Could a Conservative victory in the next UK election be a good thing for Communists?

[Old Major]

Okay, controvertial title, but I couldn't fit everything I wanted to say inthe space allowed.

First of all, I would like to clarify that this is just an idea, and I don't necessarily agree with it, I just want to see what reaction it gets.

Currently, it looks almost certain that the Tories will win the next General election in the UK, and there is even a possibility that Labour could be knocked out of the number 2 spot by the Lib-Dems. Whilst any Tory government is a terrible thing, I would like to suggest that a convincing Tory win could force britain's workers to look for another party that will support them. As the Tories slowly make things worse for them, the Communist Party of Britain can drum up support, in the people who once voted Labour.

It is a sad fact that New Labour has moved so far away from it's socialist roots so as to be almost unrecognisable. During the Thatcher years it was still able to hang onto it's core voters, but now, with a Conservative victory almost assured, is it time for the communist party to become the new voice of the working classes, to get them throught another term or so of oppression?

[Cymru]

I agree with you Major in that Labour is so far from Socialism that I doubt things could get worse under the Conservatives. The problem is that the Labour party is still seen as the working mans party (well in my locality anyway) and even though they have lost a lot of support, I just wonder whether they have lost enough voters to allow the Left to swoop in as the new voice of the working class.

[Spawn of Stalin]

That Thatcher government prompted a shift to the left in the British working class, why should the Cameron government be any different. The real question is will socialists be prepared to take advantage of that fact? The Tories are going to win the next election, we should be out there selling papers in every town, supporting every picket line, and at every demonstration so that by the time people get bored of the Conservatives, and they will get bored of them, we are in a good position to establish ourselves as a reasonable alternative.

Also, you make reference to the Communist Party, I take it you are referring to the Communist Party of Great Britain (Marxist-Leninist).

;)

[alhop10]

Yeh, it's completely subjective. I agree with Red Son, just like we can't say for sure that the crisis of capitalism is going to be good for the left (e.g. irish 'yes' vote for lisbon treaty, fascists in Europe etc.) we can't know whether a defeat for 'social democracy' and the election of a tory government in this country will be good for the left or not. To suggest that ' a convincing Tory win could force britain's workers to look for another party that will support them' depends entirely on the existence of a viable electoral alternative to New Labour. If we can build one, it's possible. If not, who knows? Im jst interested to ask who you mean by 'the communist party' too?

[dez]

Tried before with the nazis, worked wonderfully.


/sarcasm

[Philosophical Materialist]

It will mean further growth of far-left groups and increased interest in socialist politics, but it's bad for the material well-being for the working class as a whole.

[chebol]

Cymru wrote:


I agree with you Major in that Labour is so far from Socialism that I doubt things could get worse under the Conservatives.

Prepare to be shocked. Very shocked.

Also, it may not "mean further growth of far-left groups and increased interest in socialist politics".

It's just as likely to result in a further rise in popularity for the BNP, while the unions, Labour Left and a fair swag of the broader (non-party) left pull in behind the Labour Party.

There is no reason, given the far left's inability to get it's shit together right now, at the height of dissatisfaction with NuLab, that a political and governmental shift to the right will help our cause in any way.

I rather suspect the opposite will happen, and the already weak union movement will come under further sustained attack.

[Revy]

Maybe Labour will move to the left? Away from New Labour, I mean. But that's not moving toward socialism so it would just be more social democracy.

p.s. Old Major, I like your screenname :)

[Matty_UK]

When the next election comes around, whichever party wins it (almost certainly the Tories) is going to have to start a massive campaign of public sector cuts to pay off the deficit caused by the bank bailout. This will affect the NHS, (and possibly see it completely privatised) public sector pensions, and even dole money, while at the same time seeing increase in taxation. Add to this the millions of people already losing their jobs, a situation which will be aggravated by the decrease in consumer spending caused by unemployed/squeezed public sector workers, and you will definately see serious social unrest. As the Tories are ideologically driven to cut zealously it is extremely likely they will take this even further than necassary forment an even greater backlash.

Now, in addition to this, bear in mind that for all their apparent success the Tories don't actually have a higher number of votes than last election. (and for all the scaremongering, nor do the BNP) The reason they're winning is that nobody is willing to support Labour anymore - there's still the same people voting Tories as there has always been, meaning they're going to come into power with little popular support, (and even less fervent support) and a LOT of hatred already there, and widespread social unrest. I also think it's likely that the Labour party will disintegrate after the next election, as they've lost the vast majority of their members and I suspect most of their current members/MPs don't really believe it what they're doing anymore. They know they have nothing to contribute and they are full of careerists and opportunists, so after their inevitable crushing defeat in the next election, I can imagine a mass exodus from the party.

All of this creates a superb opportunity to create a revolutionary situation, and I sincerely believe we will see one beginning in the next 5 years. It's the job of communists not to recruit members to their sects when widespread civil unrest begins, but to take part in and link up different protests and actions, and attempt to create a genuine working class party out of that.

[core_1]

I'm not sure the anti-capitalist revolution simply reacts to attacks on the working class. The morale of the proletariat could instead be damaged and class conciousness suppressed. Assuming that the revolution is this simple just seems to be an over generalisation.

[Olerud]

If anything it will make Scottish independence more likely, they don't have to many fans in Scotland.

[Radical]

Ofcourse it could be a great thing for the left in Britain. However, it could also be a diaster for humanity as a whole.

[bricolage]

Tried before with the nazis, worked wonderfully.


/sarcasm

Indeed.


When succeeding events proved the utter falsity of this prediction, the KPD leadership, far from correcting itself, went on to greater folly: the assertion that Hitler’s accession to power would prove his undoing. Though it was never officially launched as a slogan, the Stalinists operated on the mad idea of “First Hitler; then it is our turn.” This was plainly indicated on October 14, 1931, when Remmele, parliamentary deputy and one of the three top leaders of the KPD, boasted in the Reichstag:

“Herr Bruening has put it very plainly: once they [the nazis] are in power, then the united front of the proletariat will be established and it will make a clean sweep of everything. We are the victors of the coming day; and the question is no longer one of who shall vanquish whom. This question is already answered. The question now reads only, ‘At what moment shall we overthrow the bourgeoisie?’ We are not afraid of the Fascist gentlemen. They will shoot their bolt quicker than any other government.”http://marx.org/history/etol/newspape/fi/vol04/no02/phelan.htm

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

That Thatcher government prompted a shift to the left in the British working class, why should the Cameron government be any different.
The Labour govt. didn't...


we should be out there selling papers in every town
yeah...

[Old Major]

Just to clear up confusion, when I said "The Communist Party of Britain" I meant "The Communist Party of Britain". The Communist Party of Great Britain hasn't existed since 1991.

[Luís Henrique]

Okay, controvertial title, but I couldn't fit everything I wanted to say inthe space allowed.

First of all, I would like to clarify that this is just an idea, and I don't necessarily agree with it, I just want to see what reaction it gets.

Currently, it looks almost certain that the Tories will win the next General election in the UK, and there is even a possibility that Labour could be knocked out of the number 2 spot by the Lib-Dems. Whilst any Tory government is a terrible thing, I would like to suggest that a convincing Tory win could force britain's workers to look for another party that will support them. As the Tories slowly make things worse for them, the Communist Party of Britain can drum up support, in the people who once voted Labour.

It is a sad fact that New Labour has moved so far away from it's socialist roots so as to be almost unrecognisable. During the Thatcher years it was still able to hang onto it's core voters, but now, with a Conservative victory almost assured, is it time for the communist party to become the new voice of the working classes, to get them throught another term or so of oppression?

People aren't moving to the left if the Tories are going to win an election - people are moving to the right. The unraveling of Labour is not a measure of working class dellusionment with that party, but a measure of the working class' own unraveling: more working class people voting directly for their enemies, more working class people no more recognising themselves as working class.

Luís Henrique

[Revy]

Just to clear up confusion, when I said "The Communist Party of Britain" I meant "The Communist Party of Britain". The Communist Party of Great Britain hasn't existed since 1991.

the Communist Party of Great Britain (http://www.cpgb.org.uk/) exists.

[Olerud]

the Communist Party of Great Britain (http://www.cpgb.org.uk/) exists.
That's Communist Party of Great Britain (Provisional Central Committee). just thought I would piss on your fire

[MilitantAnarchist]

Unfortunately, i think it will work against 'our' favour... Labour isn't seen as the working class party in my area, the BNP is.

I think this will depressingly play right into the right's hands. BUT this brings me nicely into a thread i was going to make... I think we should use the current capitalist government to our advantages. It is a Guerrilla mentality, that all the platforms capitalism creates for there gain, we can use through music and other media.
Look at 70's and 80's music scene, it was promoting a anti-fascist metality with Punk, Ska, Reggae and in the 90's the Brit pop scene did a tiny bit for the left with some catchy working class songs (all be it by middle class arses)...

If people like us can promote anti racism just like the 2tone of way back when, we can get more people opposed to BNP. I do know that it isn't the best way forward to go to those RAR days with thousands of white people patronising black people (and todays love music hate racism festivals are shite) but times move forward, and i dont think it would be like that again... I see it as that anyway, I know it isnt as black and white as that (excuse the pun).

Capitalism will exploit anything if it brings in the cash, and i really believe that it will be their downfall, so aslong as we protest against them still, but have people singing about more then the bullshit they currently do, it will work...

We need a good old tory **** like Thatcher to rally up some hatred for them, and Nick Griffin is slowly becoming seen as a Enoch Powell by people (especially with his BLAME THE JEWS talk, and for some reason the media isnt picking up on this...)

[Revy]

That's Communist Party of Great Britain (Provisional Central Committee). just thought I would piss on your fire

they call themselves the CPGB, and they are the only ones that do. Anyway, the original post that started this discussion was talking about the CPGB-ML which is completely different.

[MilitantAnarchist]

CPGB? I can see a future with everyone wearing CBGB (the New York punk club that help start off all those NYC punk bands) style shirts with CPGB on instead... shit, maybe i should of been a capitalist with an advertising head like that?? ah well, maybe next time :laugh:

[Spawn of Stalin]

The Labour govt. didn't...
So are we to assume that no government will prompt a shit to the left, ever? I disagree with your bleak outlook on things, what chebol said is absolutely correct, as bad as things are now, they are about to get much worse.

yeah...
The power of the paper should never be underestimated, if anything selling papers is just a good way of engaging the working class on the street.

[ls]

It's not an unfair observation to point out that in the 80s, the UK could have achieved socialism thanks to the absolute mass strikes that occurred, indeed you could say we were in a more favourable position as the left then, was very powerful.

Then again, you could say that the national grid power cut strikes in the 70s were powerful too. It depends largely on how we utilise our position to agitate for socialism, wishing bad for the proletariat by saying "it's good for the Left if people are more desperate" is just as silly as saying "we can build massive support for the real Left by having a fake left socdem party in power".

[blake 3:17]

CPGB? I can see a future with everyone wearing CBGB (the New York punk club that help start off all those NYC punk bands) style shirts with CPGB on instead... shit, maybe i should of been a capitalist with an advertising head like that?? ah well, maybe next time

What would the OMFUG refer to?

Labour's going to lose big time in elections. I don't see why leftists should give it any support outside particular ?? constituencies ?? ((we call them ridings here in Canada) anyways there may be particularly odious Tories you'd want to campaign against)

Is RESPECT running a full slate?

[Olerud]

they call themselves the CPGB, and they are the only ones that do. Anyway, the original post that started this discussion was talking about the CPGB-ML which is completely different.
sorry then. How are they COMPLETELY different ?

[Spawn of Stalin]

PCC is Leninist and basically revolves around a few core members, most notably Mark Fischer their paper, Weekly Worker, is very very popular but it tends to talk about the activities of other parties, namely CPB and SWP, a bit too much. They are very much opposed to Stalin's leadership of the Soviet Union. PCC also have a history of endorsing Labour in elections. Marxist-Leninist are obviously very pro-Stalin and are heavily affiliated with the Indian Workers' Association and the Stalin Society, Harpal Brar is a major figure in both of these organisations. We have fraternal relations with parties in China, Cuba, DPRK, and Vietnam so really the biggest difference is probably the support for "Stalinism" and Marxist-Leninist parties. In all honestly I don't know much about CPGB (PCC) but I think there are a few closet Trots among their ranks.

[ls]

PCC is Leninist and basically revolves around a few core members, most notably Mark Fischer their paper, Weekly Worker, is very very popular but it tends to talk about the activities of other parties, namely CPB and SWP, a bit too much. They are very much opposed to Stalin's leadership of the Soviet Union. PCC also have a history of endorsing Labour in elections. Marxist-Leninist are obviously very pro-Stalin and are heavily affiliated with the Indian Workers' Association and the Stalin Society, Harpal Brar is a major figure in both of these organisations. We have fraternal relations with parties in China, Cuba, DPRK, and Vietnam so really the biggest difference is probably the support for "Stalinism" and Marxist-Leninist parties. In all honestly I don't know much about CPGB (PCC) but I think there are a few closet Trots among their ranks.

CPGB (PCC) have certainly had strange positions in the past.. http://web.archive.org/web/20071023215659/http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/273/indkosova.html should be in an interesting indication.

I'm sure you as a CPGB(ML) supporter do know more about the CPGB(PCC) than you let on.

[Spawn of Stalin]

All I really know is what I've read in the Weekly Worker, they publish their aims somewhere near the end of every edition.

http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/index.php

[Dr Mindbender]

i dont think it will make a difference. They will probably retain power for 1 or 2 more terms, people will forget why they left Labour and vote labour in again. Thus the cycle repeats.

[Bitter Ashes]

I've considered the same thing actualy. Although there is two sides to this:
1) Voters elect a right wing goverment. It inevitably lets them down and people become disilussioned with the right wing and vote Labour instead.
2) Voters elect Labour or other so-called left-wing reformists and it inevitably lets them down. People mistakenly become disillusioned with what they percieve to be "the left" and vote Tory instead.
Where's the situation where voters become disillusioned with all political parties and deciede it's a waste of time and the only solution is to organise themselves?