burqua wearing women not allowed in a bus

[danyboy27]

Recently my province accepted some burmanese refugee, some of them wearing burqua.

one of them have tried to go in the bus in my city without showing her face for identification purpose and wasnt allowed to enter for that reason.

she had a monthly pass that required visual identification but didnt wanted to show her face.

what do you think of the incident? i got mixed feeling about this, but i think the driver did the good thing.

i clearly remember that last year during a snowstorm the driver asked me to show him my face before to enter in the bus for identification purpose.

[ls]

Recently my province accepted some burmanese refugee, some of them wearing burqua.

one of them have tried to go in the bus in my city without showing her face for identification purpose and wasnt allowed to enter for that reason.

she had a monthly pass that required visual identification but didnt wanted to show her face.

what do you think of the incident? i got mixed feeling about this, but i think the driver did the good thing.

i clearly remember that last year during a snowstorm the driver asked me to show him my face before to enter in the bus for identification purpose.

o noez muslims might bomb the bus.

Do you think that all bus drivers bother doing that with everyone? Didn't think so tbh.

[spice756]

The ID part makes it murky .But the UK wants to ban all hoodies ,head gear and do-rags sayng people doing robbery or B&E .

People should be allowed in any building , restaurant or fast food.I don't believe in dress code at all.They are mocking some one faith and discriminating some one race ,sex, age ,culture.. :scared:They discriminating blacks not allowing them in night club , bars , disco ,restaurant wearing baggy clothes and do-rag. But allow white people in.

The dress code is discriminating the poor people ,blacks people or some one faith ,race ,sex, age ,culture.

[revolt4thewin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfiNT6AKG0s&feature=related
This is funny watch you will lough you but off.

[spice756]

o noez muslims might bomb the bus.

Do you think that all bus drivers bother doing that with everyone? Didn't think so tbh.

It is mocking some one faith .It is the bus driver that has never seen a muslims before.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sigree/72251436/

You can't tell people how they should dress or look.If some one has a faith or whats to dress like hippie ,street punk or homeless person that is his or her right.

Just becuse you don't like it does NOT mean the other person should not wear it.I mean if I dress like this guy http://www.flickr.com/photos/ianclamp/3050417557/

And you don't like it that is your problem not my problem.



Now if the mom or dad is forcing the kid to dress that way for faith than that is problem , but if the person wants to dress like that do to faith than the person should be allowed to.. You can't be discriminating some one race ,sex, age ,culture or faith or what ever the person what to dress like .

[revolution inaction]

why should you need to show your face to get on a bus? its kind of anti social to go around with your face covered all the time but i dont see why it should matter who you are when you want to ride bus

[ls]

It is mocking some one faith .It is the bus driver that has never seen a muslims before.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sigree/72251436/

You can't tell people how they should dress or look.If some one has a faith or whats to dress like hippie ,street punk or homeless person that is his or her right.

Just becuse you don't like it does NOT mean the other person should not wear it.I mean if I dress like this guy http://www.flickr.com/photos/ianclamp/3050417557/

And you don't like it that is your problem not my problem.



Now if the mom or dad is forcing the kid to dress that way for faith than that is problem , but if the person wants to dress like that do to faith than the person should be allowed to.. You can't be discriminating some one race ,sex, age ,culture or faith or what ever the person what to dress like .

A strange way of reading my post to be sure, it's pretty obvious I was advocating the bus driver was wrong, you can always trust someone on revleft to completely misread your post though (I've been guilty of that at times too, it's true).

[Bud Struggle]

How would this be different under Anarchism or Communism? Is a Community or Soviet makes some rule for behavior in public and a person decides to violate the rule--wouldn't they face some sort of punishment?

[danyboy27]

o noez muslims might bomb the bus.

Do you think that all bus drivers bother doing that with everyone? Didn't think so tbh.

you know, its a procedure thing.
if the woman would have purchased a ticket or a normal 70 dollars bus pass she would have been allowed without any visual identification.

special pass such has elderly and studient bus pass require visual identification in order to avoid other people to use their pass.

[ls]

you know, its a procedure thing.
if the woman would have purchased a ticket or a normal 70 dollars bus pass she would have been allowed without any visual identification.

special pass such has elderly and studient bus pass require visual identification in order to avoid other people to use their pass.

And travel should be free, no?

[yuon]

How would this be different under Anarchism or Communism? Is a Community or Soviet makes some rule for behavior in public and a person decides to violate the rule--wouldn't they face some sort of punishment?

Idiot.

First, in a free society there wouldn't be any need for visual confirmation that a person is who they say they are, just so that they can use a free bus pass.

Second, in my sort of free society, there are not "rules" about behaviour in public as such. Instead, it is obvious that one shouldn't be anti-social. I would suggest that covering your face is not overly anti-social.

Third, why would you punish someone? Punishment is something we would hope to see the end of in a free society. Sure, if someone is anti-social continually, and, perhaps, actually hurting others, they might be asked to leave the community. But that isn't a "punishment" to them, so much as the right of the community to free association. The right not to associate with a particular individual.

Oh, the idiot remark was in particular reference to the first point. :closedeyes: :eek:

[Bud Struggle]

Idiot. Indeed! :)


First, in a free society there wouldn't be any need for visual confirmation that a person is who they say they are, just so that they can use a free bus pass. Unfortunately Socialist societies in the past have pretty regularly used uniformed officials with guns to ask it's citizenry to, "show us your papers" at the slightest provocation. And old habits are hard to break.


Second, in my sort of free society, there are not "rules" about behaviour in public as such. Instead, it is obvious that one shouldn't be anti-social. I would suggest that covering your face is not overly anti-social. Well that's in YOUR free society. Mine will be more regulated.


Third, why would you punish someone? Punishment is something we would hope to see the end of in a free society. Sure, if someone is anti-social continually, and, perhaps, actually hurting others, they might be asked to leave the community. But that isn't a "punishment" to them, so much as the right of the community to free association. The right not to associate with a particular individual. Well after the Revolution all of us Capitalists will be hard at work to bring back the good old days of Capitalism. You don't think your struggle will be over once the Revolution is won? Trotsky was right when he said there has to be permanent Revolution--because there certainly will be permanent counter-Revolution.


Oh, the idiot remark was in particular reference to the first point. :closedeyes: :eek: Fine.

[danyboy27]

And travel should be free, no?

Yeah, it should. But we don't live in Shouldland. Ah, Shouldland, where clean-cut kids cruise Shouldland Boulevard, and the Shouldland High football team gets their optimistic asses kicked by their cross-town rival, Reality Check Tech.

[Leninid]

i deeply and hatefully despise religious nuts of every sect or "belief", and consider people like that woman- assuming it is her choice to dress like that, which i reckon from what you posted it is- to be a psychopath who needs to be taken to a mental clinic as soon as possible.

dressing like that is plain retarded whichever way you see it. it is obeying to a medieval set of rules and vastly outdated and repressive "morals".

and i find it HILARIOUS that the person "yelling" that in their society there will be no rules about behaviour in public is supporting the barbaric, hideous, disgraceful, and plain disgusting "customs" and "morals" of religion (regardless of which religion we are talking about).

i don't mind people dressing like that for halloween. but anyone who dresses like that every day when going out because they think that if they don't god will punish them is SERIOUSLY imbalanced and needs urgent mental help.

[danyboy27]

i deeply and hatefully despise religious nuts of every sect or "belief", and consider people like that woman- assuming it is her choice to dress like that, which i reckon from what you posted it is- to be a psychopath who needs to be taken to a mental clinic as soon as possible.

dressing like that is plain retarded whichever way you see it. it is obeying to a medieval set of rules and vastly outdated and repressive "morals".

and i find it HILARIOUS that the person "yelling" that in their society there will be no rules about behaviour in public is supporting the barbaric, hideous, disgraceful, and plain disgusting "customs" and "morals" of religion (regardless of which religion we are talking about).

i don't mind people dressing like that for halloween. but anyone who dresses like that every day when going out because they think that if they don't god will punish them is SERIOUSLY imbalanced and needs urgent mental help.
agreed, but its their choice to dress like that and we shouldnt stop them from doing that.

[spice756]

That is why it is murky has the same reason the conservatives would like to ban hoodies ,head gear and do-rags for ID and anyone that has faith that has to dress a way do to faith .The conservatives say you cannot ID the person.

They have done this to pick on blacks wearing baggy clothes and do-rags and done this to pick on people who have a faith that is non christian .The ruling class has done this to pick on the poor that go to night clubs , bars , disco ,restaurant or fast food.

The dress code is all part of the ruling class and goverment conservatives views .

Look if police officer wants wear blue ripped jean , t-shirt and flip flops no socks on ,baseball cap backwards ,tattoos to work and long hair that is his or her right .If one wants to have other faith non christian that is his or her right .The person that dislikes muslims do to the way they dress is mocking some one faith even if the person does not mean it. It shows person is intolerant of one faith .

[ls]

Look if police officer wants wear blue ripped jean , t-shirt and flip flops no socks on ,baseball cap backwards ,tattoos to work and long hair that is his or her right .If one wants to have other faith non christian that is his or her right .The person that dislikes muslims do to the way they dress is mocking some one faith even if the person does not mean it. It shows person is intolerant of one faith .

Comrade, many a police officer with no socks on has been systematically discriminated against badly, often you can find them wearing their flip-flops backwards too and wearing fake long hair (extensions) to work along with slippers on their hands. They are good Christian people too, but are simply discriminated against extremely badly by the piggy Capitalist apparatus, it is our duty as leftists to clearly defend them from any & all scrutiny they get.

[spice756]

How would this be different under Anarchism or Communism? Is a Community or Soviet makes some rule for behavior in public and a person decides to violate the rule--wouldn't they face some sort of punishment?

No Communism and socialism = democracy

The USSR, China and North Korea and such are class rule of leader at times or CP that is corrupted.

The point of anti-faith in USSR, China and North Korea was not communist that don't believe in faith but scared of rebels in the church.

It is only modern communist that see the problem with faith.Most of the communist I know do not supress one faith and will not teach faith in school or promote it but not supress it. You cannot go around telling people what faith they should have or not that just wrong what the USSR did.

[danyboy27]

That is why it is murky has the same reason the conservatives would like to ban hoodies ,head gear and do-rags for ID and anyone that has faith that has to dress a way do to faith .The conservatives say you cannot ID the person.

They have done this to pick on blacks wearing baggy clothes and do-rags and done this to pick on people who have a faith that is non christian .The ruling class has done this to pick on the poor that go to night clubs , bars , disco ,restaurant or fast food.

The dress code is all part of the ruling class and goverment conservatives views .
.

sometimes i wonder if we live in the same country. i NEVER HEARD A SINGLE THING about banning x clothing yet in canada or at least in my province.

hell, the driver didnt even asked the women to stop wearing her burqua, he just asked to see her face if it match the damn bus pass.

i think i will never go to manitoba, the way you talk about it, sould like a shithole to me.

[danyboy27]

if someone call me a colonel senders, is that an insult?

KFC taste good anyway.

[ls]

Not as tasty as a dangerous anus like RGacky3.

[Jazzratt]

i deeply and hatefully despise religious nuts of every sect or "belief", and consider people like that woman- assuming it is her choice to dress like that, which i reckon from what you posted it is- to be a psychopath who needs to be taken to a mental clinic as soon as possible.

dressing like that is plain retarded whichever way you see it. it is obeying to a medieval set of rules and vastly outdated and repressive "morals".

and i find it HILARIOUS that the person "yelling" that in their society there will be no rules about behaviour in public is supporting the barbaric, hideous, disgraceful, and plain disgusting "customs" and "morals" of religion (regardless of which religion we are talking about).

i don't mind people dressing like that for halloween. but anyone who dresses like that every day when going out because they think that if they don't god will punish them is SERIOUSLY imbalanced and needs urgent mental help.

Consider this a verbal warning for prejuidiced language.


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[yuon]

Unfortunately Socialist societies in the past have pretty regularly used uniformed officials with guns to ask it's citizenry to, "show us your papers" at the slightest provocation. And old habits are hard to break.
Idiot. Sorry, when I said "free", did you mentally translate that to "'socialist' shit hole like the USSR"? Come on, a freaking free society, not a "show us your papers" fucking place. (Which, is what most of Europe is actually. Cops have guns and can, at any time, ask you for identification, and arrest you if you don't have any.)

Well that's in YOUR free society. Mine will be more regulated.
Yeah, but you don't want a free society, you want a shit hole.

Well after the Revolution all of us Capitalists will be hard at work to bring back the good old days of Capitalism. You don't think your struggle will be over once the Revolution is won? Trotsky was right when he said there has to be permanent Revolution--because there certainly will be permanent counter-Revolution.
You're a fucking idiot! I'm amazed you don't know what the fuck you are talking about considering you've been around for such a time.

[Bud Struggle]

Idiot. Sorry, when I said "free", did you mentally translate that to "'socialist' shit hole like the USSR"? Come on, a freaking free society, not a "show us your papers" fucking place. (Which, is what most of Europe is actually. Cops have guns and can, at any time, ask you for identification, and arrest you if you don't have any.) I was thinking more along the lines of the CNT or the EZLN.


Yeah, but you don't want a free society, you want a shit hole. I think it would take a LONG time to get to that point if it ever is achieved.


You're a fucking idiot! I'm amazed you don't know what the fuck you are talking about considering you've been around for such a time. Yea, I know the way you WANT them to be, and that's fine, but the yin and yang of human nature often causes conflicts that aren't easily erased. :)

[danyboy27]

Not as tasty as a dangerous anus like RGacky3.

i dont think its appropriate to associate gacky to an anus

[Bud Struggle]

i dont think its appropriate to associate gacky to an anus

I agree. We really need to keep debate civil around here with people whom we disagree. And on a personal note though I disagree with Gacky on about 99% of everything I hold his opinions in the highest regard. When it comes to REAL Communist there aren't many around here that I think would be true believers through fire of revolution.

But Gack's the real thing.

[ls]

i dont think its appropriate to associate gacky to an anus

Just like it wasn't appropriate to talk about colonel sanders in this thread. Consider this a sexual reputation point for flaming.

[Bud Struggle]

Just like it wasn't appropriate to talk about colonel sanders in this thread. Consider this a sexual reputation point for flaming.

Geez--don't pretend to be a freakin' mod. Move on.

[Jazzratt]

Just like it wasn't appropriate to talk about colonel sanders in this thread. Consider this a sexual reputation point for flaming.

If you flame or spam again I am giving you an infraction. Engage with the members here like a normal human being or fuck off back to chit chat.

[ls]

If you flame or spam again I am giving you an infraction. Engage with the members here like a normal human being or fuck off back to chit chat.

Tbh I was willing to engage in decent discussion provided the usual OI people (Bud Struggle being from the land of troll thus not a person ;) leaving only dan) here were not acting like chauvinist pigs, unfortunately dan is for some reason of moral uprightness or something pathetically shitty.


what do you think of the incident? i got mixed feeling about this, but i think the driver did the good thing.

So before unsubscribing and leaving this thread be;


Yeah, it should. But we don't live in Shouldland. Ah, Shouldland, where clean-cut kids cruise Shouldland Boulevard, and the Shouldland High football team gets their optimistic asses kicked by their cross-town rival, Reality Check Tech.

No we live in a cool land where discriminating against Muslims is considered normal/common and not always so straighcut like you keep making out, so you go ahead and applaud it. "Reality Check Tech" will certainly teach us all that them damn Muslims need to take them damn antisocial rags off their damn heads when demanded of them.

[Bud Struggle]

Tbh I was willing to engage in decent discussion provided the usual OI people (Bud Struggle being from the land of reality thus not a person...}


Corrected. :D

[danyboy27]

Tbh I was willing to engage in decent discussion provided the usual OI people (Bud Struggle being from the land of troll thus not a person ;) leaving only dan) here were not acting like chauvinist pigs, unfortunately dan is for some reason of moral uprightness or something pathetically shitty.


wow you are an assole




No we live in a cool land where discriminating against Muslims is considered normal/common and not always so straighcut like you keep making out, so you go ahead and applaud it. "Reality Check Tech" will certainly teach us all that them damn Muslims need to take them damn antisocial rags off their damn heads when demanded of them.
you really dont get it do you? she had a student pass with a picture of her on it, and in order to prevent theft and exploit a person who posses this pass must show her/his face to the driver, it have absolutly nothing to do with religion or national security.

my joke about shouldland is related to your idealistic vision of the future.
its okay to look foward for a future where everyone will have free transport and all, but the reality is, for now its not free.

in shouldland it would have been outreagous to not let someone pass beccause transport would be free, but we dont live in shouldland, for now we have to pay for our bus passes.

btw the woman had the alternative to pay with a ticket or cash, since it require no ID the driver would have let her pass.

[9]

i deeply and hatefully despise religious nuts of every sect or "belief", and consider people like that woman- assuming it is her choice to dress like that, which i reckon from what you posted it is- to be a psychopath who needs to be taken to a mental clinic as soon as possible.

dressing like that is plain retarded whichever way you see it. it is obeying to a medieval set of rules and vastly outdated and repressive "morals".

and i find it HILARIOUS that the person "yelling" that in their society there will be no rules about behaviour in public is supporting the barbaric, hideous, disgraceful, and plain disgusting "customs" and "morals" of religion (regardless of which religion we are talking about).

i don't mind people dressing like that for halloween. but anyone who dresses like that every day when going out because they think that if they don't god will punish them is SERIOUSLY imbalanced and needs urgent mental help.

This is the reaction of only the most snobbish western chauvinist swine, and it is pathetic to see such a profoundly reactionary view expressed on these forums by an unrestricted member - it is thoroughly shameful, even when considering the fact that it is coming from a Stalinoid bigot.
Your response speaks volumes about the contempt you undoubtedly have for the majority of workers in the Mid East, among other "non-Western" regions of the world, in addition to the Muslim minority populations of the western countries, which are subjected to some of the worst forms of discrimination thanks to the despicable privileged white chauvinism which your comment so clearly exemplifies.
Fucking disgusting.
And any "Marxist" who believes that religion is the product of individual "psychopathy" or mental disease as opposed to concrete material conditions, is not a Marxist at all.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

First of religion is vile and yes that includes Islam.
Second of the state and corporations are viler and allowing it to have the power to dictate who wheres what is quite frankly stupid. (For people who know the daily mail hype about hoodies I'm sure for example you understand that the same laws that would ban veils would be applied to hoodies and things would only get worse from there.

[Red Icepick]

Reactionary Islam needs to get squashed, and that means removal of burqas, an obviously oppressive garment. The Soviet Union made a wrong move in insisting that sort of thing cease in Afghanistan, as the Afghans expectedly did not want to hear it from a foreign invader, but I see no reason to tolerate that in a more modern and educated society.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Because your allowing the ruling class to dictate clothing?

[Module]

Third, why would you punish someone? Punishment is something we would hope to see the end of in a free society. Sure, if someone is anti-social continually, and, perhaps, actually hurting others, they might be asked to leave the community. But that isn't a "punishment" to them, so much as the right of the community to free association. The right not to associate with a particular individual.So people are only punished if they are 'continually' anti-social? So if I punched you in the face in a 'free society', you wouldn't do anything to me or expect anything to happen to me? What I murdered someone? Just one person.
I think there needs to be an element of deterrence in the way any society deals with anti-social behaviour.
To say 'if somebody hurts somebody we won't punish them, but if somebody keeps hurting others we'll ask them to leave' just sounds like such a flimsy and useless way of dealing with anti-social behaviour.

[9]

Reactionary Islam needs to get squashed, and that means removal of burqas, an obviously oppressive garment. The Soviet Union made a wrong move in insisting that sort of thing cease in Afghanistan, as the Afghans expectedly did not want to hear it from a foreign invader, but I see no reason to tolerate that in a more modern and educated society.

Yes, the enlightened Western capitalist class needs to liberate Islamic women from their savage culture. Are you that daft? Muslims are already victims of some of the worst oppression and discrimination in Western countries which, go figure, is the product of white Western chauvinism, not Islamic religious oppression! That you are advocating for the white Western bourgeoisie to enact insanely paternalistic legislation which exclusively targets one of the most victimized minorities in the Western world, and in the name of liberation from oppression of all things, is demonstrative of your own raging chauvinism.

[Bud Struggle]

I guess as I'm thinking over this thread it it seems that there's a tug of war going on for Muslem women. The Muslem men want them to wear the burqua and we non Muslems (men) don't want them to wear the burqua. In the end it's got to be the choice of the women in question. If they want to be liberated--like in all wars of liberation that actually work--they have to liberate themselves.

It is just as bad for non Moslem men to hold forth and say "no burquas" as it is for the Muslem men to require burquas--in fact it's worse because we should know better. If indeed as the Marxist claim religion is a matter of economic and social factors then the burqua will disappear after the Revolution on it's own--so why force anyone to do what they don't want to do?

It's best if we all leave one another alone to live as we choose.

[Richard Nixon]

i deeply and hatefully despise religious nuts of every sect or "belief", and consider people like that woman- assuming it is her choice to dress like that, which i reckon from what you posted it is- to be a psychopath who needs to be taken to a mental clinic as soon as possible.

dressing like that is plain retarded whichever way you see it. it is obeying to a medieval set of rules and vastly outdated and repressive "morals".

and i find it HILARIOUS that the person "yelling" that in their society there will be no rules about behaviour in public is supporting the barbaric, hideous, disgraceful, and plain disgusting "customs" and "morals" of religion (regardless of which religion we are talking about).

i don't mind people dressing like that for halloween. but anyone who dresses like that every day when going out because they think that if they don't god will punish them is SERIOUSLY imbalanced and needs urgent mental help.

So you don't believe despite what rhetoric in religious freedom, eh? If you've banned the burqa and treat people who wear them as mentally ill what's next: hijabs, yarmulkes, capitalists, any religious people? Will they all be treated as mentally ill?

[spice756]

i deeply and hatefully despise religious nuts of every sect or "belief", and consider people like that woman- assuming it is her choice to dress like that, which i reckon from what you posted it is- to be a psychopath who needs to be taken to a mental clinic as soon as possible.

dressing like that is plain retarded whichever way you see it. it is obeying to a medieval set of rules and vastly outdated and repressive "morals".

and i find it HILARIOUS that the person "yelling" that in their society there will be no rules about behaviour in public is supporting the barbaric, hideous, disgraceful, and plain disgusting "customs" and "morals" of religion (regardless of which religion we are talking about).

i don't mind people dressing like that for halloween. but anyone who dresses like that every day when going out because they think that if they don't god will punish them is SERIOUSLY imbalanced and needs urgent mental help


This just shows you are intolerant of some one faith or culture.Look I know atheist and communist despise faith and culture has backwards.But when you go around like Stalin burning the church and books that sone one have faith than your atheist is religion.Yes your religion is atheist .

Putting her in mental hospital for not being atheist .You know that if there was no Muslims or Islams and just white people dressing like that not for faith but fad like the street punk look and gothic look of the 70's and 80's there would be no debate here.

It is intolerant of some one faith or culture.What is with hardcore atheist and communist burning the church and books.

[Module]

You know that if there was no Muslims or Islams and just white people dressing like that not for faith but fad like the street punk look and gothic look of the 70's and 80's there would be no debate here.If that fad involved women hiding every part of their body except their eyes and hands then you're right, there would be no debate - it would be condemned by everyone. Because it's a 'faith', however, suddenly this repulsive misogyny is something worth respecting.
Give me a break...
I don't agree with Leninid saying Muslims, or anybody who follows any religion, needs 'urgent mental help', of course one needs to understand the nature of religion and in what form it exists in certain societies and cultures. I also don't agree that anyone should be 'banned' from wearing any type of clothing they wish. But I absolutely don't agree that we should be treating something like Islam like it's 'just another culture'. It isn't.

[spice756]

If that fad involved women hiding every part of their body except their eyes and hands then you're right, there would be no debate - it would be condemned by everyone. Because it's a 'faith', however, suddenly this repulsive misogyny is something worth respecting.
Give me a break...
I don't agree with Leninid saying Muslims, or anybody who follows any religion, needs 'urgent mental help', of course one needs to understand the nature of religion and in what form it exists in certain societies and cultures. I also don't agree that anyone should be 'banned' from wearing any type of clothing they wish. But I absolutely don't agree that we should be treating something like Islam like it's 'just another culture'. It isn't.

True it is some one faith and communist and atheist has to allow people faith .I'm not saying all atheist are like this but some hardcore atheist and hardcore communists really hate people who have faith .Just like the born again that try to go around and covert people to try to save their soul and some hardcore atheist try to go around bashing people faith or culture that does not fit into their atheist world.

This debate has come up many times here by hardcore atheist and hardcore communist that think communism and atheist is a faith .

And If my dad or mom had faith I don't deed some communist party member saying they are going to ban religion.