Phaedo

[BurnTheOliveTree]

As part of my history course I'm reading Phaedo, an account of Socrates's final hours and the arguments he made regarding the soul, forms, etc.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the ideas contained?



Qualities like justice, equality, beauty, and so on exist independently in their own right as 'forms'. The argument given to defend this is that, for example, there are no perfect equalities in the sensible world, yet we all know what we speak of when we talk about equality - therefore the idea exists in its own right, since we have never detected it in the world around us.



If this holds true of equality then it makes sense for it to hold true of every other idea - eg. nothing is perfectly beautiful, yet we know what we speak of when we talk about beauty, so beauty exists as a thing in itself. Socrates then suggests that this means all of our knowledge (since it is all ideas) consists of recollecting what we already know innately.

I have a seminar group about this tomorrow - it seems to me that the entire thing is bullshit, to be honest. What are these 'forms' made out of? etc. But I feel like I'd seem a bit annoyng just asking that sort of question. Anyway, thoughts, views, opinions, analysis?

[Luís Henrique]

As part of my history course I'm reading Phaedo, an account of Socrates's final hours and the arguments he made regarding the soul, forms, etc.

(snip)

I have a seminar group about this tomorrow - it seems to me that the entire thing is bullshit, to be honest. What are these 'forms' made out of? etc. But I feel like I'd seem a bit annoyng just asking that sort of question. Anyway, thoughts, views, opinions, analysis?

The "forms" are made of the same substance that any other abstraction. The problem with Plato is that he seems to believe in an "objective" existence of these Ideas in a sort of Heaven, outside any human practice/experience. Arguably this implies a God that thinks those "pure Ideas" constantly.

If it is for a history course, I would discuss the a-historicity of Plato-Socrates' views.

In a more philosophic vein, I would perhaps ask whether there is a "perfect Idea" of imperfection, and the implications of either answer (if yes, wouldn't that be a contradiction? and if no, because imperfection is merely a deviation from the pure Idea [as in uglyness being a mere absence of beauty], why aren't all "Ideas" just deviations from the "Idea" of totality?)

Luís Henrique