eXistenZ - not a bad film

[hazard]

has anyone seen this? I was impressed with it. and then I was twice as impressed when I discovered that it was released a year BEFORE the matrix. and then I was three times as impressed when I found out it was a government of Canada funded production.

basically, its about a revolutionary couple who infiltrates this video game test ring in order to assisnate its creator. their reasoning for doing it is based upon the "opiation" argument; that people are being drugged by the video game devices.

thats all I want to say about it, but the whole thing is mildly unsettling. exactly like the matrix was until it was over. it has all kinds of socialist principles strewn throughout it. and that makes sense considering canada has many socialist principles strewn throughout IT.

[The Muckraker]

Yep, I liked it a lot. I think Cronenberg is an underrated director. As in other of his films, he questions the nature of reality and how the flesh is the conduit of reality: change the flesh, change the world. This is alluded to, I think, when Dafoe is talking about the game ArtGod, and in Thou Art God.

I'm looking forward to his latest, which has gotten some very good reviews.

[hazard]

what will his latest be about, if you don't mind me asking?

I didn't know I was going to like it or not until the end. sometimes I hate movies that do that, but not this one. you know, after like 300 years of cartesian philosophy the popular medium of ANY age has finally captured the essence of it. while existentialism certainly worked in accordance to descartes principles, I would hardly call its presentation popular. is there any movies prior to existenz that work in the EXACT same way that it and the matrix do? if so, what are they cause I haven't seen them. until yesterday I though matrix was the first.

[The Muckraker]

By his latest I meant his last one, "Spider," which seems to be something of a departure for him, having worked mostly in the horror genre.

I'm not clear on the connection "eXistenZ" has to "The Matrix." While both deal with virtual realities, I think "The Matrix" is a bit more clear cut. In "eXistenZ" we're left not really knowing which parts of the movie were real and which were the game. While some scenes were obviously un-real, like turning bones into a gun, the characters as well as the audience don't know at the end whether the game is still going or not. Had the game already begun before the film started? Or, in traditional Cronenberg fashion, did the un-real affect the real? He explored that theme in "Videodrome" as well, I believe, and while not as good as "eXistenZ" still an interesting movie. See, I think that Cronenberg insists that the nature of reality cannot be known through the flesh, but the flesh is all we have, whereas in "The Matrix" there is an objective reality and this enlightenment allows Neo to manipulate the subjective reality. Cronenberg seems to say that objective reality exists, but we can't know it, and even when we try to we alter it, which reminds me of quantum physics.

Anyway, "Spider" is about a man released from a psychiatric institution after 20 years. I've read a bit about it and it, too, seems to deal with the nature of reality and our knowledge of it. Ralph Fiennes stars and from what I've heard gives a great performance. Cronenberg isn't to everone's liking, but I think he's made some of the most challenging films in the last two decades.

[hazard]

the connection is, as far as I can see, on the nature of reality. that is, what we think is "real" is really only a deception. which, according to both movies, is created by the capitalists as a means to control their source of labour.

by the end of X I think the whole movie became clear. the chinese security guard made the interesting claim, but the game ended just prior to the execution of the game creator. there might be room to think otherwise, but that seems to be the intent of it.

and oh yeah, the directors commentary supported this idea. apaprently the original had the chinese security guard shot and killed. but audiences didn't want to see him killed twice, apparently. which is rather fitting, considerig he would have really only been killed once...

[The Muckraker]

Ahh, director's commentary? Is this on the DVD? I've only seen the video, though I now have a DVD player. I must get it. I really enjoyed the movie and wrote a rather lengthy think piece about it. Fun stuff.

Yes, the nature of reality is the theme in both movies. It's a recurring theme with Cronenberg, as is the flesh. Even in "Dead Ringers" he put in a scene where Bujold bites the connection-made-flesh between the twins in a dream sequence. He's a rather materialist director, I think, all things philosphical must exist in reality.

You've an interesting point about the workers in X. I want to see it again for that reason now, too. In fact, you've made me wonder how Cronenberg would stand up to a Marxist interpretaion of his work, especially with the theme of alienation.

[Purple]

with no offence to the symbolic meaning of the film; but i think it was pretty bad............

[Donut Master]

I did not find this film entertaining, despite the original concept. Upon telling this opinion to my friends, they immidiately proceeded to beat me up.

[hazard]

dm:

I don't think it was really supposed to be entertaining, as its story was anti-entertainment. I found nothing about it very settling, except for the ending with the revolutionary couple mowing the designer donw. BAM! I felt both relieved AND entertained. I always like it when the bad guys get whats comin to them.

[革命者]

great movie, it was, indeed-- wonderfull!! and i found it entertaining from the beginning as i recall....

i too found it quite "socialist" at the time... mmh....

:cool:

Scotty

[Dhul Fiqar]

It made me think, that's for sure.

As for the "Matrix" connection, I don't see it. The theme of "what is real" is VERY old, I've seen the theme covered extensively in episodes of shows like Star Trek The Next Generation, The Outer Limits, Twilight Zone, etc.

It's a pretty common plot element, but more often in the context of dreams or hallucinations rather than being necessarily digitally created.

--- G.