imperialism?
That means you recognise the sectarian statelet and thus inadvertantly support imperialism.
I recognize that it exists, yes. Rather there must be a mass workingclass support, as I said. Hence the vote.



Ohh dear.
It was a multi million dollar intelligence gathering complex to be used for all the Empire, not just Ireland.
Britain clearly has interests within Ireland, its why they are here, Empires generally look after their own interests but maybe I just have an unhealthy distrust of Empires.
Well, british imperialism largely continue by other means today. In the case of Northern Ireland, it has to do with the protestant population there. And see now we are back to my original point.

[Andropov]

Taking this up the wrong way, comrade.
No im not.
You made a claim, so the least you could do is substantiate it.

I recognize that it exists, yes. Rather there must be a mass workingclass support, as I said. Hence the vote.
A vote in Ireland or in the sectarian statelet?

Well, british imperialism largely continue by other means today. In the case of Northern Ireland, it has to do with the protestant population there.
Ehh no it doesnt.
Thats just imperial hogwash that they spew out.
They have military and strategic interests in Ireland that they continue to utilise.
The Empire is not here for anyone elses good, they are here for their own strategic interests.

And see now we are back to my original point.
What even is your original point?

[ls]

(I would like to note that I and the organization I represent are technically opposed to Great Brittain as such)

I was trying to work out in what context, but it simply falls beyond me. Why exactly would you be opposed to a landmass?

Do you mean you/CWI support something like Scottish/Welsh/Cornish independent republics and Irish reunification?

[MaoTseHelen]

Do you mean you/CWI support something like Scottish/Welsh/Cornish independent republics and Irish reunification?

Way I read it sounded like they were opposed to the UK for supporting popular referendum on independence. :confused:

[ls]

Way I read it sounded like they were opposed to the UK for supporting popular referendum on independence. :confused:

The UK does not advocate independence for anywhere. It advocates keeping a tight union, NI is a strong part of that.


Is it imperialist to recognize that Northern Ireland, today, would likely be merged into the republic without too much protest from brittain

Is complete nonsense like RR said, the UK gov wants to keep a complete union and that includes every part, although NI is an exceptionally important piece of the jigsaw.

[Uncle Ho]

Britian supports a referendum only because it knows it will win, being as the political boundaries of Northern Ireland were specifically set up to ensure Protestant domination.

Any election conducted there is a sham for this reason.

[Crux]

I was trying to work out in what context, but it simply falls beyond me. Why exactly would you be opposed to a landmass?

Do you mean you/CWI support something like Scottish/Welsh/Cornish independent republics and Irish reunification?
Yes. Our program is clearly in favor of irish, welsh and scottish independence, and a free and voluntary federation of socialist states in the entire of europe. If independence for cornwall was a real issue we would include that too. As you may know, we are a part of Solidairty, a pro-independence, socialist party in scotland.

[Crux]

Britian supports a referendum only because it knows it will win, being as the political boundaries of Northern Ireland were specifically set up to ensure Protestant domination.

Any election conducted there is a sham for this reason.
Well, then the "knows it will win" part is the problem. You have to win the workingclass in northern ireland, regardless of what community they belong to, to the socialist cause. The reunification of ireland is not possible on a capitalist basis. I hope this clears up where I stand, if you found it confusing.

[ls]

My question to Republican Socialists who see this:

Do you support Scottish, Welsh and perhaps even Cornish independence, do you see it as potentially weakening the English hegemony?

[Philosophical Materialist]

My question to Republican Socialists who see this:

Do you support Scottish, Welsh and perhaps even Cornish independence, do you see it as potentially weakening the English hegemony?

National groups should have the right to self-determination and economic sovereignty if they so choose.

Although the situations regarding Wales, Scotland and Cornwall are not the same as Ireland. There are issues regarding cultural hegemony but these territories do not have the imperialist-colonial character of Ireland.

[Musa Abdulrashid]

It's not that simple though. The brittish do not want to keep Northern Ireland, but there's the question of the 3 million something protestants living there. They would be quite unwilling, as polls have shown, to be forcibly merged into a capitalist ireland. Indeed that would be no solution but only further strengthen the problem. What is needed is workingclass unity, something which the armed republican struggle has been unable to achieve. Now I am not disputing the right to self-defense against the unionists and the british military, but this must be on a cross-community workingclass basis. As Connolly said:
...

I would say that this position is equivalent to waiting for the workers of the world to unite and eliminate the problem of national oppression rather than acting now to challenge it. The fact that certain groups have an interest in continuing the status quo of alienation, oppression and discrimination, including working class protestants in NI, Jews in Israel, or white people in the USA, doesn't mean everyone should just wait for them to change their minds. How are you going to have working class unity without an end to partition?

[Crux]

I would say that this position is equivalent to waiting for the workers of the world to unite and eliminate the problem of national oppression rather than acting now to challenge it. The fact that certain groups have an interest in continuing the status quo of alienation, oppression and discrimination, including working class protestants in NI, Jews in Israel, or white people in the USA, doesn't mean everyone should just wait for them to change their minds. How are you going to have working class unity without an end to partition?
Rather, how are you going to end partition without working class unity?
The struggle for socialism, against discrimination and for working class unity is hardly a wait and see position. I will say this again, the national question cannot be solved on a pro-capitalist basis. That's one of the reasons why Hamas, for example, won't ever create a free Palestine. Give it a few more years an they will be where Fatah are now.

[ls]

National groups should have the right to self-determination and economic sovereignty if they so choose.

Although the situations regarding Wales, Scotland and Cornwall are not the same as Ireland. There are issues regarding cultural hegemony but these territories do not have the imperialist-colonial character of Ireland.

Not presently no, but they had similar problems once upon a time. Aren't RS protests common in places like Edinburgh? I think there is a lot of support for republican socialism in Scotland in any case.


The fact that certain groups have an interest in continuing the status quo of alienation, oppression and discrimination, including working class protestants in NI, Jews in Israel, or white people in the USA, doesn't mean everyone should just wait for them to change their minds. How are you going to have working class unity without an end to partition?

This sounds pretty third-worldist.

[PRC-UTE]

My question to Republican Socialists who see this:

Do you support Scottish, Welsh and perhaps even Cornish independence, do you see it as potentially weakening the English hegemony?

Scottish, yes for sure, if it's led by something like the SSP or SSRM

As for the others, I'd be open to the idea, but it's mostly a question of whether or not there was a viable left republican force there.

I wouldn't support some of the more exotic and racist/anti-English groups like the awful "Scottish National Liberation Army"