PASOK win greek parliament

[ls]

http://www.emportal.rs/vesti/srbija/100399.html

What's the reaction by Greece's real left at this? Will it stem the class-struggle? I heard there was an explosion of some kind nearby one of PASOK's offices or something.

This looks like a good indication of constant struggle still going on in Greece: clandestinenglish.wordpress.com (http://clandestinenglish.wordpress.com/)/libcom (http://libcom.org/news)

Is it felt that the electing of this soc-dem party will pacify the left? Or will it intensify its struggle, making people understand that Capitalism no matter what its flank doesn't work, I hope the latter of course.

Already people are busy calling it "socialist".. :rolleyes:

[Mälli]

These guys are social democrats?

[ls]

These guys are social democrats?

Absolutely, they are affiliated with the socialist international (as is New Labour and a bunch of other soc-dems). That should tell you more than enough.

[FSL]

What's the reaction by Greece's real left at this? Will it stem the class-struggle? I heard there was an explosion of some kind nearby one of PASOK's offices or something.


Is it felt that the electing of this soc-dem party will pacify the left? Or will it intensify its struggle, making people understand that Capitalism no matter what its flank doesn't work, I hope the latter of course.

Already people are busy calling it "socialist".. :rolleyes:


Some people that belong to the left as they define it might even jump on the bandwagon and ask for positions in the new goverment.


Alas, yes there will be strikes in the coming years but the "Socialists" that won control the unions and are supported by all the major media.
Disappointing results when the people that beat up pensioners in 2003 for daring to ask for a bigger income, receive that kind of support.

[Wanted Man]

It often seems to happen that, in countries with multi-party systems, most of the electorate tends to go for the "safe" option of one of the big parties. In this case, because of the left turn, to the "left" big party. So that many people who are open to actual socialist ideas will still vote social-democratic, the lesser evil. So the growth on the left in the streets does not correspond with its election results. The opportunists of SYRIZA did not grow either.

So it may be a "victory" if you are pleased to see social-democrats take over, but it's more likely a mandate for policies aimed against the working class. The communists seem to be saying (http://inter.kke.gr/News/2009news/2009-10-elections) the same thing, emphasizing that the ballot box is not the way to any kind of meaningful change.

FSL, I was wondering about something: what about the level of abstinence from the election? Because last summer, I heard from KKE comrades that the bourgeois media were suddenly promoting abstaining as some sort of "alternative", a "rejection of the system", and that the KKE were agitating against that. How did this work out in this election?

[FSL]

FSL, I was wondering about something: what about the level of abstinence from the election? Because last summer, I heard from KKE comrades that the bourgeois media were suddenly promoting abstaining as some sort of "alternative", a "rejection of the system", and that the KKE were agitating against that. How did this work out in this election?


Ah yes, especially before the elections for the european parliament, going to the beach instead of voting was the No 1 way to show your disdain to the political system.

Participation was as usual here, at 71% oficially but bigger in reality since there hasn't been a cleanup in the electorate lists for ages.

[Comrade Gwydion]

How did the KKE fair?

[Wanted Man]

Lost about a half percent. You can see a table, and their statement, here (http://inter.kke.gr/News/2009news/2009-10-elections).

FSL: thanks for the info. :)

[Kukulofori]

What was the turnout, though?

edit: 70%. disappoointing.

[Comrade Gwydion]

Any chance KKE will be a coalition party along with PASOK?

[Crux]

Any chance KKE will be a coalition party along with PASOK?
Shouldn't that be "risk" rather than "chance"?
Note: This is a diss against coalition politics, not the KKE.

[Wanted Man]

Any chance KKE will be a coalition party along with PASOK?

They don't usually do coalition governments in Greece. If a party gets more than 41% of the vote, it will be given a majority (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_past_the_post). PASOK got about 43% of the vote and the new prime minister has been sworn in already.

[FSL]

Any chance KKE will be a coalition party along with PASOK?

Nope, not one in a million.

And that never depended on Pasok having/not having the majority in parliament.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Anti-anarchist pogrom launched by Socialists in Greece

One day after assuming power, the Socialists launched a massive invasion of Exarcheia, the Athens anarchist enclave, with mass detentions and brutal intimidation of locals.

On the early hours of Friday 9 of October, four days after the landslide victory of the Socialists in the greek national elections, and only a day after assuming power, the Panhellenic Socialist Movement (Pasok) proved its intentions towards the social antagonistic movement that has swept the country since the December Uprising: brutal repression.

Almost one thousand cops of all corpses, riot police, motorised police, secret police and usual uniformed officers swept Exarcheia, the anarchist enclave of the greek capital, at 01.30 am. The mass invasion of the police-free area was orchestrated by the new Minister of Public Order (or as the Socialist newspeak has it Minister of Citizens' Protection) Mr Chrisohoidis, infamous for his unorthodox methods in capturing and interrogating members of the November 17 urban guerrilla group in the summer of 2002 - i.e. torture. On his side the genius of repression has as of yesterday Mr Vougias, a well-known ex extreme-leftist eager to share his knowledge of things revolutionary with the State.

During the invasion, which came only a day after the new PM, Mr Papandreou the 3rd, announced that his government is "antiauthoritarians in power", hundreds of people were stopped and harassed by cops who broke into 26 bars, camped in the liberated park of Navarinou street and generally portrayed a most avenging and brutal attitude towards anyone who just happens to be within the invisible boundaries of the radical area. Reports claim that several young people were seriously beaten during the operations.

According to the press more than 60 people were detained during the pogrom. Mr Vougias announced that "anomy will be abolished" and connected the invasion with an attack launched the previous morning by more than a dozen activists against banks and a fascist bookshop in the centre of the city as an act of solidarity to the 3 boys arrested under the anti-terrorist law.

Link: http://libcom.org/news/anti-anarchist-pogrom-launched-socialists-greece-09102009

[Mather]

Anti-anarchist pogrom launched by Socialists in Greece

One day after assuming power, the Socialists launched a massive invasion of Exarcheia, the Athens anarchist enclave, with mass detentions and brutal intimidation of locals.

On the early hours of Friday 9 of October, four days after the landslide victory of the Socialists in the greek national elections, and only a day after assuming power, the Panhellenic Socialist Movement (Pasok) proved its intentions towards the social antagonistic movement that has swept the country since the December Uprising: brutal repression.

Almost one thousand cops of all corpses, riot police, motorised police, secret police and usual uniformed officers swept Exarcheia, the anarchist enclave of the greek capital, at 01.30 am. The mass invasion of the police-free area was orchestrated by the new Minister of Public Order (or as the Socialist newspeak has it Minister of Citizens' Protection) Mr Chrisohoidis, infamous for his unorthodox methods in capturing and interrogating members of the November 17 urban guerrilla group in the summer of 2002 - i.e. torture. On his side the genius of repression has as of yesterday Mr Vougias, a well-known ex extreme-leftist eager to share his knowledge of things revolutionary with the State.

During the invasion, which came only a day after the new PM, Mr Papandreou the 3rd, announced that his government is "antiauthoritarians in power", hundreds of people were stopped and harassed by cops who broke into 26 bars, camped in the liberated park of Navarinou street and generally portrayed a most avenging and brutal attitude towards anyone who just happens to be within the invisible boundaries of the radical area. Reports claim that several young people were seriously beaten during the operations.

According to the press more than 60 people were detained during the pogrom. Mr Vougias announced that "anomy will be abolished" and connected the invasion with an attack launched the previous morning by more than a dozen activists against banks and a fascist bookshop in the centre of the city as an act of solidarity to the 3 boys arrested under the anti-terrorist law.


No surprise, PASOK is not even social democratic (in the traditional sense) anymore, but a centre/centre-right party along the lines of the US Democrats or New Labour in Britain.

Whether PASOK, New Democracy, Orthodox Rally or the KKE were to win the elections, the results would be the same; austerity budgets and cuts in social services and assistance to the poor and working class, attacks on peoples freedoms and the right to dissent and activism, corruption and cronyism, police brutality and the ever widening gap between rich and poor.

Regardless of what party wins the elections, the poor and working class in Greece, along with anarchists, immigrants, the homeless, squatters and the unemployed will suffer in the same way as before or in a worse way than before.

Lets hope this December in Greece will be more explosive, more angry, more militant and more organised than last December.

[FSL]

Thank god, working class in greece, as it happens to most places in the world and as it has happened throughout history, has nothing bringing it close to anarchism.

And no hopefully this December won't be "more explosive, more angry" in a way anarchists would want. Unlike others that admire the revolutions from their TV sets for the 2 days they last, some of us will need to deal with all the crap that follows.

PS. Also, very funny that you didn't include opportunism's other face when you listed the parties that want to harm the working class. That "extreme leftist" Mr Vougias comes from Syriza. A minister's paycheck is just too tempting for some people.

[F9]

Thank god, working class in greece, as it happens to most places in the world and as it has happened throughout history, has nothing bringing it close to anarchism
And no hopefully this December won't be "more explosive, more angry" in a way anarchists would want. Unlike others that admire the revolutions from their TV sets for the 2 days they last, some of us will need to deal with all the crap that follows.

omg:rolleyes::rolleyes: Yeyyy stupidity is still alive on this forum.

[FSL]

omg:rolleyes::rolleyes: Yeyyy stupidity is still alive on this forum.



Very much so.

[Das war einmal]

No surprise, PASOK is not even social democratic (in the traditional sense) anymore, but a centre/centre-right party along the lines of the US Democrats or New Labour in Britain.

Whether PASOK, New Democracy, Orthodox Rally or the KKE were to win the elections, the results would be the same; austerity budgets and cuts in social services and assistance to the poor and working class, attacks on peoples freedoms and the right to dissent and activism, corruption and cronyism, police brutality and the ever widening gap between rich and poor.

Regardless of what party wins the elections, the poor and working class in Greece, along with anarchists, immigrants, the homeless, squatters and the unemployed will suffer in the same way as before or in a worse way than before.

Lets hope this December in Greece will be more explosive, more angry, more militant and more organised than last December.


Thats utter bullshit, the KKE took part in the demonstrations last year.

[ls]

Thats utter bullshit, the KKE took part in the demonstrations last year.

I'm sure good workers in KKE did, just like the workers in AKEL take part in demonstations over in Cyprus.

That doesn't make the organisations themselves any less eurocommunist.

[MaoTseHelen]

Anti-anarchist pogrom launched by Socialists in Greece

One day after assuming power, the Socialists launched a massive invasion of Exarcheia, the Athens anarchist enclave, with mass detentions and brutal intimidation of locals.

On the early hours of Friday 9 of October, four days after the landslide victory of the Socialists in the greek national elections, and only a day after assuming power, the Panhellenic Socialist Movement (Pasok) proved its intentions towards the social antagonistic movement that has swept the country since the December Uprising: brutal repression.

Almost one thousand cops of all corpses, riot police, motorised police, secret police and usual uniformed officers swept Exarcheia, the anarchist enclave of the greek capital, at 01.30 am. The mass invasion of the police-free area was orchestrated by the new Minister of Public Order (or as the Socialist newspeak has it Minister of Citizens' Protection) Mr Chrisohoidis, infamous for his unorthodox methods in capturing and interrogating members of the November 17 urban guerrilla group in the summer of 2002 - i.e. torture. On his side the genius of repression has as of yesterday Mr Vougias, a well-known ex extreme-leftist eager to share his knowledge of things revolutionary with the State.

During the invasion, which came only a day after the new PM, Mr Papandreou the 3rd, announced that his government is "antiauthoritarians in power", hundreds of people were stopped and harassed by cops who broke into 26 bars, camped in the liberated park of Navarinou street and generally portrayed a most avenging and brutal attitude towards anyone who just happens to be within the invisible boundaries of the radical area. Reports claim that several young people were seriously beaten during the operations.

According to the press more than 60 people were detained during the pogrom. Mr Vougias announced that "anomy will be abolished" and connected the invasion with an attack launched the previous morning by more than a dozen activists against banks and a fascist bookshop in the centre of the city as an act of solidarity to the 3 boys arrested under the anti-terrorist law.

Completely unacceptable.

[ls]

Indeed. And it's nice to think some on here want a coalition government between KKE and PASOK. :rolleyes:

[Wanted Man]

Nope, not one in a million.

And that never depended on Pasok having/not having the majority in parliament.

That's true as well.


omg:rolleyes::rolleyes: Yeyyy stupidity is still alive on this forum.

Please don't spam in Politics.


I'm sure good workers in KKE did, just like the workers in AKEL take part in demonstations over in Cyprus.

That doesn't make the organisations themselves any less eurocommunist.

It was not "some good workers", but the party itself that organized rallies. Also, do you know what Eurocommunists are? The Eurocommunists are the ones that make up the main component of the "left coalition" SYRIZA.


Indeed. And it's nice to think some on here want a coalition government between KKE and PASOK. :rolleyes:

Who has said that? Reading is also an art...

[F9]

Please don't spam in Politics.

My spam wasnt worse that the post i quoted....




It was not "some good workers", but the party itself that organized rallies.

Yes yes, the party organized some rallies, some closed rallies where no one is accepted inside the rallie, where it is heavily guarded and where in all this exploding situation all they were doing was getting out walk a bit on their own, say a chant and close in their houses..
And lets not forget their condemn on multiple occasions on the "evil Anarchists" who break things, their condemn on every kind of violence, and they knew that most of the things that made the riot look bad were taken by state agents, though they preferred in their usual tactic blame the Anarkkkists... Where were they when all the others(and in the particular time, the situation was far from been just Anarchists) were fighting with the police?Where were they when they were massive attacks and arrests on comrades?Where are they today when political prisoners are in jail for unfair and made up things?No where WM..
Their possition is obvious and from their members posts, we see FSL that dont wants more explosive situation, because they will suffer later..:rolleyes::rolleyes:Whats the suffer?You will loose 0.2 ppercent from your party percentage?:rolleyes:
Those who suffer are those who fight!

[FSL]

I'm sure good workers in KKE did, just like the workers in AKEL take part in demonstations over in Cyprus.

That doesn't make the organisations themselves any less eurocommunist.


You seriously need to read up on the communist movement history, what you're saying makes no sense.


Yes yes, the party organized some rallies, some closed rallies where no one is accepted inside the rallie

their condemn on multiple occasions on the "evil Anarchists" who break things


all the others(and in the particular time, the situation was far from been just Anarchists

You will loose 0.2 ppercent from your party percentage?:rolleyes:

Closed rallies? You mean you had to show an ID to participate?

Noone is condemning the "evil" anarchists and I haven't seen any. I 've seen many not so bright ones though.

Many people that weren't anarchists? How many? 500? Because during all the popular insurrection there weren't thousands upon thousands workers filling the streets, were there?

And funny you should talk with such an "arrogance" over 0.2%. 15-20 thousand people are more than you 'll ever see while burning cars.

And how people end up taking the bill is because society is pushed to a much more conservative stance when those that are normally in the sidelines (put there by the working class that has no use of their "methods") end up representing "the people".

[frozencompass]

During the invasion, which came only a day after the new PM, Mr Papandreou the 3rd, announced that his government is "antiauthoritarians in power"

Would you look at that.

[ls]

Please don't spam in Politics.

How did Fuserg spam? If we're going to let people say "lay down your arms workers need to be quiet" we might as well let Capitalists stay unrestricted.


It was not "some good workers", but the party itself that organized rallies.

Yeah with police buffers and the like, it's not a proper rally is it when that's the case?


Also, do you know what Eurocommunists are? The Eurocommunists are the ones that make up the main component of the "left coalition" SYRIZA.

Perhaps they aren't eurocommunists in the traditional sense, but they are certainly sellouts of the working-class, both KKE and AKEL that is.


Who has said that? Reading is also an art...

I think it's fair enough to say Comrade Gwydion hinted at it...


You seriously need to read up on the communist movement history, what you're saying makes no sense.

Rich coming from you, talking about how workers should stop causing trouble? You sound like a Capitalist.


Many people that weren't anarchists? How many? 500? Because during all the popular insurrection there weren't thousands upon thousands workers filling the streets, were there?

And funny you should talk with such an "arrogance" over 0.2%. 15-20 thousand people are more than you 'll ever see while burning cars.

Are you arguing that militant action wasn't supported by literally hundreds of thousands of people in Greece? Including at least one educational institution which practically condoned the violence.

You are trying to make out that it's "unacceptable".


And how people end up taking the bill is because society is pushed to a much more conservative stance when those that are normally in the sidelines (put there by the working class that has no use of their "methods") end up representing "the people".

Fuserg was right, stupidity is very very alive. :rolleyes: