1984 - can it be true

[scott thesocialist]

so has anyone read 1984 don't you think that the never ending war is what theus are doing there is no war to fight against communism so now they say the war on terroism could last 50years or longer, war is needed to provide big companies(the ones that rule the world) with a way of making money and to control the puplic with propanganda about the threat here the threat there to create panic and false hatred of the 'enemy'

[Dirty Commie]

Remember:

War is Peace
Freedom is slavery
Ignorance is strength

Yeah, never ending war is what the cappies are doing to make more money for the arms industry to make up for the fall of the Soviet Union.

[hazard]

it IS true

actually, orwell's comments were about the current state of society which still apply to today. every chanc the fascists get they attempt to introduce the "televiewer" technology. apparently, all dangerous, revolutionary individuals are bugged around the clock. it is only a matter of time before all people are similarly bugged.

anybody hear about the FBI tech that records all telephone calls that mention certain words, all instances of websites, chatrooms, and mesage boards that make use of their target words? I think its called "carnivore" or something like that. anyway, its supposed to route out terrorists when they mention stuff like BOMB. how difficult would it be to witch the keyword eacrh to "communist"? that is unless they havent already.

[Dirty Commie]

The carnivore program has list of like a thousand words including'Hillary Clinton' revolution, 'Jihad', 'Bomb' and others that nearly EVRYONE uses in each e-mail.

I went to the carnivore site and copied the words in an e-mail I sent to the white house.

I think I'm on a list now.

[hazard]

I work under the assumption that I AM already on such a list

I want the pigs to try and take me

TRY IT!

YOU GOT NOTHIN! NOTHING!

[scott thesocialist]

the secret is not to say or do anything that they can use against you in a court of law be careful what you say and who to, the walls have eyes and the computers can talk!

[Iepilei]

1984 is a childs look on the realisation of the authority of capitalism. it's overread and overused.

when it comes to describing the world we live in today, as far as class antagonisms go, I identify much more with the look taken in Brave New World, by Huxley. Through pleasure and enjoyment, the upper class has destroyed the ambeition of the lower classes.

[Conghaileach]

I haven't read it, but I've been told that Jack London's "The Iron Heel" (written in 1906) is the best book for the image of capitalism as is. Apparently the first 30 pages or so are pure socialist polemic.

[Pete]

I can't see how anyone can view 1984 as a picture of communism. The Party admits to be oppurtunist 'Why do we rule winston? [...] No, because we want power. Only power.' or something like that. The party makes no mistake distancing itself from communism. It is a guard against oppurtunists.

[Pete]

#Moderation Mode

1984 is a book...

Moved here (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=21&topic=526)

[Dirty Commie]

If anything, IngSoc is anti-communist. Big Brother creates class antagonism in a massive scale. The inner Party (most privileged, even have servants), outer party
(not so great) and the Proles (who have it like shit.)

[hazard]

crazy and dirty:

absolutely. 1984 is clearly anti-capitalist, but is taught to people as being anti-communist. it really pisses me off when they do that too, since the world of 1984 has so many similarities to the current world that I don't even know where to begin. you guys know what I mean.

[Pete]

I wrote a paper on that very same point hazard.

[hazard]

crazy

what point was that, that people are told '84 is anti-communist when its really anti-capitalist? that would have been a pretty good paper.

my hiskool paper on '84 was supposed to be a comparitive paper between it and animal farm. forget what I said though. something about facism or some shit. wasn't bad, wasn't great.

[Pete]

I compared 1984 to America

[hazard]

I wrote a similair paper in university, but instead it was about who should be next inducted into the EU. I quoted 1984 in that paper's conclusion as having prophesized the world of today.

like northamerica and england (airstrip one ) is Oceania, right? good stuff

[Exploited Class]

Well the book deserves reading to whomever has not yet read it. It scares me when I read it, and put me in a paranoid state of mind.

One reason to read it, because terms from the book are used all the time in common dialouge, big brother, ministry of love, thought crime, doublespeak..ect.ect.

I am not saying it is the answers to everything like some have said in the past, or that it is a blue print of things to come.

It shows methods of control and those methods are at work. Doublespeak is very common, changing language today instead of saying, "Tax cut for rich" you say? "Economic Stimulus" things like that. Department of Love is now our beloved Department of Homeland Defense or security.

You can draw some very spooky comparisons that should be examined. It won't be exact, like people staring at you through the TV, but we did try to push C.A.P.S. and we have Boy Scouts.

We shouldn't just say, "We live in 1984" but drawing conclusions with things like, security cameras everywhere, photospeed enforcement and red light cameras sure does make a good point.

For our 5 minutes of hate we have pictures of Osama Bin Ladden or Saddam on the set, to remind us why we must use our military stenght.

You can also see many comparisons at your work place after reading this. It shouldn't be the basis of one's argument but should allow you to have an ability to pick out what is currently wrong with our system.

[Pete]

Exploited, those are some of the very paralells I used. When I said that I compared them, I should have said paralelled them...

[Dirty Commie]

Quote: from exploitedclass on 9:24 pm on May 19, 2003
Well the book deserves reading to whomever has not yet read it. It scares me when I read it, and put me in a paranoid state of mind.

One reason to read it, because terms from the book are used all the time in common dialouge, big brother, ministry of love, thought crime, doublespeak..ect.ect.

I am not saying it is the answers to everything like some have said in the past, or that it is a blue print of things to come.

It shows methods of control and those methods are at work. Doublespeak is very common, changing language today instead of saying, "Tax cut for rich" you say? "Economic Stimulus" things like that. Department of Love is now our beloved Department of Homeland Defense or security.

You can draw some very spooky comparisons that should be examined. It won't be exact, like people staring at you through the TV, but we did try to push C.A.P.S. and we have Boy Scouts.

We shouldn't just say, "We live in 1984" but drawing conclusions with things like, security cameras everywhere, photospeed enforcement and red light cameras sure does make a good point.

For our 5 minutes of hate we have pictures of Osama Bin Ladden or Saddam on the set, to remind us why we must use our military stenght.

You can also see many comparisons at your work place after reading this. It shouldn't be the basis of one's argument but should allow you to have an ability to pick out what is currently wrong with our system.


I totally forgot about the five minutes hate.

Yeah, but the five minutes hate is more like '24 hour CNN brainwashing period to make you hate all non white christians'

[hazard]

the five minute hate is so much like our society

from opposing sports figures (ie. jeremy roenck f you're a toronto fan ), international figureheads (ie. osama bin ladden) and the villians of TV ( nikolai volkhoff, gal dukat, etc), our society channels and exploits us into hating machines who boo and hiss on command.

[canikickit]

I read the version with the 2 minutes of hate. It was shorter, but good.

1984 is in the top five books of the last century, I reckon.
Catch 22 is up there as well.

Fantastic stuff, particularily the transcripts from "the Book" and the essay on Newspeak, my personal favourite moments. and the sex scenes (why not?).

[Felicia]

The longer I live in Canada, the more it feels like 1984...

haha....kiki.....sex scenes..... hehehe, you make me laugh everytime :cheesy:

[scott thesocialist]

if well agree that the comparisons are, there then we know now how we can try and defeat the powers that controls us.
'the power is in the poeple and the issues that they address'

[Rastafari]

The hate could be like the Top Ten on David Letterman.

"Top Ten Signs that Ari Fleischer doesn't care anymore"
Number 6.
Doesn't try to hide the fact that he is joining Al-Quaeda

This was not popular, to say the least.

[Fever]

You guys are missing the point, 1984 is supposed to paint a picture of what communism can decay into. This can also apply to capitalism and any other form of government. Basically its to paint a picture that shows even the noblest ideas can be distorted and perverted.

[canikickit]

You guys are missing the point, 1984 is supposed to paint a picture of what communism can decay into.

You are missing the point. Books are more complex than what they are "supposed" to represent. Orwell's original intention isn't particularily important.

The book was written with the Soviet Union in mind. It is however, more than that, it is an essay on how power can be used and how power can be secured.

[Pete]

Cani beat me too it, but as I said much earlier in the thread: 1984 is a warning against oppurtunists.

[Exploited Class]

Nothing about that was a representation of Communism. It had classes, 3 of them. Communism is not about communism.

The closes thing I can think of is that they called in English Socialism or Ingsoc. Well just because they call themselves socialist doesn't mean they are.

I can call myself a pacifist while punching you in the face, doesn't make me much of a pacifist now does it?

[Acolyte Of Death]

I thought 1984 was about totalitarianism and its dangers....

[Exploited Class]

I have always thought of 1984 much like the movie The Cube.

A bunch of people doing things, the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. Eventually a thing is just built. No real intentions, but nobody was paying attention or just didn't care enough, maybe lazy. Eventually you have Ingsoc.

I know the book goes into a little more detail than that and it isn't how they explain it, but in my mind whenever I read it, that is how I feel it came to be.

[Fever]

I disagree Can. Although 1984 is slightly more complicated then i expressed, Orwells intentions while writing 1984 are very important. Although many of us may disagree with what he was trying to say, 1984 is very much about communism and the affects of a Utopian society.

[Felicia]

Quote: from Fever on 1:51 pm on May 26, 2003
I disagree Can. Although 1984 is slightly more complicated then i expressed, Orwells intentions while writing 1984 are very important. Although many of us may disagree with what he was trying to say, 1984 is very much about communism and the affects of a Utopian society.
the book isn't warning us of the evils of communism. It's warning us of the evils of autocracy!

[canikickit]

I disagree Can.

I agree.

I didn't mean to discount what you were saying, but I've seen (foolish) people express a dislike of 1984, simply because it criticises the representation of Communism that was around at the time (i.e. the Soviet Union).

I would not say that 1984 was about Communism and how it can go wrong, more about how power corrupts and how power can be taken and held and how humanity can be subjugated into a trampled mess. A government cannot be trusted to "rule" anyone; people are too greedy.

The society in 1984 is not classless.

I don't miss pints.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

In my opinion the book warns us for trusting the government and authority too much and tolerating their rule without constant questioning. That can be just as well communist authority (like we have seen during Stalin Rule in the 30's) and Captalist rule( like we are seeing constantly)